BS: French blockade of Calais - again!

Subject: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Arnie
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 11:28 AM

If it's Christmas, must be time for the French fishermen to blockade Calais again - and right on cue their little fishing boats have sailed into Calais harbour. All ferry sailings from Dover cancelled today (Weds) and possibly same again tomorrow. French authorities doing sod all about it as usual. Thousands of Brits who has planned a day off for a booze cruise now find their shopping plans wrecked. Ferry and transport companies losing thousands of pounds - lorries stacked all the way up the M20. Why do the French fishermen pick on us Brits? It's not our fault their fishing quotas are being cut - why not blockade the naval base at St Lazaire? - bet the French Gov't would soon take action then! Why did we ever give Calais back to the French??? Maybe we should take it back again......

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Dec 03 - 07:33 PM

Unfortunately Calais was lost by the incompetance/prejudice of Queen (Bloody) Mary.

Equally unfortunatley the most effective method of dealling with the French is not open to us - but a 4.5 brick into the hull of a French fishing boat would do the job.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: LadyJean
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 12:21 AM

Zut!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 05:41 AM

We usually creep into Calais via the back route ie use "Le Shuttle" which brings us in at Coquelles. We popped over there last week and should have enough vino etc to see us at least to Easter. As long as any blockade stops the froggies coming over here - I couldn't care less.

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: GUEST,Strollin' Johnny
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 06:26 AM

Absoluement mon ami!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: GUEST,deltalady
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:19 PM

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: GUEST,Deltalady
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:25 PM

If we Brits continue to buy second ! homes in France maybe we can take it over! Its a lovely country - shame about the people ~!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Arnie
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 01:33 PM

Well Dave, no-one crept into Calais by the back door today (Thurs) 'cos the French strikers blocked off the Channel Tunnel as well as the port!!! However, this is a different bunch of strikers to yesterday - this lot are from the seaman's union protesting over their jobs being given to foreigners. Once again, nothing to do with us Brits but hey, when did the French ever need an excuse to stick one to the Brits? Good job I stocked up last month - hic!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 07:08 PM

It doesn't take much for the Franco phobia to start up.
It is worth mentioning that these French fishermen, like many of their Scots counterparts are on the verge of losing their boats and their livelihood. I would imagine that they have more on their minds than upsetting the odd bonglie who wants to avoid paying duty on their plonk.

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Gareth
Date: 11 Dec 03 - 07:42 PM

Strupag

If them French Fishermen had not completely overfished thier waters with fine mesh beam trawls they might not now be facing a complete destruction of thier industry.

Whilst sailing out in Whitstable Bay some years ago I watched a French Flagged Trawler (1 - 1/half mile out) come straight down a set of Lobster Pots, alter course and scoop another set.

I did not fancy trying to play dodgems 1 ton of fiberglass versus 20 tons of steel is not gaurenteed to ensure your survivel.

I did not carry a radio in those days 1990, all I could do was report it latter. HM Coast Guard could only log it.

No, don't accuse me of Francophobia. I've seen the Bastards at work.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Linda Kelly
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 03:47 PM

am I alone in liking the French?

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: jimmyt
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 04:04 PM

I like their fries, dressing and toast

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: GUEST,la guest
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 05:28 PM

I like their perfume, knickers and maid's outfits.

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 06:28 PM

Wow Gareth,
I certainly am accusing you of Franco phobia.
If you have seen one example of a French boat trawling through creels then you have seen what many Hull, Peterhead, Falmouth and even Milford trawlers have often done.
There is often a conflict between trawlers and creel men irrespective of nationality.
If you think that a trawler would purposely trawl through lobster pot fleets then you are showing that you have no idea about fishing. Do you realise just how much damage that a fleet of creels can do to a net?
I would re-phrase my original language and say that I've just seen an outburst of open racism in this thread.
Now as far as this crap about fine mesh beam trawls; Are you sure you are talking about the French or could it be the Dutch or maybe the Cornish. When I worked in Lorient it the fishing industry I saw many inspectors checking mesh size. I didn't see many Spannish ones in the Basque country though.
The facts are that the French have exclusive historic rights to fish in, what could be described as Scottish waters. They used more conservation minded methods and still have a viable fishery in certain areas.
There's not a country in coastal Europe that cannot be accused of over fishing. I, along with most fishermen, agree that cuts have got to be made. The reality, however, is that your labour cronies, gave away valuable consessions to both the Danish and Spannish in the last agreement.
There are massive stocks of haddock in the North Sea but the Scots fishermen are not allowed to catch them as there might be the odd cod in the net. In the meantime the Danes are allowed to carry out industrial fishing (sweeping up masses of small pout and all other varieties of immature fish).
The Danes and Spannisn have dedicates fisheries ministers while our crowd have fishing tacked on Agriculture.
I think that calling French "froggies" or "Bastards" is racist not worthy of this website.

