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BS: bleeding heart liberals

tar_heel 21 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM
Bohdran Killer 21 Feb 04 - 10:20 AM
GUEST,hakman 21 Feb 04 - 10:29 AM
GUEST,hakman 21 Feb 04 - 10:33 AM
GUEST,hakman 21 Feb 04 - 10:35 AM
GUEST 21 Feb 04 - 10:40 AM
GUEST,Ebbie 21 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM
Donuel 21 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM
Donuel 21 Feb 04 - 10:42 AM
Donuel 21 Feb 04 - 10:47 AM
Donuel 21 Feb 04 - 10:49 AM
CarolC 21 Feb 04 - 11:54 AM
Jerry Rasmussen 21 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM
GUEST 21 Feb 04 - 12:10 PM
jimmyt 21 Feb 04 - 12:28 PM
Frankham 21 Feb 04 - 12:53 PM
Peace 21 Feb 04 - 01:02 PM
Peace 21 Feb 04 - 01:06 PM
dianavan 21 Feb 04 - 01:25 PM
GUEST,liberalhater 21 Feb 04 - 03:16 PM
dianavan 21 Feb 04 - 03:27 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Feb 04 - 03:27 PM
artbrooks 21 Feb 04 - 03:31 PM
dianavan 21 Feb 04 - 04:09 PM
GUEST,liberalhater 21 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM
Donuel 21 Feb 04 - 04:32 PM
Big Mick 21 Feb 04 - 04:39 PM
dianavan 21 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM
Sam L 21 Feb 04 - 05:40 PM
dianavan 21 Feb 04 - 05:48 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Feb 04 - 05:53 PM
Walking Eagle 21 Feb 04 - 06:26 PM
kendall 21 Feb 04 - 06:42 PM
McGrath of Harlow 21 Feb 04 - 07:22 PM
Peace 21 Feb 04 - 07:40 PM
Sam L 21 Feb 04 - 10:06 PM
Rapparee 21 Feb 04 - 10:12 PM
Nerd 22 Feb 04 - 12:39 AM
Dave Hanson 22 Feb 04 - 01:03 AM
Nerd 22 Feb 04 - 01:05 AM
Peace 22 Feb 04 - 01:11 AM
Bohdran Killer 22 Feb 04 - 01:36 AM
dianavan 22 Feb 04 - 01:44 AM
Sam L 22 Feb 04 - 02:25 AM
Sam L 22 Feb 04 - 02:56 AM
McGrath of Harlow 22 Feb 04 - 09:17 AM
Rapparee 22 Feb 04 - 10:09 AM
Frankham 22 Feb 04 - 10:40 AM
dianavan 22 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM
GUEST,Shlio 22 Feb 04 - 01:44 PM
kendall 22 Feb 04 - 01:52 PM
Sorcha 22 Feb 04 - 02:24 PM
Bill D 22 Feb 04 - 02:26 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 22 Feb 04 - 02:50 PM
dianavan 22 Feb 04 - 03:06 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 22 Feb 04 - 03:24 PM
Big Mick 22 Feb 04 - 04:36 PM
Peace 22 Feb 04 - 04:46 PM
Little Hawk 22 Feb 04 - 07:09 PM
Nerd 23 Feb 04 - 01:49 AM
dianavan 23 Feb 04 - 01:57 AM
McGrath of Harlow 23 Feb 04 - 03:13 AM
Rustic Rebel 23 Feb 04 - 03:55 AM
Sam L 23 Feb 04 - 08:12 AM
Art Thieme 23 Feb 04 - 03:09 PM
dianavan 23 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM
Jerry Rasmussen 23 Feb 04 - 08:43 PM
Donuel 23 Feb 04 - 09:41 PM
dianavan 23 Feb 04 - 09:47 PM
LadyJean 23 Feb 04 - 10:51 PM
freda underhill 24 Feb 04 - 07:08 AM
dianavan 24 Feb 04 - 12:37 PM
McGrath of Harlow 24 Feb 04 - 01:53 PM
Don Firth 24 Feb 04 - 04:21 PM
Frankham 24 Feb 04 - 04:39 PM
freda underhill 24 Feb 04 - 04:45 PM

