BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior

Subject: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:27 AM

First, I'm not a Dean man at this point, but I will vote for the Democratic nominee to defeat Bush. That said...

What in God's name is going on? The knee jerk responses to Howard Dean's Iowa speech. To Ted Kennedy not standing for Republican ovations. The media firestorm over Dean's wife. The media painting Dean as the devil for being an old school fiery orator. Is it because, as someone suggested elsewhere, Dean isn't a pretty face? Or is it because Dean isn't playing by the rules whereby everyone walks around looking and sounding like Stone Phillips (who seems to have a permanent stick up his back end)?

I was admonished last weekend by two very conservative African American Baptist ladies for daring to state that swearing/being insulted by swearing is a cultural thing, and that there are many cultures in which swearing is not perceived as something bad to be admonished, especially in adults. They insisted there were no cultures on the planet in which swearing was acceptable. I responded that we weren't all that puritanical and judgmental of others who have different social habits and customs from our own.

In this era of television driven conformity, I do believe we are witnessing the tyranny of the dominant Anglo American culture's middle class manners run amok.

Anyone else offended by the all too easily offended TV and talk radio pundits?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: CarolC
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 10:56 AM

It reminds me of the business about Dukakis (sp?) wearing a goofy looking hat while posing in a tank. At that time, I thought that anybody who used such purile criteria for selecting the president of a world superpower deserved whoever they got for president.

As far as I'm conserned though, most of that stuff serves two purposes:

1) It gives the news people job security. What else are they going to talk about? They're not allowed to talk about the real issues.

2) It gives the people who are pulling the strings behind the scenes, politically speaking, some slight of hand to distract the voters from the real issues that the people on the news shows aren't supposed to talk about.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 11:49 AM

I'm not a big Bush fan, either, Guest. but I wouldn't vote for any Democrat just to get him out. From this lot, it's a tough choice to pick someone who has more experience. I also like the fact that in my corporate job, things are going quite well and the economy is on the upswing. I am seeing hiring being done again to some degree.

One screw up can ruin a guy. I believe Howard Dean will never be able to get over being not presidential.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 11:57 AM

The current field of Democratic candidates is the best we've seen in a long time, and so there is no reason for Democrats to be using electability as one of their main criteria for the nominee.

I, and all the government statistics on job hiring and creation, happen to disagree with your rosy outlook for the economy. The economy has been and is continuing to improve for the wealthy though, I'll grant you that. But not for the working and middle class families.

I have no problem whatsoever with Democrats deciding that Dean isn't electable. I do have a problem with the unelected media demonizing a candidate that threatens them, just because they can though, which is what I see happening with the Dean candidacy. The mainstream conglomerate media demonizing a candidate the way they have Dean should make people sit up and take notice, IMO. Not in a sour grapes sort of way, either. We need much more discussion of how the mainstream conglomerate media manipulates the images of candidates, and thereby the outcome of elections. A lot more discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Amos
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:07 PM

I am not sure which of you is saying what but there is no question the knee-jerk reactions onn these and many other non-issues point to a very narrow-minded cast governing the successful large media channels (which are now gfoign to grow fewer in number thanks to recent legislation).

This is indicative, to my mind, of commercial control of government. It is only people scared of having their revenue stream interrupted who get really hissy about tolerating various purely human variations, such as cussing some.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 12:15 PM

Don't look at me.

I love to fucking swear.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:20 PM

Burrrrrrrrrppppp! PPhhhhhhtttttt!! scratch, scratch scratch (somewhere on my nether regions) Fhut the Wuck are you talking about? Appropriate behavior (picking nose) what's that?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:22 PM

"They insisted there were no cultures on the planet in which swearing was acceptable. "

I suppose what they might have meant would be that in all cultures there are likely to be some words which are held in reserve by people who are pretty relaxed about swearing. And wherever you go you could probably find some people who would have a much longer list of words that aren't acceptable than most people. Which is probably true.

But in a lot of places you'd have to dig around quite hard to find such people. And even then some of the words they thought quite acceptable might be taboo words for their opposite numbers in other places.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:24 PM

If Howard Dean's wife don't want to campaign with him, so what? She ain't running for the presidential nomination.

However, there is something about him I find creepy. I can't quite put my finger on it. It's like a sinister vibe, or something...

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 01:30 PM

Surely there has to be something sinister and strange about anyone who want to be elected president of the USA?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 02:56 PM

The Dean Iowa speech reaction reminds me of the reaction of the Michael Moore Oscar speech. The negative reactions are just plain over the top, IMO.

