Help: song-book creation

Subject: Help: song-book creation
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 09:23 PM

Hi, I realise I could probably get my head around this given sufficient time. But I'm hoping someone may already have something suitable set up.

My computer runs 'Microsoft word' and I want to set up a file with songs in a standard format, but allowing me to print them out (and view them) in 'A5'; i.e. 2 pages to a sheet of A4 landscaped. (with good margins to the left for a 'ring binder')

If someone already has this set-up, please contact me with details.

I'm putting this in the main 'music' thread, as I think it may well be of use to others as well.


CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Jan 04 - 09:50 PM

Doesn't one of the "Wizards" have this format as a setup?

Robin

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:21 AM

Hi, Nigel - open Word and go to "Help." Search for "booklet," and you'll get lots of advice. Either that, or explore the options available to you under "file/page setup."
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:25 AM

If you are going to make a "booklet" with several folded leaves nested together, the order in which you put the pages on the sheets gets a little complex. Word does have templates for "booklet" layout, but I've never been too successful with using them.

It's not really difficult setting up the template, but in the printing that it gets messy. If you get even a single sheet misfeed during printing, it gets very difficult to resume at a known point and get the rest of the thing to print without just starting over - throwing out the good ones and printing the whole thing.

I'm not saying it can't be done, but it takes patience and practice.

If you really want a booklet with multi-leaf folios, some printers have a "print booklet" option. You can just set up your Word pages to be 1/2 A5 size, and tell the printer to make a booklet. You do have to tell it how many pages per folio, and you have the same (or worse) problems getting through (or salvaging) a print "job" if your printer isn't 100% reliable.

Most printers in reasonably good condition will get through the "front sides" okay. It's when you turn them over to print the other side of the sheets that misfeeds are almost guaranteed to happen occasionally.

If you're goint to use a ring binder, there's probably no good reason make folios - multiple sheets folded together. You can fold the individual sheets if you like, but my experience has been that it's better just to cut them to single page size (half an A5) and get rid of the fold for use in a ring binder. (A sharp knife and a straight edge works a lot better than scissors or even the average "office" paper shear.)

If you don't try to nest pages inside one another, all you really need to do is set up (File - Page Setup) two columns on a landscape page, and adjust margins and column widths to suit. Print 4 songs to a sheet (2 front, 2 back). If you want to number the pages you do have to do a little calculating, but it's not too difficult.

It gets really simple if you only print one side.

John

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 06:03 AM

Thanks all:
I think I have enough info to be going on with

CHEERS

Nigel

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 06:24 AM

Format - manual change - change column (my commands are in German, that's a try to translate). and change the page to horizontal format.

But I prefer to print normal pages, 12p and a4. I glue the pages together and copy them with a reduction of 70%. When I recognize a printer's error, one page is easier to change and print anew.

Wilfried

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: Jim McLean
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:40 PM

I used to make programs for school plays which were A4 printed on both sides and folded over to make A5 size. I used Publisher in lanscape mode and made simple text frames so that I could easily control the printing area.
Jim

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From:
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 04:44 PM

Nigel, Please e-mail me. I have a booklet thing set up in Letter, but could be accomodated for A4, I'm sure.

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: Bo Vandenberg
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:58 PM

Some of the HP printers I've used will print booklets. The ones that print both sides make all the numbering calculations in the printer driver and you are just responsible for the pages being the right size.


I know the HP 4050 does this (least it did an hour ago :) ) It might be worth getting some time on an first rate printer to print masters, then photocopy the stuff to make booklets.


s

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:09 AM

Nigel, remember this thread: Personal Song Book Question? I thought others who see your thread, might enjoy it, too.

kat

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 02:40 AM

Good link, kat -

That other thread sort of wandered off, but several people did ask about the wonder papers that won't rip run ravel or bag at the knees. I did some research some time back, but havent' actually tried any of the super stuff - largely because of cost in excess of what my current projects would justify. Rather than revive a 2 year old thread, perhaps someone would be interested in the following:

Ripped Sheets Inkjet Tyvex
Graytex Waterproof Papers
PPG Teslin (.pdf) [for waterproof inkjet printing]
Papilio Specialty Media
AccuArt Waterproof Film for Inkjet
Weatherproof Paper [suggested for maps]
Zecom Weatherproof Photocopy/Laser printer media (UK)

And maybe someone who tries some will let us know how it worked?

John

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: cobber
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 02:57 AM

I'm with Jim. Publisher does what you wantmuch more easily than Word. You just link the pages together, Publisher calls it overflow, and everything should work very smoothly. If you find you want to add pages anywhere in the booklet, it automatically adjusts the page numbers and positions in the booklet.

