BS: Dean's record, why I like it

Subject: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Alice
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 08:23 PM

One of the reasons I started supporting Dean's campaign last summer was the record in Vermont from his work to prevent child abuse. I knew from his speeches that prevention was a big part of his plan in Vermont, prevention of disease, of abuse, of fiscal problems (controlling state spending), of environmental problems. I just read a letter from a Vermonter who was a battered spouse and now I know more about the details of how his prevention and his support of healthy homes and children, helped Vermont in long range goals that he had for welfare reform, crime prevention, education, etc.
The letter follows.
alice

======quote========

In Vermont, Dean showed his commitment to women, families, and small
                              businesses by pushing through legislation and programs that delivered real results.
                              Here, Laurie from Colchester Vermont shares her story.

                              I should probably start by just saying who I am.

                              My name is Laurie Hammond. I own a small business in Colchester, VT. It's a retail
                              store selling figure skating and dance wear.

                              Last Thursday I traveled to New Hampshire to attend Howard Dean rallies in Lebanon
                              and Claremont. I was especially moved when he spoke about the woman with bone
                              cancer he met eight years ago in Brandon, VT. He helped enable the surgery she needed
                              to survive her disease.

                              I, too, met Howard Dean eight years ago in Brandon. We were at the Fourth of July
                              parade. What he didn't know was I was a victim of domestic abuse. In 1996, when I
                              finally found the courage to change the lives of myself and my three daughters, I did not
                              expect what happened next.

                              At a time when my self-esteem was at an all-time low, and I was numb to emotion, I was
                              enveloped by Vermont agencies that joined to form a step-ladder I could climb.

                              The first step on the ladder was the Vermont state police. Under the Dean administration,
                              the Vermont state police had been carefully trained in the area of domestic abuse.

                              The state police had been trained to take you seriously, to educate you. They give you
                              information on what the possibilities are to get away from the situation.

                              Then, after I followed through and pressed charges, I got a letter in the mail that I totally
                              didn't expect. The Vermont Center for Crime Victim Services -- an agency I had no idea
                              even existed -- not only apologized to me because I had been abused in the state of
                              Vermont, but gave my three daughters and me a ten thousand dollar grant for
                              counseling.

                              It not only what we needed most -- counseling on how to climb ourselves out of an
                              abusive situation -- and we're still using that grant today.

                              A few months later, I turned to the Vermont Department of Social Welfare for assistance.
                              They put me into the Reach Up Program, a career-oriented agency. I said I wanted to
                              start my own business.

                              My Reach Up counselor suggested the micro business entrepreneurial training program,
                              which I believe is federally and state funded. (George Bush is trying to cut funds to this
                              program.) It cost six or seven hundred dollars that I didn't have, but the Vermont
                              Department of Employment and Training gave me a full grant to take the course. You're
                              forced to research your market, your demographic, everything you need to know to
                              really form a stable business plan with financial projections, everything you need to start
                              and maintain a successful business. And that's what I ended up doing.

                              I had to start over with nothing -- I had this aging Buick Park Avenue, and that's all I
                              had for collateral. I was turned to Vermont Job Start, which became a program in 1993
                              as mandated in Governor Howard Dean's Economic Progress Act.

                              Where I am today: I'm running a successful retail and manufacturing business. I have
                              two full-time employees beside myself who are making a livable wage. I also have two
                              part-time people working for me. I am contributing to supporting my family -- I have a
                              husband who has a job as well. I'm on the Vermont Job Start board. I am an active
                              Victim's Advocate. I've lobbied in Washington, DC for trying to help funding for all
                              these programs that I benefited from. I also volunteer in the Burlington office for the
                              Dean for America campaign, and I'll do anything I can to see him elected!

                              -- Laurie Hammond

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Amos
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 08:35 PM

Wow.

Great testimonial!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: mg
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 09:19 PM

good programs. What is his suggested health care plan?

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Bobert
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 10:20 PM

Still Green and for Dean

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Jan 04 - 11:45 PM

THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!   

