Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa

Subject: Tech: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: GUEST,An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:07 AM

There is a search for truth going on in Chiff and Fipple about the various terms used in Irish for reels, hornpipes etc., but the level of Gaelic scholarship there isn't quite up to Mudcat standards.

I've made what modest contribution I can, but the denizens of the thread
would welcome an input from Philippa or anyone else who feels qualified to comment.

Subject: RE: Tech: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 06:08 AM

And don't ask me how the 'tech' prefix popped up there, I didn't select any option in the relevant box!

Subject: RE: Tech: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: Peter K (Fionn)
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 10:20 AM

Unless Dale has made a welcome modification, the text size on the Chiff message board is far too small for me.

Subject: RE: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 02:09 PM

Try the session dot org, or better still ask on the Irish dot gov site.

Subject: RE: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: wysiwyg
Date: 11 Feb 04 - 02:26 PM

Fionn, can you not adjust text size in your browser?

~S~

Subject: RE: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: GUEST,the doctor is in
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 06:24 AM

"Fonn" is a melody, "fonn mall" = slow air. Terms for dance tunes are also generally translations and/or transliterations of the terms we use in English. "Port" is a bit confusing, as it can mean a jig or any lively tune. There are various subclasses of jigs, "port singilte", "port dúbailte", "port luascach" are single jig, double jig and slip jig respectively

also port béil = lilt; port a' bhéil (port-a-beul in Scotland) = mouth music (songs to dance tunes)
Luasc-cheol = swing music; snagcheol = syncopated music, jazz
Ríl= reel (although in dancing a reel is "cor"); cornphíopa = hornpipe
máirseáil = march

I've been using "sleamhnán" for a slide, but I'm not sure that's correct. People understand me, anyway.

"Garbhchríoch" means highland, but I don't know if it's used to refer to the tunes; I have heard people say "highlands" in English when talking in Irish about music. A highland is similar to a "sraith-spé" (Strathspey, though a lot of people now refer to that region of Scotland as "Speyside"). And you wouldn't translate "mazurka", though you could spell it "masúrca".

I found some dance terms in "Foclóir Ceoil", a slim dictionary of music published by An Gúm, including
fáine (ring) = circle
rince mór = round dance
rince fada = long dance [progressive dance?]
portchéim = jig step
sleaschéim = sidestep
slabhra = chain
ar aghaidh is ar gcú = advance and retire

I don't see "ciseán", a basket, which is the word we use for a swing (luascadh) with 3 or more people; called a "Christmas" when calling in English for set-dances.

In the north we tend to say "damhsa" (sounds something like "dowsa") rather than "rince" for dance.

There are also some older Gaelic classifications of music & song
suantraí = lullaby, soothing slumber music
geantraí = cheerful, laughter music
goltraí = lament, crying music

caoin, caoineadh = a keen (wail, lamenting song), keening

The Irish spelling of planxty is "plancstaí"
"plearaca" = the humours of ...

piping = "píobaireacht"
singing, chanting & even complaining! = "cantaireacht"
plainchant = "cantaireacht eaglasta" or "cantaireacht reidh"

Subject: RE: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: GUEST,Philippa
Date: 12 Feb 04 - 07:31 AM

I looked at Chipp and Fiffle. "Nanohedron" asked about "crannciuil". I'm not familiar with the term but "crann" is usually a tree, a beam or a mast. "ciùil" is the genitive in Scottish Gaelic of the word "ceòl", (of) music. That form of the genitive appears to have been used in places in Ireland in the past; it is given as an alternative in Dineen's 1904 dictionary. But I don't know whether or not "crannciùil" would be used to describe a hornpipe, as Nanohedron suggests. There certainly is an association between the word "crann" and sailing. I can't find "crannciùil" in Dwelly's dictionary, but interestingly, there is a word "crann-dòrdain" = "sort of music produced by applying the hand to the mouth".

I think the ornamentation called "cranning" does come from the word "crann" , as the Irish Gaelic word "crannáil" can refer to latticework!

Nanohedron also asked about "Seisd", (or séist) which is also Scottish Gaelic and means a chorus or refrain ("curfá" or "loinneóg" in Irish). The word séist can also be used more generally to refer to a melody. I am not aware of séist being used in this sense in Irish, but there is a term "séis cheoil" = a strain of music.

Subject: RE: Irish tune terms - paging Dr Philippa
From: An Pluiméir Ceolmhar
Date: 14 Feb 04 - 07:16 PM

Go raibh maith agaibh go léir.