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Subject: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: tar_heel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:06 AM

bleeding heart liberals


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Bohdran Killer
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:20 AM

' Love me, I'm a liberal 'Phil Oakes


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,hakman
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:29 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/heart1.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,hakman
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:33 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/love93.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,hakman
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:35 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/earthseed.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:40 AM

Question: Why would anyone take an unbalanced name caller like tarheel seriously?

Answer: They don't.

tarheel, it might be better for your mental health, for you to go crawling back to the flock of right wing fundies you obviously escaped from. I understand that fundies like yourself actually explode in rage all the time, when in the company by thoughtful, deliberating, questioning souls who refuse to be spoonfed a steady diet of 'what to think' pablum.

The scariest thing about people like tarheel, is they can't even tolerate being in the presence of people who think, believe, and act differently than they do. Like the French, for instance.

I'm sure tarheel won't be travelling to France anytime soon because they do speak French there, and eat different foods, and are largely non-religious.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,Ebbie
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM

What's your problem, tar_heel? Surely you're not as full of bitterness and dislike as you come across?


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:41 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushroman.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:42 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/iraqmon.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:47 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/bushcall.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:49 AM

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/stairsgears.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: CarolC
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 11:54 AM

I think he's trying to tell us that he wants to become a bleeding heart liberal.

You go right ahead and become a bleeding heart liberal, tar_heel, but you better go into hiding if you do. I don't think your neo-Nazi friends are going to like it very much.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:00 PM

Dang!

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:10 PM

Donuel, I love iraqmon & stairsgears. They are dead on (and please excuse the grisly pun).

Was tarheel traumatized lately, or what? I mean, what the hell has set this guy off, exploding in hate all over the BS forum? Here is a conservative guy who has been posting normally from down there in North Carolina for a couple of years. Then suddenly he goes off the deep end here.

What is going on with you tarheel, to make you turn on the community you obviously felt part of for the past several years anyway? The fact that the fundies might lose the White House, or what?


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: jimmyt
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:28 PM

My question exactly, Tarheel, I have been arounf here for a couple of years and have chatted with you occasionaly and founf you to be a pretty great guy. I also happen to be a Conservative, but I can't quite figure out what you hope to accomplish with this name calling. Hang in there buddy, maybe get a beer. Relax


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Frankham
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 12:53 PM

The Bush smears have started already. That's what this is all
about. The use of the internet to promote more Bush lies.
It's election time!

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:02 PM

I'm one of them, a bleeding heart liberal. So, what's it to you, Jack?


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:06 PM

Hey, tar heel, that little voice getting to you? You are gonna give yourself ulcers if'n ya don't give yourself a coronary first. You have too much anger and maybe hatred to keep bottled up, so I guess this BHL figures he's glad you can spread it around. Here's a big hug from me to you.

brucie


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 01:25 PM

A high-school student's poster I saw yesterday:

Multiculturalism unites Canada
Racism and hate divides us
Working together makes us strong

Its too bad, tar heel, that people like you attempt to destroy the hopes and dreams of our children.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,liberalhater
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:16 PM

Multiculturalism does not unite, it divides society up into seperate groups. Much better to absorb alien cultures into your own.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:27 PM

Thats what the Irish thought. Come to think of it, so did most Native people.

Whats your own culture? Hollywood?

I prefer to live in a country where people retain their language and learn another. Where there is a will to celebrate our rich diversity and our human sameness. Its far more interesting.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:27 PM

How has it come about that "bleeding heart" is somehow used as some kind of insult. Is the idea that there's something wrong about having a sense of compassion for people who are suffering?