I have been working on the Dean campaign, being seriously psyched about the Doctor from Vermont. After Iowa, the media have annointed John Kerry as the Democratic candidate, and I am seriously bummed. Especially since I saw him on "60 Minutes" and he was a world class weasel.

I needed that encouraging word!

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:19 AM

Thanks, Alice. I am giving Edwards a chance, but realistically I think it's going to come down to Dean and Kerry and I HOPE Dean wins out. That is a powerful, concrete testimonial.

kat

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:12 AM

The delegate votes needed to win the nomination at the Democratic convention will be a majority of more than 4,300. Iowa and New Hampshire together have only 77 delegates. There are far larger delegate states yet to come, where Dean has been building grassroots support over the past year - states like California and Texas.

Mary, Dean would improve the health care system for the country as he did for Vermont.
Here is a page of information on Dean's plan for promoting American health, concrete workable plans. Being a doctor, as well as a governor who has made these programs work, Dean has a much better health care plan, I believe, than the other candidates.

Click here

http://www.deanforamerica.com/site/cg/index.html?type=page&pagename=policy_statement_health

Alice

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Alice
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:17 AM

If you go to the link in my previous post, you will see numerous health care issue links to Dean's record. Here is some of what you will read regarding his success in Vermont on the subject of mental health.

Results from 11 years of Dean's governorship in Vermont:

Reduced Imprisonment‚ Implementation of Vermont‚ mental health crisis response system for children and youth helped significantly reduce the number of youth going into state custody.

Increased Employment Opportunity‚ Vermont‚ employment rate for people with mental illness is twice the national average.

Low Homelessness Rate‚ Vermont‚ rate of homelessness for people with mental illness is far lower than the national average.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:08 PM

I'll get blasted for this, but the population of Vermont is 600,000, with its largest city having 40,000 people in it. Based on that, Dean has the qualifications to be the mayor of a very small city in California. (Well, actually he doesn't, because he knows nothing of ethnic relations.) I'm sorry, may be a nice guy and well positioned on some or all of the substantive issues, but that doesn't qualify one to represent 285 million people and the world's largest military.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:25 PM

heric, you're spreading "received wisdom" that is counter-intuitive as well as contrary to fact. Since the electorate is 52% women, we should only ever elect women presidents. But we don't, because people see other things as more important than gender. If people only voted for folks from their state, we'd have 50 candidates every year, and California would always win. But they don't, because people see other things as more important than the size of the state you come from. The last president the Democrats elected was governor of a small, poor state: Arkansas. This would have given Clinton, as you say, "qualifications to be the mayor of a very small city in California." Only it didn't. It gave him the qualifications to be President.

Dean is also the candidate who knows the MOST about racial diversity. He was born and raised in NYC, where, regardless of what people say, the upper-middle-class has never been separated by firewalls from the racially diverse population of the boroughs. I come from Manhattan myself, spent as much time in Harlem as on Wall Street, picked up a fair amount of Spanish in the streets, etc. I know I can't break out of my whiteness, but neither can ANY of these candidates.

Dean has proven his sensitivity to racial issues. About a month ago he made a crucial speech of which the Black Commentator commented:

"Howard Dean's December 7 speech is the most important statement on race in American politics by a mainstream white politician in nearly 40 years. Nothing remotely comparable has been said by anyone who might become or who has been President of the United States since Lyndon Johnson's June 4, 1965 affirmative action address to the graduating class at Howard University. "

See the full article here

Of course, the media ignored this speech, but politicians and civil rights groups have not. This is why Dean has more endorsements than any other candidate from Black, Latino, Native American and Asian politicians and organizations, including the former candidate Carol Moseley-Braun.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:33 PM

P.S. Dean's speech itself is also at the above link!