Dean gave a fiery, old school "on to New Hampshire" political speech for his troops (who desperately needed to be rallied at that point), while Kerry and Edwards ignored their troops and gave presidential speeches for the national TV cameras. I would suggest there was not one single thing wrong with Dean's Iowa speech, and that it was given in an old school style of fiery oration in the mold of Jesse Jackson, Paul Wellstone, and many others.

Michael Moore was giving the speech he had every right to give at the Oscars, given the subject category (documentary), the subject matter of his film, and the activist nature of his film career.

I would contend that both Moore's Oscar speech and Dean's Iowa speech were perfectly appropriate for the circumstances in which they were given, but that the mainstream conglomerate media didn't want their messages to be heard, hence the demonization of both men in mainstream media, and the claims that their behavior was inappropriate to the circumstances in which their speeches were given.

Not a coincidence that we see this sort of thing being happening over and over again. It is a consistent strategy being used by conglomerate interests who have a stake in the way dissidents portray the ruling elite through the message and/or the medium.

KimC, is it possible the sinister vibe you say you sense in Dean could have been at least partly suggested by the way the mainstream media has so successfully portrayed him as demonic? There was a National Review cover recently that had a photograph of him I've seen the right leaning media use over and over, which made him look like a demonic madman. Is that sort of media manipulation of a bad photograph of a candidate fair to use as a club to beat up a wildly popular grassroots candidate who is bucking the system?

Or is it an abuse of power by the mainstream media, which is what I am contending.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 03:11 PM

And then there is the refusal of CBS to air the MoveOn.org commercial criticizing the Bush administration during the upcoming Super Bowl, while it announces it will, as it has for the past three years of the Bush administration, play a commerical from the White House which links the war on drugs to the war on terror.

The reason CBS gives for refusing to accept the ad from MoveOn.org is that it doesn't all advocacy ads. Conveniently, they acknowledge that even though the White House ad is not a public service announcement, that it also isn't an advocacy ad.

Right. Seems the only difference is one ad promotes the Republican agenda, and the other the Democrats agenda. No disparity there. I think we should be demanding an FCC investigation into the bizarre behavior pandering to the Republican right, which has been so blatantly exhibited by CBS in recent months. The Reagan made for TV movie, the Michael Jackson thing, and now this.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 03:32 PM

You all ain't seen nuthin' yet when it comes to media manipulatin' public opinion. Bush just gave away the farm in the Omnibus bill which gives Rupert Murdock, Fox and Mickey Mouse (Disney) a clesar shot of locking down ownership of about 99% of the radio and TV stations in America between 'um.

Yeah, *Big Media* is scared to death of Howard Dean because he is an outsiders and they flat out don't trust outsiders. They are afraid that he will come in and sign an executive order breaking up their little ballgame.

BTW, remember when the gal from the Dixie Chicks was critical of Bush during a performance. Well ClearChannel, who owns a ton of the radio stations in the US had their stations come down on the Chicks and in less than 24 hours folks were busting up Chick's CD in the streets from one end of America to the other... See what I mean by you ain't seen nuthin' yet?

The unelected media is running the show and they are in bed with George Bush. They have given him every concievable break going back to well before the 2000 elections. They never asked him the tough questions about his DUI's, his alcoholism, his past cocaine use and his womanizing. And they still won't and never will. To add to that they promoted the "Dubya" PR thing at not cost to him. Giving one candidate a cute little nickname showed galring favoritism, And then guess who got the job of running the last few FCC regs thru the shreader? Colin Powell's son, Michael. Oh, what a cozy little fascist nest these folks have made for themselves...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 03:49 PM

They've been doing this Bipolar photo thing for years... some people can take the 'demonic photo' so well, they could make Mother Teresa look like a mass murderer...

Bush's "likable" smug swagger is truly psychotic... He has advisors, but he doesn't have a grasp of the world issues, or even what it means to do good... his domestic issues proficiency rests entirely on the media, which props him up like a pregnant woman... Oh!, don't bother him with any exchanges of opinion... that will only upset him...

Has anyone EVER seen 'George as president' engaged in an honest exchange of opinions? I seriously doubt it... And the worst of it all... George W. Bush has not done his homework... He doesn't read... I doubt whether he has ever studied anything... He simply tells us how it's going to be, and that's that. We roll over... end of story.