And this from someone who apparently in some way would evidently regard himself as a Christian, no doubt sincerely? I mean, we can all fall down on when it comes to compassion, but to see it as some kind of a failing, that is seriously weird.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: artbrooks
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 03:31 PM

My heart hasn't bled at all lately.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:09 PM

Didn't Christ have a bleeding heart? I think Catholics consider it sacred.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,liberalhater
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:20 PM

What's the point of people retaining their "own" language? It will only encourage them to think of themselves as belonging elsewhere and owning loyalty to a country they do not live in but which their ancestors did. They will remain detached from the country in which they were born and from the country which they cliam to be loyal too. Diversity is the biggest con imaginable and Canada is being destroyed by them.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:32 PM

while the liberalhater dreams of his final soultion...

THis just in!

Drudge: HELEN HUNT is KERRY's LOVE CHILD !!!
http://www.angelfire.com/md2/customviolins/drudge1.jpg


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Big Mick
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:39 PM

I have given this, and the other thread some thought, and I have decided I agree with liberalhater and tar heel. Hence, I am here by on record as opposing this PC bullshit, and these folks that try to impose diversity on us. Hence, I am now calling on all these wonderful neocons to embrace the established order and return this country and all other countries to their roots, to what they were established on. Would someone be so kind as to point me in the direction of the nearest First Nations/Native American language learning school? And the nearest shaman so that I may learn the religous practices? If I am going to live in this country, then by God, I should learn to fit in. And anyone that doesn't agree with this should go back to where they came from..........

See how silly you sound? And I love a European telling us how Canada is tearing itself apart. I spend some time in Canada and they are doing fine. In fact the US could learn from them. Now ..... they have political problems ... but that is something else and who doesn't? But the people are wonderful, the cultures rich. So just stick to telling us what is wrong with yourself, liberalhater, and don't worry about the speck in someone elses eye.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 04:56 PM

Liberalhater - Language does not tie you to one country or another. In fact, the more languages you speak, the better. Retaining the language of your mother insures that you will retain the cultural values and belief systems of your family. Its all about family unity and cultural diversity. Once you become an adult you have the opportunity to take what you like and leave the rest.

Its a pretty good plan as long as everyone knows the game rules of tolerance and respect. It creates a process of growing and learning. It also creates a country that is always in the process of evolving. Fertile ground for world peace and understanding.

Nationalism divides. It also creates a nation of people who are steeped in dogma and ignorance.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sam L
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:40 PM

I'm a liberal, but I mis-trust sentiment, and believe in trying to do the right thing in cold blood, not for anyone's sake but your own.
I think pc diversity is a bit of a sham, sometimes. The differences of people in remote cultures are so much cuter than the differences in our stupid next-door neighbor. Unless you're pretty darn serious about it it's just touristy and sort of cheaply pornographic to get too flirty with culture you don't really live with. It's important to study your own culture, all the boring old junk, to have something to bring to the potluck.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:48 PM

Fred - In Canada (at least Vancouver) the people next door are probably from a different culture. When its time for a potluck, you bring something you know how to cook and enjoy what your neighborhood has offered as well.

When you are steeped in cultural diversity, you either hide away and hate everyone for being different or you get out and see what you may have to learn from them.

It is important to know your roots (even when they when are far reaching) for personal reasons but for social reasons, its better to share.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 05:53 PM

"remote cultures"? - there's nothing remote about the cultures of the people from various places who share the same streets, shops and schools.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Walking Eagle
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 06:26 PM

Liberal Hater,

O si yo. To hi tsu. Ga-do de-tsa doa. Walking Eagle da qua do a.

Tsa yo si ha s? I da li sda yv hv. Hoe wah? Selu ga du hoe wah.

