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Lyr Req: The Sun Shines Fair on Carlisle Wall

DigiTrad:
CRUEL MOTHER
THE CRUEL MOTHER
THE CRUEL MOTHER (4)
THE CRUEL MOTHER 2
WELLA, WELLA


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GUEST,Xie Kitchen 30 Oct 03 - 07:42 PM
Malcolm Douglas 30 Oct 03 - 08:42 PM
Xie Kitchen 31 Oct 03 - 04:50 AM
Xie Kitchen 31 Oct 03 - 04:51 AM
Nerd 31 Oct 03 - 01:03 PM
Xie Kitchen 31 Oct 03 - 03:39 PM
masato sakurai 08 Nov 04 - 04:48 AM
GUEST,Xie Kitchen 21 Mar 05 - 07:35 PM
masato sakurai 19 Sep 07 - 08:31 AM
Stewie 19 Sep 07 - 06:40 PM
GUEST,David 13 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM
Mick Pearce (MCP) 13 Dec 11 - 08:29 PM
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Subject: help: "& the lion is the king of all"?
From: GUEST,Xie Kitchen
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 07:42 PM

i recently saw Alasdair Roberts live - it was the first time i'd seen him or heard his music & he did 5 traditional songs with a supernatural leaning. i've figured out (i think) what 4 of the 5 are (Lord Gregory, Fair Margaret & Sweet William, Lowlands & The Wife of Usher's Well), but (typically) the one that i can't get (what i remember of it) out of my head is still unknown to me & i wondered if anyone here could help.

having only heard the song once i am struggling to remember the lyrics, but part of the chorus had the line "& the lion is the king of all"

in case people here aren't familiar with him here are some links to reviews of his first album of traditional songs (i've looked them up too, in case one was the one i'm looking for)

http://www.secretlycanadian.com/secretlycanadian/catalog/sc48.htm
http://www.adequacy.net/reviews/r/alasdairroberts.shtml

& there's a session from a French radio station here:

http://prevot.denis.free.fr/Alasdair.htm

thanks in advance to anyone who can help..


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 30 Oct 03 - 08:42 PM

It'll be a form of The Cruel Mother, I should think. Walter Scott based his It was an English Ladye Bright, in The Lay of the Last Minstrel, on it, and quoted this verse:

She lean'd her back against a thorn,
The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa':
And there she has her young babe born
And the lyon shall be lord of a'

The only recording I know of with that refrain is by Linda Adams, and appears on the Fellside CD Ballads (FECD 110, 1997). She learned it from one of her schoolteachers, an Ann Dickens. Where Ms. Dickens got it we do not know (no sign of it in Child or Bronson) but apparently a form of it appeared in Sidney Gilpin's Songs and Ballads of Cumberland (1866). I don't know where else you'd find it.


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Xie Kitchen
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 04:50 AM

thank you so much! i just looked up It was an English Ladye Bright & i remember the part "The sun shines fair on Carlisle wall" quite clearly

http://eir.library.utoronto.ca/rpo/display/poem1819.html

i'll try & find Linda Adams The Sun Shines Fair (Cruel Mother) as it appears Alaisdar Roberts hasn't recorded/released a version of it. was the tune in her version similar to this one?



thanks again!


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Xie Kitchen
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 04:51 AM

was the tune in her version similar to this one?

http://media.mudcat.org/MIDI/CRUELMO2.MID


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Nerd
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 01:03 PM

Also, Silly Wizard recorded it on their first album in 1976. It will be on the "Early Years" CD. As I recall, it's one of the only songs they recorded on which Andy is not the main singer. Either Gordon or Martin (can't remember) was the singer.


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Xie Kitchen
Date: 31 Oct 03 - 03:39 PM

thanks i'll try & check that out too..


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Subject: Lyr Add: THE SUN SHINES FAIR ON CARLISLE WALL
From: masato sakurai
Date: 08 Nov 04 - 04:48 AM

I saw recently a version quite similar to Linda Adams' "The Sun Shines Fair" in a Japanese article, which says that it is from Henry W. Longfellow, ed., Poems of Places (ENGLAND I), [1876], pp. 126-128. Does this come from Sidney Gilpin's Songs and Ballads of Cumberland?
THE SUN SHINES FAIR ON CARLISLE WALL

SHE leaned her head against a thorn,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
And there she has her young babe born,
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

"Smile no sae sweet, my bonnie babe,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
An ye smile sae sweet ye'll smile me dead,"
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

She's howket a grave by the light o' the moon,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
And there she's buried her sweet babe in,
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

As she was going to the church,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
She saw a sweet babe in the porch,
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

"O bonnie babe, an ye were mine,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
I'd clead you in silk and sabelline,"--
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

"O mother mine, when I was thine,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
To me ye were na half sae kind,
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.

"But now I'm in the heavens hie,
   The sun shines fair on Carlisle wa';
And ye have the pains of hell to dree"--
   And the lyon shall be lord of a'.
                     
                               Anonymous


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: GUEST,Xie Kitchen
Date: 21 Mar 05 - 07:35 PM

just thought i'd update to say that the song is on Alasdair Roberts new album "No Earthly Man" & in the liner notes it says that it is (as Nerd had said) adapted from Andy Stewarts version for Silly Wizard, though the lyrics in Roberts version are "mostly a composite of three sources.." the Silly Wizard version "Carlisle Wall", on their 1976 self titled LP, .."a version recorded in 1975 by the Aberdeen born singer Lizzie Higgins, & particularly in regard to the final dialogue section, an English version by Shirley Collins on her 1967 Topic Records LP the Sweet Primeroses".

thanks again for the help, & in case anyone is interested Ali Roberts is doing some gigs in the UK & Europe from then end of March to the end of May. dates here:

http://www.dragcity.com/tours.html


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: masato sakurai
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 08:31 AM

It is highly probable that Longfellow's version (see above) is from Sydney Gilpin, ed., The Songs and Ballads of Cumberland (1866, pp. 497-98).


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Subject: RE: help: '& the lion is the king of all'?
From: Stewie
Date: 19 Sep 07 - 06:40 PM

Linda Adams' version of 'Sun Shines Fair' is available on CD: Various Artists 'Ballads' Fellside FECD110.

--Stewie.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Sun Shines Fair on Carlisle Wall
From: GUEST,David
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 03:18 PM

I found this, might it be some kind of adaption of Sir Walter Scotts?

http://josvg.home.xs4all.nl/cits/lm/lorecd104.html


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: The Sun Shines Fair on Carlisle Wall
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 08:29 PM

It seems so - on the site you link it says: This song is based on Sir Walter Scott's poem It was an English Ladye Bright.

Mick


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