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:54 PM

One other link from BC: Jesse Jackson Jr.'s explanation of why Dean will win the south, AND why he will win with Black voters:

Disappointingly, Democrats over several decades, rather than campaigning around common economic needs of southern whites and blacks, have mostly imitated Republicans on social and cultural issues, and failed to challenge around economic issues. White Democrats, South and North, want and need the black vote to win, but then avoid meeting black economic and political expectations that accompany their vote.

In lieu of offering an economic agenda to southern voters, Democrats instead have used the idea of a "regionally balanced ticket" as the way of dealing with this problem.

John F. Kennedy put Lyndon Johnson on the ticket in 1960. LBJ went with Hubert Humphrey in 1964. Jimmy Carter's running mate in 1976 was Walter Mondale. In 1988, Michael Dukakis ran with Lloyd Bentsen. And as the southern white Democratic vote continued to decline, Bill Clinton used a two-pronged strategy in 1992-96, appealing to social conservatism and putting a second southerner on the ticket. They campaigned in support of the death penalty, ending welfare as we know it, and putting an end to the era of big government. Most recently, in 2000, conservative northern Democrat Joseph Lieberman ran alongside southerner Al Gore.

Rather than repeating this stereotypical and condescending approach of appealing to whites in the South with a "balanced ticket" and "social conservatism," Howard Dean dares a new approach - to join whites and blacks around a common economic agenda of good schools and health care.

If Howard Dean wins the nomination around an economic agenda, and can effectively combat the certain Republican tactic of diversion - using social issues openly, and race more subtly, to sublimate economic concerns - then Democrats may once again be able to win in the South and pursue a progressive economic agenda for the benefit of all Americans.

That's Howard Dean's approach and his challenge. I support him because I think it's the right strategy politically, economically and morally.



here's the full article

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 01:58 PM

I still think his best record was when he recorded Surf City with Jan. I could dance to it.

Seriously, I am a bit concerned about Dean's experience just as Heric is. However, Nerd is right in the fact that you really can't compare the size or makeup of the state to the qualificiations of running the country. You can never be sure until they are actually doing the job. How well they have handled the situations they were faced with is a good indication of how they can handle the presidency, but how they work with Congress is a huge issue. Dean seems to have alienated some Democrats, which actually might be a good thing. Still, I can't help but think of Jimmy Carter who approached Washington as if he were truly running the show. Without the ability to work with the Senate & Congress, can any President truly turn things around?

I'm leaning to Dean, but I'm still not sold.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 02:16 PM

What Ron wrote is what has been running through my mind in the interim, wondering if "He's no Bill Clinton" is the end result. That is to say, Clinton founded and steered the Democratic Leadership Council. If Dean has it in him, that's good news.

(PS "Received wisdom" I assume means unthinking parroting? I would call it "Bald-faced obvious common sense.")

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 04:27 PM

Uh, heric, I pointed out that your "Bald-faced obvious common sense" was wrong when it came to Clinton, and that by the same logic we could claim all kinds of absurdities to be pre-requisites to getting elected: being female, from California, etc. It just doesn't work that way. Therefore it is neither obvious nor common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 04:51 PM

Well, the New Hampshire Primary is today, and I voted for Dean. There were signs all over in front of the polling place - every last one was for Dean. Nobody else bothered to show up. Dean's folks have been running polls - I've been called about 3 times by them, and once for Kerry. I DID get a recorded messages from former hockey players inviting me to got hear Clark talk. The only live-person phone calls I received from campaigns were from Dean's. They called this morning and asked if I needed a ride. They chatted outside the polls. The helped direct folks into the building, since the main doors were broken.

There might be someone out there who'd be as good as Dean. There might be a Democrat who might be more likely to beat Bush. I don't know who, though. And I sort of like the idealism and the niceness of the folks who're working for him.