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Gareth
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 07:33 PM

Then Strupag I shall repeat myself "No, don't accuse me of Francophobia. I've seen the Bastards at work"

I watched him. It was deliberate.

Incidently - What Milford Trawlers ? There are virtually none left.

There are very few creelers/potters or inshore boats left on the Kent Coast.

And yes I do know about Net costs, and the practice of only producing one net for inspection.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 12 Dec 03 - 08:18 PM

There is still a big Milford fleet. I happened to see a big Milford trawler today in Mallaig. The crew all spoke Spannish but that's because a certain labour government did not take a stand about the common fisheries policy and allowed the flagship rulling to go ahead. One should ask the question why Spannish owned Milford trawlers can make a living while Welsh owned ones cannot.
As for your twin net theory, I think you under estimate the integrity of our british fishery protection officers. Do you think that the French can haul, stow and re-set another net faster than it takes the "bobbies" can reach a boat. The FO's also have the authority to search a boat. A net is a hard thing to hide in a hurry.

One more thing! Lobsters live in rocky ground and trawlers and beamers avoid this terain as much as possible. You cannot tow a beam or a trawl through a rocky bottom otherwise you would damage your nets even more that of catching a fleet of creels in it.

You should get over to Brittanny more often. They are really nice people and many of them can even understand Welsh!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: GUEST,la guest
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 03:36 PM

Joyeaux Noel!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Gareth
Date: 13 Dec 03 - 07:11 PM

Strupag - BALLS !

Lobsters are found on rocky ground. Agreed. They are also found on the Kent Flats. If they were not there why would local fishermen set pots to take Lobsters and Whelks.

If your version was correct can you explain your comments - If you have seen one example of a French boat trawling through creels then you have seen what many Hull, Peterhead, Falmouth and even Milford trawlers have often done.
There is often a conflict between trawlers and creel men irrespective of nationality"

How is this possible if creels/pots are only laid by rocks and other 'fasts' which are death to purse or beam trawls ???

From my years of living, sailing and drinking in Whitstable, I can happily say that there are no problems between the fishermen of Whitstable, Faversham, and the Medway be they potters, trawlers, drudgers, and charter boats. And they were happy to live with the conservation boxes (No fishing other than with hooks) in the Thames Estuary.

Next point.

You missed the point - your quote was "When I worked in Lorient it the fishing industry I saw many inspectors checking mesh size.

French Inspectors in a French Port ????????? And did they take any action ??? If so that would be unique in the history of EU law and French practice.

I have every admiration for our Fishery Protection Officers, would that there were more of them, and that they had fuller powers.

Don't accuse me of prejudice, I can justify my views, your comments on the Cornish, Dutch, Spanish etc. betray your closet (not an SP) mind set.

The question of Spanish crewed but UK registered vessels, has been well thrashed out in the courts. Unfortunatley it is legal.

There are no trawlers, other than inshore vessels opperating now out of Milford. If there were they would be open to inspection when they put into port.

Finally, which Government signed away our inshore waters to the EU - Does the name Heath ring a bell ? Sounds a bit like that old wail "It's Scotlands Oil !" Tho the good burghers of the Shetland might disagree !

But on overfishing, mexh sises, and recording the catch I might agree with you that any Spanish Trawler should be sunk on sighting.

On a more serious point, tho it's one you have not raised, quota's are a joke. What is needed is more and fully enforced conservation boxes. And this is the problem, getting the EU to agree and enforce them.