Dean is exciting, engaged, well studied, humanitarian, and not from "the hill"... he's bound to be in the cross hairs of media controversy as a result... This guy's bound to 'shake things up'... make him look bad...

Bush is just responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of totally innocent people, for brandishing an unprecidented corporate takeover, for promoting military consciousness and dependence all over the world, and playing a kind of 'hard ball' politics here at home that makes life unpleasant for hundreds of millions of honest, hard-working people...   thats all... why would he be news-worthy? ...make him look good.
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Kim C
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 04:21 PM

Well, GUEST, I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not.

McGrath, that's a good point.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 05:49 PM

Thomas the Rhymer must live in Washington and actually be a member of Congress he knows so much! He must be privy to all closed door meetings that involve Bush.

"Bush is just responsible for the deaths of tens of thousands of totally innocent people, for brandishing an unprecidented corporate takeover, for promoting military consciousness and dependence all over the world, and playing a kind of 'hard ball' politics here at home that makes life unpleasant for hundreds of millions of honest, hard-working people...   thats all... why would he be news-worthy? ...make him look good"

Life unpleasant for 100s of millions of people here at home? Does the U.S have over 300 million yet? Life is unpleasant for all of them? all THREE hundrds of millions? Tens of thousands of deaths? Where?   Bush doesn't read?

Thomas,I'm not a right winger Republican by any means. Hardly. But your remarks make you look like a total left wing babbler. Can't say that you are not doing more harm than good.

My moderate, common sensabilites tell me Howard the Dean is not that much different from Howard the Duck.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 08:42 PM

Did anyone watch the Democratic candidate debate in New Hampshire last night? I didn't get to see the first of it but the part I saw was very interesting.

I was surpised to find that I reacted the most favorably to Senator Lieberman. I wouldn't vote for him this year- (unless he was the nominee! I WILL vote for any Democrat nominee this year.) I think electing him would be like waving the cape- but I could, another year.

Actually I liked them all, from Kucinich to Reverend Sharpton (I like that man!). I wanted to be cautious and analytical- but I kept agreeing with every one of them. Ah, well. I guess I'll just have to let them winnow it down to the nominee and then I'll take to the doorbells.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 08:59 PM

Yes, it's tedious to see what I think is an overreaction to Dean's Iowa speech. CNN and Fox are probably the worst at the demonizing game but the major networks are reinforcing the story as well. However, Dean did come in 3rd in Iowa, losing a considerable lead in the polling to Cary; his campaign and the candidate himself bear major responsibilty for that loss. He seems a bright man and an honorable one. I hope he manages to do better in NH.

Now if the media wanted to deal with "character issues" there's plenty to work on with George W. Bush. Who said "There's no free lunch"?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 09:14 PM

Sure it isn't just that scary hair do (I'm convinced it's a wig)?

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 09:49 PM

Hi Martin!... who ever you actually are...

It has been reported by credible sources that over ten thousand civilians have died in our latest 'hip shoot' in Iran... I'm not sure how many innocent people have died in Afghanistan... but it is in the thousands...

I didn't say Bush can't read... But he has said himself that he never reads the paper, but he has it "read to him"... Who decides what he is going to hear?

No, I'm not a Washington insider... but I've been doing my homework... If you had, you wouldn't be so... 'out of the loop'...

If two hundred thousand people are experiencing 'the tightening economy', and it is plausible... then my statement stands...

Between you and me, flamin martin g... wake up!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 23 Jan 04 - 11:43 PM

Correction... "It has been reported by credible sources that over ten thousand civilians have died in our latest 'hip
shoot' in Iran..." duh, thomas... IRAQ, ya knucklehead!


Between 8041 and 9878 civilian deaths

Between 3000 and 3400 deaths in
bombing of Afghanistan

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Johnny in OKC
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:29 AM

I'm tired of "mandated appropriate behavior".

Such as the behavior of congress during the State of the Union Address, which was more like a Right Wing Pep Rally. Even the Democrats were doing a Standing Ovation every 40 seconds, while W was bragging about Iraq for half an hour. With the possible exception of Edward Kennedy.

Perhaps Howard Dean's speech to his constituents wasn't appropriately presidental -- so what? He got excited. Maybe someone needs to get excited. I give him credit for not sulking, after the third-place finish in Iowa. Fight on, Dean!

Love, Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:38 AM

Guest made some good points--is that just one guest? If this isn't the same one who has started trolling in some of the other threads, it would be a good idea to give yourself a handle, even if you don't join, just so we can tell you apart from the rest of the guests.