I'm wondering if anybody who wants Bush to remain president will even bother to vote - in this town at least. It seems they're awfully complacent around here, but that's my impression - not even concrete enough to be a generalization.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 04:57 PM

You are allowed to have signs in front of the polling place? In NJ I believe the law is 100 yards from the building. I had a friend who was asked to leave a polling place to remove a campaign button he was wearing.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:09 PM

uh, Nerd we needn't get in a pissing match about anything. Clinton is from a small state, and became President. Acknowledged. Dean might do that too, if he's as good as Clinton, which does not seem likely. I never said anything about any prerequisites for getting elected; those are straw, or else that's some other argument you have going elsewhere. I'm uncomfortable with his training and experience. Maybe he CAN be President. I still wouldn't be comfortable with his training and experience.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Jeri
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:24 PM

The town population is around 2,500. It may be that the laws here are something like "don't block the entrance or harrass people." 100 yards from the building is across the street. They have candy on the tables and a bake sale in the corner, away from the voting stuff. It may be up to the local governments to decide how to handle campaign folks, and I don't think they'd do anything unless a problem occurred. Even then, I think the problem would probably be handled like "Eldron, either get that friggin' LaRouche sign out of my face, or the next time your dog craps in my yard, I'm gonna try out my wife's hair remover on 'im!"

As for the size thing, I don't see how it matters that much.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:29 PM

That's why I like you so much Jeri.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:40 PM

heric, I hate to continue what you call a "pissing match," but you are not being truthful. In the post to which I was responding, you said this (and I quote):

"I'll get blasted for this, but the population of Vermont is 600,000, with its largest city having 40,000 people in it. Based on that, Dean has the qualifications to be the mayor of a very small city in California."

This sounds like you are saying that coming from a small state automatically means you are not qualified to be president. You offered no other reasons besides the size of his state why he should not be qualified. You did not even mention "training and experience," except to snidely and quite incorrectly say in parentheses that he also "knows nothing of ethnic relations." For a detailed refutation of this idea, complete with several links, see my posts above.

Maybe the "training and experience" were as you say "straw," or maybe they were part of an argument YOU have going elsewhere...

I can only respond to what you actually SAID, which as I said before, was neither obvious nor common sense.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 05:57 PM

On ethnic relations, you educated me greatly and I thank you for that. We have a different focus on the other stuff. You seem to be focused on "electability," apparently because you are deeply involved in it. Mine, being far less knowledgeable than you on things Dean, is a simple personal focus: I would be worried about the guy learning how to deal in the big leagues. If he can do it, I will be a very happy man.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: GUEST,heric
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 06:02 PM

But to say that he can do it because Clinton did it is not all that persuasive. How often does a guy like Clinton come around? Once in my lifetime.

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: katlaughing
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:10 PM

When our dog campaigned for Clinton in CT, with a sign that said "Even a dog knows what a bush is for," we had to keep him across the street from the polling place and they had signs posted with info about the 100 feet parameters. Small town Mystic, but they seem to be more strict about things on the coast than up "nawth.":-) GoodonyaJeri for voting for Dean!

Subject: RE: BS: Dean's record, why I like it
From: Nerd
Date: 27 Jan 04 - 10:56 PM

heric,

All I was saying was that it could be done, and has been done, and the most recent example is Clinton. I took your initial post to be about "electability" because that what it appears to be about; the "small state can't win" argument is one of the many spurious electablility arguments out there.

I'm still not sure how it's NOT about "electability," because you use metaphors like "learning to deal in the big leagues." I don't know what that's a metaphor for.

Here's my sense of his performance in big league politics.

(1) He's done the best of any candidate at big league fundraising (which any pol will tell you is the best predictor of success, much better than one's showing in IA and NH). In this, he broke Clinton's record, which shows you precisely one area in which Clinton was NOT once in a lifetime.

(2) Dean has also done the best at putting together a 50 state organization, which will help down the road.

(3) he's come in second best in the combined tally of the first two votes, despite the media trying frantically to destroy him with a dishonestly edited clip.

So in what sense is he a piker compared to any of the others? True, he has fewer delegates than Kerry, but much more money. In the end, money is usually more important at this stage, but the delegates are very important too. So it's kind of neck and neck at the moment.