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BS: Child poverty in the UK
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BS: Child poverty in the UK |
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Subject: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Nov 03 - 08:49 AM Latest figures from Barnardos Charity on child poverty in the UK show that over 0ne third of Children in the UK are living below the poverty line,information taken from government figures, the figures for northern Ireland show more than half are below the poverty line. I have been told by various `catters that the "troubles" in the north of Ireland contributed to their decline in living standards, as the only wars in Britain have been snow ball fights how does this account for the serious decline across the dub. It would be interesting to learn from our `catters living outside the UK, figures for their various countries. Ard Mhacha |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: greg stephens Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:00 AM ard macha:interested in your use of "dub", I presume from your context you mean the Irish Sea. Not a term I've heard used in that way, i am used to using"pond" for the Irish Sea or the Atlantic. But I do know the word dub, but I've never heard it outside the English lake district. And it means "pond". Is it also used in Ireland, then? Is it a common word? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Dave Bryant Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:31 AM After allowing for inflation, I'm sure that my childhood would have been well below the current poverty line. I was never short of food (good solid fare, but no choice) or clothes (sometimes with the odd patch or darn - and definitely not designer or fashion), but I never felt deprived. I'm sure that must go for many other mudcatters. I never ever had a brand new bicycle, but I had a series of serviceable second hand ones. One of my colleagues is about to buy his 12 year old a new off-road motor bike for Chistmas. How much of what we now define as poverty is the result of much higher expectations, or spending money on expensive junk food, designer goods, or uneccessary consumer luxury items ? Sometimes the "When I was a lad" sketch begins to seem more like the truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Beverley Barton Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:35 AM it's not like me to be serious, but i agree with dave b.when i was a lad my mother would take to jumble sales to get "new" clothes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Mark Clark Date: 13 Nov 03 - 09:59 AM According to the Hearts & Minds Web site …
- Mark |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Nov 03 - 10:43 AM Greg, not too many here would use it, but, the use of the word wouldn`t raise too many eyebrows. I knew that the US had nothing to boast about regarding child poverty, but these figures are a disgrace to any country that spend billions on futile wars. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Peace Date: 13 Nov 03 - 10:47 AM Alberta (which is one of the richer provinces in Canada) has a child poverty rate of over 14%. When it began to get over 14%, government simply raised the index. Disgusting, huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Wolfgang Date: 13 Nov 03 - 11:14 AM The number of people living in poverty is a question of definition and these definitions can vary between countries, so they are difficult to compare. In comparison to third world countries or to Germany 150 years ago there is nearly no child poverty in Germany. If we consider people living on social security money only as poor then in Germany (80 Million inhabitants) we have 1 Million children living on what the country considers the minimum amount to live. 2 Million more children live on not much more. That's a too big number, but I doubt that the number of children going to bed hungry is anywhere near the figures cited above. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Ebbie Date: 13 Nov 03 - 11:45 AM Those figures for the US are wildly misleading. If they were even close to being true, there would have to be a tremendously large number of people starving or on the borderline in the inner cities. I have no experience or knowledge of that. But I know it's not true of the hinterlands, or of the vast majority across the country. 40% of homeless people are children and families? 25% of children in the US live below the poverty line? 25% of children are hungry or at the risk of being hungry? It's just not true. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Ebbie Date: 13 Nov 03 - 11:49 AM From Poverty Awareness Month: "Although poverty rates declined slightly from 1999 to 2000, more than 32 million Americans still live in poverty. The breadth of poverty includes farm families, immigrants, the working poor, undereducated adults, the disabled poor and children of all ages. One out of every six children in America lives in poverty. The U.S. Census Bureau considers the poverty threshold for a family of four to be $17,184. Other studies have shown that Americans believe it takes closer to $35,000 annually to adequately house, clothe and feed a family of four." There's a big leap from being "poor" to being "hungry". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Eric the Viking Date: 13 Nov 03 - 03:57 PM In a school with 109 pupils with various special needs 73% are on free school meals and milk (wlfare in the USA?) Of the other 23% most only skip above qualifying for free meals/food coupons etc.With one parent working above minimum wage. (We have about 3 children from affluent middle class families, 1 who has a nanny and working professional adults Some of our children go to bed hungry, that is to say regularly have no adequate meal at tea time,many come to school hungry, having had no breakfast-many without the opportunity to have it.(Quite a few turn up eating crisps and a fizzy drink to start the day).Very many of our children do not get new clothes even on special occasions, that includes many of our muslim children, who get second hand even at Eid.Some of course get regular new clothes. An example, but reasonably typical; Gemma is 14 years old. She lives with her father who is on prescribed methodone and benefits.She has a bedroom she shares with her younger sister, but they share the bed. In the time I have known her, she has never had a new toy or clothing, even at Christmas or birthday. She did a work experiene at the local Oxfam and was presented with a set of clothing before she started so she could look smart. She never has breakfast, eats bread and jam for tea, the only hot cooked food she gets is school dinner and very occasionally a McDonalds when she goes to visit her mum.She has learning difficulties,being slow at learning-nothing else. She is hardly ever washed, comes to school with nits and dirty. She is one of the nicest,well behaved children in our school. I could bring her home! When I got her a Christmas present the other year (A doll in a box) she told me it was the nicest thing she had ever had. She still talks to me about it, she says she dare not take it out of the box in case it gets spoiled.She is amongst the hardest working children in our