Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Big Tim
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:33 PM

I still love singing the Catholic hymns that I learned as a child, eg, Faith of Our Fathers, even though I no longer have the slightest tincture of religious faith.

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Pied Piper
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:29 PM

I don't have any problem singing hymns even though I'm a vehament Athiest.
I play Pipes at a lot of funerals and some times I stop in through the service, and not to stand up and sing in the hymns would be disrespectfull.

"I've known atheists who would do practically anything for money"

Whareas the new age cristal waving, crop circling mudcat Sanyasi do everything for higher reasons and would not soil there hands with the petty trinkets of Maya.

TTFN
PP

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 12:16 PM

Don't see why not. Lots of those who profess to be "Christian" and aren't sing 'em.

'Tain't what ya believe, but what ya live, that matters.

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Willie-O
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 08:41 AM

Sure we do Freda. We take 'em whenever we like and there are no social obligations attached. ;)=

Willie-O

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: freda underhill
Date: 22 Dec 03 - 07:49 AM

..i wanted to become an athiest, but they don't have any holidays.

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Ebbie
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 06:42 PM

"I grabbed her by her golden curls
And dragged her round and round
I threw her into the river
That flows through Knoxville town"

I sing it with fervor but with the proviso that I ain't likely to do it.

:)

Subject: RE: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 06:22 PM

Sure an atheist can sing believer songs. I've known atheists who would do practically anything for money... :-)

The real question is: Can he enjoy doing it?

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Folkiedave
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 03:14 PM

If you come to the South Yorkshire Carols (se other thread) then you will undoubtedly meet many people who sing sogns they don't believe in. And they are great songs.

Regards,

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:59 PM

If you're truly serious about the question, my answer would be "Treat the songs like booze. Keep them away from children." Wait until the child is old enough to understand that they're only songs, and what the difference is.

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: GUEST,Gene Burton
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 01:24 PM

Obviously, yes. Whether they understand them is another matter (although admittedly that goes for some believers as well).

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: John Hardly
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 01:12 PM

there is a difference between "empirical" and "real". Both mythos and logos are held in esteme by most thinkers. The choice of one over the other is quite possibly choosing ignorance, regardless of which of the two you choose to exclude.

...Oh, and I don't mind if you sing Believer songs.

"...she said, 'Are you a christian?'......I said, 'Man, I am tonight!'" M. Cohn

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Bill D
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 12:48 PM

Bok, Trickett & Muir once introduced a song called "The Middle Class Life is the Best of All" with the comment "...you don't have to believe everything you sing."

Why, I sing "The Stern Old Batchelor"

("..I do believe I'll never live with women anymore.."

so, sure...I have sung in Christian gospel workshops with Baptists, Episcopalians, Jews, agnostics and atheists. Each felt inwardly whatever was right for them...but the songs were wonderful and made everyone happy.

Subject: RE: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: DonMeixner
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:22 AM

A good song doesn't care who sings it.

Don

Subject: BS: Can An Atheist Sing Believer Songs?
From: Cruiser
Date: 21 Dec 03 - 02:18 AM

I was perusing the BS threads and noticed the one titled "Can a believer sing Atheist songs" and thought: Can an atheist sing believer songs?

As an atheist, later in life, I often sang "believer" songs to my young son while I rocked him when he was sick (Amazing Grace) or 'He's got the Whole World' we he tagged along while I worked. At the table I taught him to say Grace by reciting "Our Hands We Fold, Our heads we bow, For food and drink We thank Thee now". For fun when he was learning to talk we would sing Who Built The Ark? (Noah, Noah! Talk about a religious song earworm!), Onward Christian Soldiers, Do Lord, and 'I'm In The Lord's Army'. To help keep him from getting into trouble and avoid time-outs, I taught him Jesus Sees Me (…"when I sleep, play, all the time", and I took some lyrical liberties and expanded them to include "Jesus sees me when I'm bad").   Whisper A Prayer was sometimes sung in the evening I would sometimes help him recite the old standard 'Now I Lay Me Down to Sleep' as a bedtime prayer. I still often think of those good old church hymns, spirituals, and country music "gospel" standards. They will forever be part of my "mental song" repertoire even though I may never sing them again. I must add that the world of music would be much less rich without these songs penned by ecclesiastically inspired lyricists and songwriters.   