Bobert said:

The unelected media is running the show and they are in bed with George Bush. They have given him every concievable break going back to well before the 2000 elections. They never asked him the tough questions about his DUI's, his alcoholism, his past cocaine use and his womanizing. And they still won't and never will. To add to that they promoted the "Dubya" PR thing at not cost to him. Giving one candidate a cute little nickname showed galring favoritism, And then guess who got the job of running the last few FCC regs thru the shreader? Colin Powell's son, Michael. Oh, what a cozy little fascist nest these folks have made for themselves...

It's a loop you're seeing here. The media are worried about polls and ratings--it all leads back to advertising revenues and the bottom line. And since the folks who answer polls to determine ratings have (through this same media) soaked in Bush's message that if you don't like what he's doing then you're unAmerican trash, they react unfavorably to anything negative about Bush.

Bobert, I think Molly Ivins started calling him Dubya, then switched to Shrub.

Anyway. It's damned depressing.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Barry Finn
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:45 AM

Add to the above. More than 500 dead Americians & about 9000 wounded. For no reason at all other than "I want what I want when I want it" & to hell what the world thinks or what the citizens of US want. That's approx 13,000 needless deaths & the number of wounded must be staggering. As far as I'm concered when & if Saddam is tried for war crimes, the Shrub, the VP, the Wolf, Rum's-feel, Dicey Ricey & a few others should be standing shoulder to shoulder along side of Saddam. They'd all be in good company.

Barry

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:52 AM

As I posted on another thread, Dean was talking over a cheering, stamping, whistling crowd. The camera crews blocked out the background noise so they could record his speech, and in the process made him look like something from the WWF. It would have been nice if they'd explained the situation. But Dean isn't politics as usual, and that scares them. It's what attracted me to the campaign. But it seems to worry some people.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 10:00 AM

And lets not forget all those high pitched, vien poppin', rants that Bush exhibited when he was trying to stir up a lather to go to war. If one were to take a few of those clips and run them side by side with Dean's little rant it would be very intersting. Buit don't expect the current media regime to do that. Heaven's no...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Martin Gibson
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 11:57 AM

Thomas the Rhymer

Lot of backpeddaling on your part to frantically support your ridiculous rant.

You couldn't even get it right the first time you are so confused.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:46 PM

Hey, what's the fuss here?

You have a jobless recovery and old people collecting shopping carts outside the grocery stores in order to pay the higher personal property taxes and double digit health care costs that have reared their ugly heads in the last 3 years under Mr. Bush.

And I just read yesterday that the jobs which are being created pay 28% less that one's that are being lost.

Not too rosey a picture if you're part of the working class.

And as for Iraqi deaths from the invasion and subsequent invasion? Historians will have to sort it out since the current regime is Hell bent on keeping those numbers under wraps. But they have reported that over 30,000 sorties were flown. Yep, that represents on heck of a lot of bombs, most of which were dropped in or around populated areas. Add in the millions of rounds of tank, artillery, morter and rifle rounds and you have one heck of a lot of dead or seriosly wounded people! I don't think that can be resonably refuted.

But there is at least one Catter who has stated that the number of Iraqi deaths was between 700 and 1400? Hmmmmm? Fir what the war has cost, we could have privitizefd it and let the Mafia do it if 700 to 1400 dead Iraqis was the majic number to declare victory and move in. Heck, the Mafia probably would have done that fir just a couple million rather than the $300 or so billion that Rumsfeld has spent. Talk about $100 tiolet seats? Hey, they're lookin' cheaper and cheaper by the day....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 12:54 PM

Martin my boy... thanks for the desperate need to try to set me straight! Your foil of common sense is hilarious, but peverse... and believe me, I'm not backpedalling...

Since you have offered no actual counter, no facts that weigh heavy on your soul, I can only conclude that you don't know any better... Poor baby!... and a coward to boot!... Got any ideas of your own? ... put 'em on the table, or piss off.

I believe that the US has about 260 million people
about one third of the eligable voters... voted... 85 billion?
A little less than half of these, voted for Bush... 43 billion?
The rest of us are not as happy as we oughterbe... 218 Billion

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Ebbie
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 01:43 PM

Thomas the Rhymer, I believe our current US population is right at 290 million so the numbers are even worse than you postulate! If the dismayed and disgruntled among us were to emit one thunderous GGGGGGGGRRRRRRRRRRR, it would reach halfway to Mars. Anybody want to set up a date and time?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: NicoleC
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 02:32 PM

Ebbie,

I watched the debates and thoughts pretty much all the candidates did quite well, but except for that very tough Fed Reserve question tossed to Sharpton, all of the questions were very easy and exactly what the candidates wanted to answer. Perhaps that's appropriate at this stage of the game, but I found it boring.

