BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco

Subject: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Arnie
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 04:13 PM

Can anyone make sense of the fiasco over UK ppt holders requiring visas to travel to the States? According to the press, if I've read it correctly, the current UK ppt does not need a US visa. However, passports issued after 26th Octobeer will need a visa. In 2005 yet another new-style ppt will contain a biometric chip and so will not need a visa. So the question has to be, why on earth change the existing ppt on 26th October to replace it with one that does not contain sufficient security safeguards and so requires a US visa. Perhaps some knowledgeable person from the UK Passport Agency knows the answer to this one - but I won't be holding my breath. Anyway, like many other Brits, I for one will not be queueing outside the US Embassy - I think holidays will be spent around the Med this year! My contact with our American friends will remain visa-free via Mudcat!!

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Gareth
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:02 PM

As I understand it - And I may be wrong so other 'Catters feel free to correct me.

For a UK passport holder intending to visit the US of A for less than 3 months travelling by Air, or across the Candadian Border, does not require a visa.

Those travelling by other means do. - Which is bad news for transatlantic Yachtspeople.

Existing passports will be honoured untill expiry. The US of A is requiring chipped details on passports issued post 26 Oct 2004.

I understand that the UK is going on to "Chiped" passport in 2005 (Asuming that the computer system works) - I have my doubts as to if this system will be up and running on time.

Methinks paranoia (SP) rules.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:22 PM

i reckon its a big rip off, the new passports will be more expensive.
and it wont stop terrerists, it just means they will have a new passport.big rip off.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: GUEST,ella
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 07:53 PM

The passports will probably end up dearer than the flights. Cop a look in any travel agents window at the moment.Were anyone in the frame of mind to suffer Disneyland right now, they could probably get there and back, a kebab and a pint, and still have change from a fiver.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 08:51 PM

jOhn from Hull, you've hit the nail right on the head.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jan 04 - 09:57 PM

Sure about this? I just checked up and for Irish passport holders visiting the USA, even when they have passports which have already been issued, and which are still current, these won't be valid without a visa after 26th Octoiber 2004.

I'd think that, if the rules for UK passport holders are significantly less rigid than for Irish passport holders, there could be one hell of a row brewing.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Folkiedave
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 02:23 PM

I have serious problems with this. It sems that one of the methods the US intelligence is using is to compare names of known terrorists with passenger lists.

I reckon should I ever want to be a terrorist there is a good chance I might change my name.

In the meantime I am:

Dave
www.collectorsfolk.co.uk

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Dead Horse
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 03:14 PM

Not THE Dave Collectorsfolk, that I met at the suicide bombers reunion bash last Friday?

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 03:47 PM

The daft thing about all this stuff is that all the fingerprints and that kind of stuff can do is prove that the person carrying the passport is the person whose details are on the passport.

Unless of course they've got all the airport security desks wired into some incredible computer that has all the fingerprints and so forth of all the people suspected of being terrorists in the world.

I understand they haven't got to that stage yet. If they ever do I suspect the list would be full of people who had been identified as buying almanacs or street maps of big cities...

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: BanjoRay
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 07:20 PM

In case there's any doubt, the US Embassy website says:
The Enhanced Border Security and Visa Entry Reform Act passed by the U.S. Congress in 2002 does require that all persons traveling visa free to the U.S. under the Visa Waiver Program have a biometric chip identifier in their passport by October 26, 2004. Those travelers who use passports issued after October 26, 2004, that do not contain a biometric identifier, will be required to obtain a U.S. visa. That visa will contain biometric information. Those UK travelers who use machine-readable passports lacking a biometric chip but issued before October 26, 2004 will be able to continue to use the Visa Waiver Program until that passport expires. The U.S. Government is aware of the concern among officials of Her Majesty's Government caused by this deadline. UK officials have made clear that they do not anticipate that they will be able to begin issuing passports with biometric chips by that date, raising the possibility that some UK citizens will need to obtain a tourist/business visa for travel to the U.S. We are old friends and long-time allies, and the U.S. Government remains committed to facilitating legitimate travel to the U.S. We will continue to work with Her Majesty's Government in pursuit of a solution to this problem.