Ah lee, do na da go hv i ( ook sha n )

W.E.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: kendall
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 06:42 PM

how do these meaningless phrases get started? Tree hugger, another totally worthless name


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:22 PM

"Do gooder"


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Peace
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 07:40 PM

Bush


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sam L
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:06 PM

Well, what I'm saying is, there is often a condescending and commercial aspect to what passes for P.C. "cultural diversity." And I've met many people who feel somehow that the racism and civil rights abuses of other cultures are not to be judged from an outside point of view. I go ahead and judge them that way. I'm an American and hold these things to be self-evident. I don't care about anybody's culture and beliefs and blah blah blah. I gave away my tickets to dine with the Dalai Lama to the closest person who cared.
   
I never did understand how so many American liberals, especially writers, could sympathize with the Soviet Union, with it's free speech and artistic expression policies. It was a bunch of stupid thugs, no important difference between them, until Gorbachev, in my very intolerant opinion. Has nothing to do with communism per se, it was just a tragic bad deal.

A lesbian friend once explained to me that the spiritual shahman often is a homosexual. Yeah, that's not too different from the western world, but I guess it sounds cooler.

Remote cultures. Yes, the mountain culture nestled right here in the states is still pretty remote from general culture to the extent that it passes for funny to try to ridicule it on Saturday Night Live last month. Which would be okay if it were funny, but it wasn't. The remoteness of very near things generates exploitation of Otherness, and fear in tourist-y literature and other pop-culture garbage. It can be exploited for "interest" and it is. Look at the rap threads. People mostly hate rap for the parody of itself that it quickly turned into, when it became cool to like rap. That's P.C. diversity at work for you.

Sometimes when I'm walking in the black neighborhood where my kids go to school I get scared, because I think Yikes, what if this was a movie?!


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Rapparee
Date: 21 Feb 04 - 10:12 PM

I LIKE bleeding hearts. My grandmother used to grow them and I have also. They're perennial, too!


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 12:39 AM

jerking knee conservatives


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:03 AM

Surely you mean, arse licking money grabbing conservatives.
eric


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Nerd
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:05 AM

freezing heart conservatives


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:11 AM

frozen tart preservatives


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Bohdran Killer
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:36 AM

Lord preserve us all


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:44 AM

O.K Fred - Now I'm really confused. In Canada, PC stands for the Progressive Conservative party. Is there another meaning? Tell me and I will re-read the post.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sam L
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:25 AM

this is tar heel's best thread yet. The first that is so utterly stupid that I think I get it, in my own way. It's brilliantly dumb, like Cezanne trying to put form into impressionism. I think tar heel is a racist, but I prefer that to several liberals around here who absurdly think they totally aren't, and that everything is warm and fuzzy and okay. M.L. King wasn't afraid of the klan, he was afraid of apathetic idiots who don't really know themselves.

    Hillary Clinton's favorite movie was Six Degrees Of Separation, in which a stupid woman smugly finds herself more connected to a clever black con-artist than to the man she married. It's easier, cooler, and stupid. But I still respect her in many ways, like I respect my North Carolina grandfather, who was a plain racist. It's really not that easy not to be a racist, smarter people than you and me were, and the people who are too smug about it are the scariest.

What's easier for and more fun for me, to deal with my insane, cruel brother? Or to learn some African Djembe drummming? Guess.

   No, I take it back!! Liberals are never shallow, stupid, or merely fashionable! Liberalism doesn't generally appeal to young and unformed minds and stupid celebs! Conservatives are all dummies@!

   I can't vote for Bush, and have to vote against him, but I do wish the Dem frontrunner didn't have the exact opposite view of Iraq that I, a self-confessed liberal, have. I was against the war, until the war, but now the only sane thing to do is to go all the way. I don't care if he looks like Herman Munster, what the hell, Gore looked like Herman Munster in drag. But I wish Kerry'd make some sense, somehow.

   I was never emotionally moved by Billy Graham's crisis of faith after Watergate. Because it's so much cooler to be into Black Mountain college, which was a liberal hotbed fromwhch only the most marginal students like Robert Rauschenberg went on to accomplish anything at all. But it went under, and Graham bought it. And I don't admit to respecting Graham, the only Evangelist to make his finances completely public.