NONE of the candidates were polished enough yet to take on Bush, but that will happen. The nominee will be well groomed. I'm talking about body language and choices of words. What we are seeing now is closer to the truth of the person than we'll see in the election.

Lieberman did quite well because, with the exception of his stance on the war which he defined quite well, most of what came out of his mouth was the opposite of what his record shows.

Sharpton was clearly the most experienced debator and speaker on the stage. I like the man, too, he has vision and a clear sense of his own morality, and he can define it. I don't think I'd want him as a President, but he would make an exceptional addition to the Cabinet.

Dean did okay considering he was literally swaying from the drugs he was on to fight his cold. Good for him to mention it once to set his performance in context, but not to keep mentioning it to make it seem like an excuse.

Kerry just rode the tide and succeeded in not screwing up his current surprise frontrunner position.

Clark is very rough around the edges but he speaks well and you can understand his convictions. I thought he fumbled the question about Moore's use of the word "deserter" about Bush -- I'm glad he didn't deny it but sorry that he didn't and mention that the accusations are about going AWOL, not desertion, and make better use of the question to show the difference between one who commits to service and one who just wants to wear the uniform.

I was most pleasantly surprised by Edwards. He clearly showed exactly why southerners are suspicious of most Democratic candidates without resorting to the south-bashing us southerners are so sick of hearing. He also was willing to speak up about his concern about the superficial nature of the questions. I may have to pay more attention to him.

Kucinich, bless his heart, did a good job saying things I agree with but a bad job showing that he can make those goals a reality. And he looked bloody awful... was his appearance deliberately designed to make him look like an inept nerd? Very sad -- I think he did the worst of the lot.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Johnny in OKC
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 02:47 PM

Does John Edwards ever stop talking about "Two Americas"? One for the rich and one for the others. All right, it's true, but hasn't he got anything else?

It's going to take a hell of a lot more than that, to beat the Bush Machine. They haven't yet begun to spend.

Love, Johnny

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 07:49 PM

...and while I'm at it...

When Bush came into office, he had *Zero*... count'em *Zero* hours of international foriegn affairs experience. He had barely ever been out of the country. Now, GWB has three years of experience... but some would say "his resume still is not what we had hoped it would be"... or in other words, bad hash has been made of America's reputation, and of the world's cohesiveness, and of Diplomacy...

I'm hearing Republican supporters now saying that most of the Democrats are inexperienced in foriegn policy, as compared with GWB. In this case, I'd respectably submit, that minimal foriegn policy experience, with excellent communication skills and a firm educational base is likely to have far better effect in the long run... than say,... four years of bullying, tragic consequences and miscommunications... GWB still has virtually no 'diplomacy experience' whatsoever...

I still think it is of the utmost importance to keep the Democratic choice from being finalized for as long as possible... All those dollars that Bush has behind him can only exert negative campaigning... which can't really be effective untill it has a focus...

Perhaps Dean has become the first real casualty... hope not!

ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Gareth
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 08:11 PM

Mmmm ! Spread out the targets, so that the Republican Guns can't Zero in on them.

Actually that makes good sense.

But at the end of the day to dispose of Bush it will require the foot sloggers.

To check that the ballot is not being rigged.

To get Your voters registered and out on the day !

This will require a purpose and unity - and not mean sitting back on the day (or days proceeding) moaning about how unfair the electorial system is.

After all - No pain No gain.

BTW - and in one way I was proud of it - my first (minor) heart attack symptomised whilst I was climbing up and down the steep South Wales hillsides delivering political leaflets.

I maneged to finish my round before retiring hurt.

Gareth

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 08:25 PM

I'm also wondering if we can fill out absentee ballots in order to sidestep the software issues so many are familiar with concerning the computerized voting booths... I think it could work! ...at least it would make sure some kind of accountability and correctness would ensue... ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 08:49 PM

One thing that occurs to me - last time it appears the people in the armed services, sitting in barracks, tended to vote for Bush.

Are they really so likely to do that this time, sitting in a war zone abd fed up with it? That might especially be relevant, if the Democrat candidate was Clark.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 09:16 PM

...or Kerry...