I knew and loved all those songs (and many more, especially 'The B-I-B-L-E') as a lad going to Sunday School and church with my Mother and sometimes by myself. I looked forward to singing those "Jesus" songs:
'Jesus Loves The Little Children', 'Jesus Loves Me', and 'Oh, How I Love Jesus', and 'What A Friend We Have In Jesus'. I was baptized a Christian in a Southern Baptist church. I often got attendance pins for not missing any scheduled functions, including choir practice (which I loved), for the whole year.

While in college I began to question my faith partly because of the freethinking atmosphere. My science courses made me wonder how an anthropomorphic God could exist without credible, objective, empirical evidence. I slowly became an agnostic but still wanted to believe after my college graduation and through my tour of duty in the Army during the Viet Nam era. I lost my brother, a fine Green Beret Officer, in Laos and that was the turning point for me.

Even though I consider myself a "strong atheist" I am tolerant of religious belief though I don't see why a belief in the "God Hypothesis" should be necessary. All of my relatives are bible-belt Christians and I respect their beliefs and customs but don't participate in prayer before meals though I stand or sit quietly while other heads are bowed and grace is spoken. My relatives can't understand how I can be the moral person I am with out being a believer. It is very clear to me because I know I am solely responsible for my actions with out guidance from a voice or image "up above" but from a conscience within.

I reason that if humans knew this was their only chance at life (no afterlife) they would treat their fellow man justly based on moral grounds instead of the threat of holy punishment (fire and brimstone) or for reunion with loved ones as a reward for obedience. One would also realize that punishment (including death for serious crimes) would be meted out here and now instead of at the improbable pearly gates. Often you will hear a criminal that is guilty, beyond a reasonable doubt, (and others that probably got away with murder) say "God and I know I am innocent and he is the only one that can judge me". What bothers me is Christians and other believers think that God will punish the person later and he avoids the real "he can feel" punishment on this earth. He therefore never receives what he deserves and his crimes are forever unavenged while his victims and their families suffer. I also don't see the logic of wasting mental and physical energy asking for holy forgiveness for "sins" committed or sins one might be capable of committing in the future.

The conundrum: I am not sure I would have become the same decent, moral man if I had not been exposed to the Christian teaching as a young boy and young man. So, and to finish the reason I started this thread, an atheist can sing believer songs. The reason I did was to give my son the opportunity to experience many sides of the issue and let him make up his own mind as to the value of believing in a deity or not. He now is a Christian, goes to church, helps out at many ecclesiastical functions, and is a drummer in a church band. He, like his old man did, is asking some of the same questions about the existence of God. I simply tell him my reasoned opinion, to read all he can on the subject, and reach his own researched conclusions. I would prefer he follow the science and reason out the evidence for himself. I told him whatever conclusion he reached that to berate the other view maliciously or with contempt is unjustified. However, I mentioned fringe religions espousing irrational martyrdom and "if you don't believe in Christ the way we do you are going to …" proclamations are radical and deserve complete skepticism and measured criticism. Finally, that the separation of church and state is crucial. As a registered Republican who voted for Mr. Bush, I abhor his preachiness and the omnipresent "may God continue to bless America" valediction after his speeches (especially the day after September 11 were we could use less of those kinds of "continued blessings").

To close, an important lesson I learned from the powerful Scientific Method is "right or wrong, the God hypothesis is untestable". Simply stated, "the concept of God is outside the domain of science and science cannot legitimately say anything about "him".

Ron

Humming "Beyond the sunset, oh blissful morning, when with our…" as I prepare for the night and another beautiful sunrise tomorrow, the first day of winter.