In art you always see this new shocking stuff that you get to know, only to find it's the most worn-out cliche'in the world in new clothes. A small step is bigger than a leap. A little bit of real is bigger than a whole lot of crap. A really liberal mind tries to understand the people it doesn't understand. Racist conservatives talk nasty, but in my experience act decently, while limosine liberals drive by and act too smug to be of any real use to anybody, because it's too small for them, too little too late, pointless, shallow, and beneath them to do the little job they can actually do.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sam L
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:56 AM

dianavan, In the U.S. "P.C." stands for "political Correctness" which is a rather coercive kind of liberal orthodoxy. Be a free-thinker! Like all of us! It has a predictable, mechanical aspect, which is easy for conservatives to make fun of, because it's silly, and based on the current sense of what's okay on t.v. sit-coms more than anything else. Offline, once you get to know someone, you can make all sorts of funny rude remrks without giving offense. I love that, but I live in a cave with my kids, and don't get to do it as much as I'd like.
Take the Mel Gibson thing. We have a Jewish friend from Alabama who believes in the shroud of Turin. ( By co-incidence I've met the scientist who first studied the shroud and some Picassos I was interested in.) But she always seemed ambivalent about her faith so we didn't know what to say after she moved away. We settled on "happy Holidays, Christ Killer!" but that turned out wrong. She'd turned Episcopalian on us! We felt pretty awkward about it, then we didn't anymore.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 09:17 AM

Or Personal Computer. Or Police Constable.

A very flexible set of initials, PC.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Rapparee
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:09 AM

How can someone blame others of a different skin color, religion, nationality, and so on when they can't know each of them? I can only intensely dislike those I know or know of individually. Then I can a) ignore them, b) work to defeat them, or c) if it comes to it, drop a brick them.

Backaways, some Jewish fella said that you'd receive in the same measure you gave. I understand that he came to a bad end, though.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Frankham
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 10:40 AM

Any attempt to paint liberals or conservatives in absolute colors
is bound to fail. This thread is so empty of content that it
is like the inside of a balloon without a tie that expells air
and sails through the air with a blubbering sound.

It sounds like Bush talking about WMDS.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:19 PM

OK Fred - I think I get the point. Maybe its like a comment I made after being in Canada for about five years. I said that if I were Afro-American I would probably prefer living in Seattle than in Vancouver. My Liberal colleagues were shocked (they think everyone in the States is racist and violent). Because, I said, at least in the States, people are out-front about being racists. In Vancouver, the people are so "polite" that you would never know if they were or weren't. At least in the States you would know your enemy. Besides, in the States, I would have my own culture. An Afro American culture that is very established.

You're right about PC. All you have to do is look at the way Natives are treated to know the truth.

But yes, I do love my multi-cultural neighborhood and workplace. I find diversity interesting. So although there are racists here (not only white racists), there is the will to overcome. People are not so entrenched in their beliefs about one another and through education and national policy, each generation becomes a little more accepting.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: GUEST,Shlio
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:44 PM

Well, today I heard that it's no longer "politically correct" to order black coffee, or write on a blackboard. Instead, you have to drink "coffee without cream" and use a chalkboard. I'm not one to go round screaming racist remarks, but would any black person find a drinks order offensive?


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: kendall
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 01:52 PM

Abe Lincoln was one of the ugliest Presidents ever but he did ok.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sorcha
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:24 PM

The funny part, to me, is that Jesus was a bleeding heart liberal....he upset 6,000 years of tradition and religion with his new fangled heresies....helped lepers, sick people, gave away food....etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Bill D
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:26 PM

I am old enough to have been active in the civil rights movement when "black" was the preferred appelation by persons of African heritage..remember "Black Power? It is still a more useful term, as not all dark skinned Americans are African, and "Afro-American" kinda suggests that political clout gets limited to only a part of non-Caucasian, non-Latino, non-Asian citizens.