So there! The bold bit is the bit I'm interested in, as I'm hoping to go to Mount Airy in June on a two year old passport.
Ray

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: kendall
Date: 11 Jan 04 - 07:27 PM

Maybe we should all stay home and boycott all travel

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Arnie
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 05:36 AM

BanjoRay - thanks for spelling it out so clearly. The policy still makes no sense whatsoever though. My passport was only issued last year so I've got almost 9yrs of visa-free travel to the US available. If my wife's ppt expired this November, she would have to queue at the US Embassy for a visa to accompany me (no postal applications allowed!). What an insane policy - how the hell is this supposed to stop the terrorists? What on earth is happening in the US? Probably better just to stay away - I hear Eastern Europe is very cheap, has some stunning architecture, history and countryside - and as most of it will soon be in the EU, no visas will be required after May this year. So the choice is visas, long-haul flight, fingerprinting, iris scanning, being treated as a criminal on arrival, or a short hop into Sofia, Budapest etc. Hmmm... let me think about that before I book my summer hols......

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 06:06 AM

They spell it out, but it's still very unclear - the first sentences distinctly says that no passport without a "biometric chip identifier" will be acceptable for visa free travel after October 26th. Then the fourth sentence says that, if you have an existing UK passports issued before that date which doesn't have such a chip, you will still be able to travel without a visa, until that passport expires.

They can't both be true. Have US customs been told to ignore the law for UK passport holders, but not so far as anyone else is concerned? Are they making this up on the hoof?

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: GUEST,T-boy
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 08:12 AM

I don't needto cross the Atlantic to be insulted by Americans.

I can get that by staying home and posting on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:07 AM

No insult in them reckoning you might be up to no good, so long as they do it on an equal opportunities basis.

If they are working on the basis that only people who look different and talk different need to be checked, they would need to be off their heads. (My impression is, however, that that is the way they think.)

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 09:24 AM

John in Hull, the figure I heard mooted was about £86 for the issue of a new biometric passport. I would say visit the EEC as it's passport free, [allegedly] just try going to France without one!
Kevin there are already different systems in use for citizens of the Irish republic going to the US. You can clear US immigration in Ireland.
John

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 11:06 AM

Just because you're travelling in an Irish passport doesn't mean you're travelling from Ireland. And as I understand it, from October 26th existing Irish passport hoildera are going to have to get visas.

It might be best not to trust that US embassy statement about UK passport holders not needing visas after that date without checking further. A bit late to find out they'd got it wrong when passport control sticks you on a plane home when you land there.

I've never had to show my passport in or out to other countries in Europe in recent years. Been bodysearched, but they didn't bother about looking at the passport.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 11:07 AM

Just because you're travelling in an Irish passport doesn't mean you're travelling from Ireland. And as I understand it, from October 26th existing Irish passport holders are going to have to get visas.

It might be best not to trust that US embassy statement about UK passport holders not needing visas after that date without checking further. A bit late to find out they'd got it wrong when passport control sticks you on a plane home when you land there.

I've never had to show my passport in or out to other countries in Europe in recent years. Been bodysearched, but they didn't bother about looking at the passport.

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: sian, west wales
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 11:37 AM

You'll also have to be careful if your visit involves crossing the Canadian border. I'm a Canadian citizen living in the UK and travelling on a UK passport. I was advised that I would not be able to cross over into the States without paying, I think, $30 for a 3 month visa or somesuch. Fortunately this meant that I could avoid going to a naff Christmas party so it 'worked' for me this time.

However, I have a couple of festivals that I have to attend for work over the summer (West Virginia and upper NYState) and I want to go over to Ontario while I'm there. Don't know if this means that I'll need a visa just to get back so I can return to the UK ...

What a lot of fuss...

sian

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:19 PM

Information (in English) by the US ambassy in Germany

Should answer most of the questions.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:23 PM

I always had to show my passport when entering a EC country in the last years unless I came from another EC country.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: BS: US visas - UK ppt fiasco
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 12 Jan 04 - 12:46 PM

That site Wikfgang linked to seemed to raise as many questions as it answered. One sentence seems to say one thing, the next seesm to say something else, the next something else again.

As Wolfgang says, travelling within the European Union passports tend to stay in your pocket. Even coming from England where technically you do need to have one. (That's, if you're white - getting back into England, if you're any other colour you'd better be prepared to show it.)