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 03:06 AM

The biggest problem with a "booklet" format is that you have to reprint the whole booklet to make any insertions or deletions.

Okay if you're going to make copies for friends, or for a particular get-together (then it's their problem), but single pages are still best for your own book, so that you can add or remove single sheets to keep up to date with your interests.

It doesn't make much difference what program you use, if you can lay out one page/sheet the way you want it.

John

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 06:55 AM

I use FinePrint to print booklets(a web search will find it). At $50 it is a bit expensive unless you do a lot of booklets, but I find the time saving for the page ordering worth it. JohnInKansas made the point that you have to reprint the whole booklet if you make an insertion: unless every song fits on one page you may well have to rejuggle the page order as well.

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: DMcG
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 07:43 AM

I need to clarify that, I think. FinePrint looks like a printer, so it works with Word, Publisher, Adobe Acrobat, Access, whatever. It figures out the right page order, even for booklets of, say, 103 pages, which is a bit of a nightmare by hand. As A result, I just save everything in an order that's easy for me to handle - like alphabetical or set running order and then print out the results. I've often wondered why Microsoft haven't got round to building something like this into Windows anyway - I'm sure a lot of people would find it useful.

Even so, you do need to do this quite often to justify $50!

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 09:03 AM

Quite a few printers have a "booklet" option built into their drivers. I have HP Laser and Inkjets, and had an Epson inkjet with this "feature."

As mentioned earlier though, getting through complete passes of both sides of the sheets without a misfeed can be "iffy;" and figuring out how to synch the sheets with the re-start can be a puzzle.

Nearly all printers can be set to print "odd pages" or "even pages," and to "reverse page order," once you figure out how you want to do it. I find it easier to select these myself than to try to rely on the "built-in" printer driver features.

If your default printer has these features, Word will offer some options under page layout that won't be there if you use a "dumb" printer, so your options there may depend on your installation as much as on the layout software you use.

Figuring out the page order to do it all by hand is pretty simple if you do a "mockup," number the pages with everything clipped together, and then use each sheet to make a "printing layout." Ability to print, or reprint, individual sheets is one advantage of "doing it this hard way."

Unless you have, or can improvise, some pretty heavy-duty binding equipment, getting more than about 10 sheets (40 pages) to fold cleanly into a single folio is pretty tough. Even if you fold individual sheets and crease firmly, when you insert them together the "inner" page edges are going to stick out and make page turns difficult. This effect is often worse if individual sheets are crimped tightly before assembly than if you can press the whole stack together, since assembling before you "set" the crease allows the outer sheets to form a larger (closer and tighter) radius around the inner ones in the crease.

John

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 04:16 AM

Nigel, in your first post I see you say: "My computer runs 'Microsoft word' and I want to set up a file with songs in a standard format, but allowing me to print them out (and view them) in 'A5'; i.e. 2 pages to a sheet of A4 landscaped. (with good margins to the left for a 'ring binder')

Much of this thread has concerned producing folded booklets but that is not how I would interpret what you are asking. I'd take it you are looking at loose leafed punched pages in a ring binder. If I'm right, when you refer to the page sizes do you mean you want pages of A4 in an A4 ringbinder but with 2 songs printed on each A4 page?

My own inclinations (allowing for booklets as mentioned by others) are to keep things as simple as you can and your aim/purpose is by no means clear to me.

If you want to produce something nice to hand out to others, I would be inclined to attempt a booklet approch. I had some joy a couple of years ago producing small ones as Christmas presents for some of the family using MS Publisher, eg. I did a Tom Waits lyric booklet for one of his albums using material I found on the net for one of my brothers.

If it's a personal booklet of songs, I am with John (In Kansas). It's very likely to be subject to change. My own approach would be to just have straight A4 at one song per page (or I could cut that down to A5) and use the plastic envelopes to store the pages in a ring binder. The envelopes will hold 2 pages so you can go "double sided" and if you added, it should be easy to insert or re-organise slightly. I'd also try to come up with a system of organising the pages which could be grouping song types using index dividers, or maybe just a straight alphabetical sequence. One thing I would avoid is printing page numbers.

Jon

Subject: RE: Help: song-book creation
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:01 AM

A further thought. Re: John's comments over cutting paper. We have a small office cutter here (for those in the UK, from Viking) which now does what we need well (in that case Peter want's A6 index card to mount postcards on) but it is always worth asking a local printer. If local experience is anything to go by, Jarrold's, the big Norwich printer do charge a relative fortune for that service, but before we got the cutter, we did find a couple of smaller outlets who, if say you bought a pack of A4 coloured card would chop it down for free.