Complicated, ain't it?


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 02:50 PM

I gotta say, some ideas of liberals (and I am one, more or less) about the black commnity crack me up. They are well-meaning and sincere, but wildly out of focus.

When I first started going to a black church, it was my liberal friends who were most critical of me. My conservative friends didn't seem to have as much trouble with it. The most hilarious comment anyone made was that I shouldn't go to a black church because "that's the only place where they can be black, and if you come into the church, they'll have to stop being black." When I told my friends at the church, they doubled up laughing, and we all had a good time with it. When we'd go to sing in a black church I'd say.. "Watch this... the second that I walk through this door, everyone in the church will stop being black!" I'd ask... "what does that mean?.. you won't be able to eat watermelon if I come in the room?"

The couple who made that comment dedicated a major protion of their life to helping minorites and the poor (they are conservative Republicans, by the way.) Both the husband and the wife had received many awards in recognition of their years of service. They could deal with black folks as a concept, but had never gotten to know them as plain, ordinary folks.

I know that if I asked my black friends if they found it offensive if I ordered black coffee (my two closest black friends both drink their coffe black, and ask for it in that way,) they'd burst out laughing.
I respect the desire not to be offensive,and I praise anyone for making it. But, I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a black who was concerned about someone ordering black coffee. And, they don't call black boards black boards as much any more because most of them are green. Even then, a lot of p[eople call black boards that are green "black boards" Me, for one.

A sense of humor sure helps in this crazy world.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:06 PM

In Canada, black and green boards are called chalk boards. I still can't get used to it.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 03:24 PM

I am the White Sheep in my black gospel quartet...

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Big Mick
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 04:36 PM

Been a Democrat my whole life except for a short flirtation with conservatism in the early 70's. I am a left of center liberal and have worked at some pretty high levels within the Party. This whole "PC" thing just typifies, in my mind, what is wrong with the Party. We allow others to define us, and those others elevate the farthest left part of our Party to the mainstream in the public perception of us. And we happily cruise along letting it happen.

Without using the dreaded appellation, let me describe the idea. Originally it was simply saying that many terms routinely in use were not only improper, but blatantly offensine. "Broads" for women. "Nigger Toes" for Brazil nuts, and on and on. The progressive elements tried to take a look at language and make it so it didn't affect certain elements of society in a subconsciously negative way. Nothing wrong with that, in fact if a society is going to call itself progressive, it is constantly looking for ways to make itself better and more enlightened. But leave it to the radicals to take a wonderful idea, and turn it into something negative. Sure as hell, the old "Thought Police" and "Purity of Thought Cops" rear their ugly heads. And what does the right do? Turns it on us, defines us, instead of us defining ourselves. And we play right into it. But here is a news flash for the smugs among the right wing. The Liberals don't have a lock on this. It is no different than the red baiting McCarthyites did. With one exception. The liberals didn't go on a witch hunt and destroy lives. There are plenty of examples on both side of the aisle, these just come to mind quickly.

MESSAGE TO ALL WOULD BE POLITICO'S AND ACTIVISTS: Never let someone else define you. Before you take positions, make sure they have been well thought out. Once you have taken them, be on guard against the opposition, but more importantly be on guard against the radical elements in your own structure. They love to co opt and take credit.

Mick


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Peace
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 04:46 PM

You think you got troubles? I'm a teacher, and we have lots of whiteboards in the school We also have some blackboards (a few of which are green or blue). I keep showing up with the wrong implement to use on the board. Got markers for the chalkboards and chalk for the whiteboards. Been teaching for 18 years, and my students have trouble seeing what I've written on the boards. Go figger.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Little Hawk
Date: 22 Feb 04 - 07:09 PM

regarding thread title:

tired old cliches


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Nerd
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 01:49 AM

There are some people who love to make fun of "political correctness." Some of them go out of their way to make the effort to avoid hurting feelings sound ridiculous. I suspect that whoever told shlio that "black coffee" and "blackboard" were not P.C. is one of those people. It's one of those convenient stories that I suspect won't hold up, a rumour spread by the anti-P.C. (mainly conservative) lobby.