Gareth

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 05:43 AM

Gareth,
Creels and pots are used to catch more things that just lobsters.
Prawn (nephrop) creels are laid in mud, often in the same ground that prawn trawlers use and, although there is a lot of co-operation with both types of fishermen, the odd conflict does often flare up.
I was going to let this lie but I'm fascinated as to what a Purse trawl is.
If you mean purse seiner which catch pelagic fish then you will be happy to know that, to the best of my knowledge, there are no pursers left in these waters. They have all converted over to big pelagic trawls and fish hundreds of miles away from Yachties and creel men.
My comments on Dutch and Cornish fishermen referred to areas where I believe that the beam trawl is used. The Dutch have the biggest beam trawl fleet in Europe but there are quite a few beamers out of Falmouth. The beam trawl is rarely, if ever, used by Scottish fleets.I am not condeming of justifying its use.
I have always opposed the method of industrial fishing used by some of the Danes and was horrified, a few years ago, that they were using fish oil to fuel power stations.
You then go on and ramble about "Scotland's Oil" and suggest something about the Shetlanders.
I have always admired the free and independant nature of Shetlanderts but the last time I was up there the island was anministered by the Scottish Executive. Are you suggesting that some parts of the UK should break up while others should not?
It's rich that someone who would "put a 4.5 brick into the hull of a French fishing boat" and says,"any Spanish Trawler should be sunk on sighting" accuses me of having a closet mind set.
Finally; Heath's action in the 60's was truly shamefull but why have no UK governments since used their powers to withdraw from the Comon Fisheries Policy?

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 06:10 AM

Strupag, I'll stay out of the argument about boats and fishing as I know nowt about either!

But I must take you up on the point It is worth mentioning that these French fishermen, like many of their Scots counterparts are on the verge of losing their boats and their livelihood.

It is not just the French and Scots that are loosing their livelihoods. What about the English fleets that have already gone? What about the English ones that are about to go? Besides, the whole point is why the hell are the French making their point by taking it out on the English?

Don't go acusing anyone of being racist and then have a go at the English (Who wrote the odd bonglie who wants to avoid paying duty on their plonk. ?). Just because your language is a little more veiled does not make you any less racist!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Wotcha
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 06:24 AM

To quote the singing of Canadian-based group The Finest Kind lamenting the Canadian Maritimes decline:


Out beyond the harbour reach,

Boats stand dried up on the beach,

Empty now the fish are gone ...

No more fish, no fishermen."

Cheers,
Brian

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 15 Dec 03 - 06:32 AM

Perhaps we all ought to start doing our regular long-bow practice again !

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Gareth
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:03 AM

Strupag -

1/. Purse Trawl - traditional open mouth trawl, these days worked in the South East. Often as pair trawled .

2/. Also used in "stow" fishing, setting against the tide flow.

I see you have agreed the point on potting.

Sorry if I have hit a sore point on "Scotlands Oil" - I am old enough to remember the counterblast "It's Shetlands Oil"

I suggest that your efforts would be better served on stock conservation rather than bleating about the poor french fishermen who to a large extent were responsible for thier own problems.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Beverley Barton
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 05:19 AM

The French are very,very naughty boys! I dislike them and their grubby ways too!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 06:30 AM

Dave, I apologise for the use of the word "bonglie". I don't really know what it means and I assure you it ws not meant to be racist.
Many years ago now, I fished on Hull and Grimsby trawlers and it greaves me as much as any Englishman as to what happened to these fleets. What was even worse was that the big companies like Marrs' and Boyds got large decommisioning grants while the fisnermen who served them for a lifetime got nothing.
I am always, surprised that many Englishmen always see French protests as being nothing other than taking a swipe at the Brits.
Calais is the obvious and most effective target for protesters as it one of the main crossroads in Europe.Their actions probably affect French, and Belgian people just as much as British
Why our lorry drivers don't blockade Dover more often in protest to the price of fuel escapes me.
And Garath. as Croc Dundee nearly said once, That's not a purse net,this is a purse net

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:30 AM

Our lorry drivers don't blockade Dover because it would be an illegal act just as what the French fishermen are doing is. The big difference is that our government, just as any other government in Europe, would do something about it. The French government will not. Perhaps the word capitulate is high on the agenda in Paris?

As far as I am aware one private vessel impeding the passage of another is still an act of piracy. I believe it would be a proper course of action to send gunships to ensure the safe passage of our ships. Then we could invade France. And possibly Austria. Or Poland...;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Strupag
Date: 16 Dec 03 - 08:42 PM

Don't forget Luxembourg Dave! Think of the damage these folk did, with high powered electromagnetic waves, to our youth over a long period of time!

Subject: RE: BS: French blockade of Calais - again!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 17 Dec 03 - 03:42 AM

I woz one of dem yoofs and it dun me no hamr...