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Bobert
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 09:57 PM

ttr:

As to your observation that Bush has zero experience in foriegn affairs when he entered office.....

....it shows.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: LadyJean
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 11:44 PM

Most politicians begin as lawyers, as the sister, daughter and granddaughter (twice!) of attorneys who tried cases, I know that they learn to project their voices, same as actors do, so they can be heard in the back of a courtroom. Doctors don't acquire this skill. They don't need it. So, now and again Dean will shout. Good for him.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 24 Jan 04 - 11:46 PM

The 'full on' fiscal conservatives are just about fed up with Bush's spending antics... They are 'unionizing' into a band of corporate leaders that Bush will have to listen to, because they fund him... I'll be curious to see how he responds... and conversely... how 'we the people'... are gonna pay...

Like it's our fault... ttr

'sbeen kinda like watching someone buy a 'cherried out' classic automobile... state of the art in it's day... finally paid off, running well, improved mileage, lower emisions, better smoother ride, brand new paint... and room for all yer friends... and then witnessing the rapid wastage ensue as he 'rat races' every kid he comes into contact with... pushing it past it's limit, frying the motor, and denting and scratching it all to hell... without so much as a thank you to the workmanship that provided him with 'the classic joyride'...

But ya know... I am way OK with Saddam in custody! Just because the end did not justify the means (in my mind), doesn't make his confinement a bad thing... I do think the world is safer with Saddam behind bars... but then I also think that the world would be a safer place if Bush was behind bars... with a tall cool one... bemoaning his loss to the landslide victory of the Democratic nominee...
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: Sam L
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 02:52 AM

I'd vote for almost any of the dems against Bush, but I'd also vote for quite a few republicans against him too if I could--even his Dad, whose cynicism disgusted me. He sure makes one long for a Dole.

I prefer even a tax-and-spend liberal to a don't-tax-and-spend-anyway conservative. At least one of them is keeping in touch with reality. A couple of good things are finally happening in Corporationville, must mean things is good. Good is good. There's nothing lower and more unprincipled than the rat-cheese politics of what's in it fer me?

    For fuck's sake, I can stand around looking "presidential." Who can't? Charlie Brown looks more presidential than any actual president I've ever seen. And Linus even more. But a president who thinks he can just unilaterally pre-emt that new F.B.I show Line of Fire for a State Of The Union Address has seriously lost touch with America. If I want to watch a silly cartoon I'll watch the Simpsons, not Beavis (or Butt-head? which?) addresses the nation. I'm not sure Iraq is a mistake in itself, but there were and are plenty of mistakes on the way and in it, anyone who thinks not just doesn't really care what the fuck happens, as long as it doesn't happen to them.
Many languages do not have the category of swear words English does, because most of them are merely antique cultural bias against plain anglo-saxon synonyms for their latin-y equivalents. Cultural bias aside, it's okay to have such a class of words, I think, but over-use tends to erode them.

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: GUEST,Frank Hamilton
Date: 25 Jan 04 - 05:24 PM

Dean knew that he came in third. He was caught up in the moment
which isn't such a crime but politically peculiar. It was time
to stay with the issues and to acknowledge that he needed more
support rather than to yell about conquering the world.

It was bad timing. Anybody that thinks that politics isn't a
branch of show business (how you look on national TV) is naive.
It's about style. (Will we ever really know about Micheal Jackson?)

How candidates are perceived is largely subjective and susceptible
to media spin.

Nobody on this list including myself probably knows any of these
political figures personally and as a result we can only make
assessments based on what we know about the issues which again
is shrouded in the mystery of our limited access to information.

For this reason I don't trust any of the news that I get on
standard TV and even often PBS or NPR. I like ITN on PBS which delivers news from the BBC. I like Pacifica News as well.
Most of us are operating on information that we can't really
validate.

The Dean Scream will be fodder for late night TV jokes and will
probably vanish when the public finds the joke old.



Frank

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 02:45 AM

Up here in Canada, some claim Bush was a deserter during Viet Nam. Can anyone tell me why there is a gap in his military service record from May 1972 to October 1973? Is it appropriate behaviour for a deserter to assume the responsibility of Commander in Chief?

Subject: RE: BS: Tyranny of mandated appropriate behavior
From: LadyJean
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 12:06 AM

I caught Kerry on "60 Minutes". He was a world class weasel about his support of the Iraq war, saying he supported it, because he didn't think it would happen, or words to that effect. OH Please God! give Dean a chance.