school, tries and tries and is making only slow progress. She will leave school in 18 months time at the age of 16 with no support for the rest of her life. Please do not underestimate the rate of child poverty in the UK, you need to look for it and you will find it, even close to the wealthy areas and leafy glades. I know of families like this up and down the country, many in the rural areas as well as inner cities. Dave Bryant is quite wrong when he compares levels of poverty with higher expectations,the comparison is falsely based on the expectation that all (generalisation) people have the trappings of the social climate;washing machine, TV video, games station/computer, car, designer clothes and eat junk food. It just isn't so for many, and believe it or not, the poor have a right to expect these things as well, without it changing their status.It is an easy thing to say, that "they" and their children could live better if "they" didn't drink, smoke, go to the pub etc and that "we" (generalisation) would logically re-prioritise to increase our standard of living, but life doesn't work that way does it? If so many are living on the bread line, then ther must be even more, lying pretty close to it, and not counted in official figures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: ard mhacha Date: 13 Nov 03 - 04:47 PM Eric, Thank you for spelling it out, you are right when you say, don`t underestimate the level of child poverty in the UK, school teachers have told me of children at their schools like little Gemma. Barnardos hardly went to the trouble of compiling this report if it couldn`t be substantiated. Certainly we are not at the level of third world standards, but leaving the task of elimanating this poverty to the various governments is going to be a slow process, the odd kick up the rump from charities such as Bernardos may make them move. Ard Mhacha. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: GUEST Date: 13 Nov 03 - 05:05 PM Eric's examples do not contradict Dave's comments. The fact that some people are in that state does not mean that everybody officially classified as "poor" are in that state. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 13 Nov 03 - 08:25 PM It's possible to be fat and malnourished. In fact undernourished, in the sense of lacking necessary food substances. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Eric the Viking Date: 14 Nov 03 - 03:09 PM Guest-no it doesn't, but it does mean that those that are classed as "poor" have the (generally) lowest standards of living conditions and often nutrition, lowest standards of expectation and chance of achievement or bettering their situation.Most of the working poor work far harder for much less than many others. Gemma isn't the worst case scenario I know. There are children who live in squallor, who use the floor as the toilet and put paper down to cover it.They have no bed, just second hand settes/sofas, no doors inside their houses,bags full of old stuff that's hoarded and fills the rooms-just as often seen on TV programmes like "life of grime".No possessions that are "nice". Many of the children at my school, do not have a change of clothes, they sleep in them, go to school in them all week, they don't know how to wash, and they feed on what is available if there is something. Their parents are inadequate and lacking in education and skills.Of course not all the "poor" are like that, and many are very hard working, clean, have good skills and only trapped by their situation, that's why it's called the poverty trap. It is very difficult to climb out of it. There is very little true support, money would not be the only answer, but it would help. The social services are stretched, under funded and understaffed, same as education that is curriculum loaded, target driven and really ignoring the real and desparate needs of the children "we" make such fine words about caring for. As a country, "we" have this act. this law, this much money spent on education/welfare etc and many fine words are said about what "we" do for the poor/needy/young and elderly (do not forget the poor conditions many elderly people live in)But in reality it comes down to a small workforce trying to cope with an overwhelming tide as the gap between the rich and poor continues to grow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Richard Bridge Date: 14 Nov 03 - 07:28 PM Dave, I used to be (indeed I may still be) the honorary legal adviser to the All-Wheel-Drive Club. A 12-year old with an off-road motorcycle? Don't walk, run to the nearest branch of the Trail Riders' Fellowship, who can advise as to the legalities and safety of using motorcycles on anything other than stricly private land you have permision to use. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: mg Date: 15 Nov 03 - 12:01 AM Eric the Viking..you must insist that the school nurse, if there is one, or male and female volunteers from the professional community, screened etc...immediately conduct seminars/classes etc on hygeine..acknowledging to the children that their circumstances are exceptionally difficult, but that they must find ways to wash. if there is any water, a bit of soap, and a bucket they can wash themselves and their clothes. Don't spend one more minute on academics until this is done. Is there a school gym with showers? Can you contact a more prosperous school, explain the circumstances, and ask for clothes their children have outgrown....Tell them that there are ways around these problems...it is of course up to the adults for the small children, but the older children and teens in horrid circumstances are capable of doing some helpful things..certainly washing their clothes, sewing on patches etc. Someone at the school needs to step up to the plate and start some home economics/hygeine and health classes. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: Child poverty in the UK From: Peace Date: 15 Nov 03 - 05:09 PM Eric the Viking: Mary's suggestions are more than worthwhile. I've worked as a teacher in some fairly destitute districts. In one school (where is not important) I contacted some teachers in another school district that was better off. They went to their parents and students' council and explained the problem. Within a month, we had scads of clothing and shoes coming in. Some was new and some was nearly new. As far as I know, there is still an exchange of information going on. The hygiene issue should involve both parents and kids. Schools seem to get it all the time, but an American outlaw (whose name I forget) said when asked why he robbed banks: "I rob banks because that's where the money is!" The kids are in the school, and that's a good place to begin effecting change. Also, I would expect that there is a Teachers' Association of some sort. They may be able to give you some direction as to where to look and how to ask for the help your school needs. Don't underestimate the willingness of the general public or some of the larger (and smaller) stores to help. People are often quite willing. They just may not know the need is there. Also, trucking companies are often willing to haul the stuff when they are underloaded or deadheading. Check that out, too. A committee works well on this type of effort. Keep in touch. Bruce |