Fred, I think there's another side to your suggestion that liberalism appeals to "young and unformed minds." I would argue that the tendency of young people toward liberalism (which is itself exaggerated; at Penn most of the students are Republican) is because conservatism quite naturally appeals to people with a stake in the status quo. Because they are less established, young people tend to have less of a stake, old people more. Thus the change from liberalism to conservatism as one gets older, puts a lot of money in the stock market, etc.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 01:57 AM

Nerd - but its the young that keep moving the ideas forward until the mainstream finally accepts them. Old people hate change but once they get used to it, they think they own it and resist any other changes. Anything unknown is to be feared. Hooray for the young and the brave.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:13 AM

That's a terrible oversimplification, dianavan. It all depends on the place and the time and the circumstances.

In its day Nazism and Fascism presented themselves as being about being new and young and rejecting the tired old ways, and a lot of young people bought the idea. "Tomorrow belongs to us".

There's good change and you need to welcome it, even when it's painful. And there's change that's neither good not bad, but just something that happens, and you have to accept it, because that's the way the world works. But there's bad change, and you need to resist it. Sorting out the difference is not easy, whatever age you are.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:55 AM

Tar-heel,
What are you saying?
I can dig* how everyone assumes your trying to start a controversy among the political, but I just don't get it. You have definitely started a very interesting thread but what was your intent?

*dig-old hippy usage of language-meaning, I understand.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Sam L
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 08:12 AM

I lost interest in whatever tarheel is trying to do. But the beauty of this thread is that there's nothing of any substance at all to argue with, so people start talking about whatever they're interested in, in a general vein.

I've always like the journalistic phrase "conducting their own investigation." As in--Mudcat Liberals Conduct Their Own Investigation Into Allegations of Misconduct. Do their Hearts Bleed? Story At 11:00.

Nerd--I don't know if the coffee/blackboard thing is true or not, but you're right. It's like how some silly misunderstanding somewhere is held up to invalidate a larger point. I don't mean to exaggerate young people identifying with liberalism, just to admit into evidence there's shallow and unprincipled ideas all around.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Art Thieme
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 03:09 PM

I suspect it would only be factual to call me this after I'd been shot in that organ by a Fascist.

Art Thieme


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 07:35 PM

McGrath - Yes it is an oversimplification but it is not terrible. I was suggesting to Nerd that the young are often more liberal than because they embrace change while olderer people enjoy the comfort of routine familiarity.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 08:43 PM

For many people, change is just a four letter word. The way that John9 spells it. I've known two people in my life who insisted that there is no such things as a change for the better. By definition, they consider ALL change to be for the worse. Needless to say, they live as sheltered a life as is possible. One of my friends told me that if it was possible, he would never leave the house again. Ossificiation of the heart and mind occurs when you fear change.

Jerry


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Donuel
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 09:41 PM

Fred, I waited for the story at 11 but when the time came there was no story but only 4 soundbites followed by a commercial.

This is par for the course for our local DC TV news shows.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 09:47 PM

...and I don't know too many young people who fear change. Seems to me its mostly the older folks that resist it.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: LadyJean
Date: 23 Feb 04 - 10:51 PM

There's a Catholic Church across the street from my apartment building. By the main entrance there's a bas relief sculpture of Jesus Christ displaying his bleeding heart.
I am not often called Christlike. I am pleased to take bleeding heart as a compliment.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 07:08 AM

and speaking of gross generalisations.......
(where did all those army generals go anyway)

well, i think a lot of young people are in the grip of media & materialism. they work so hard to attain the lifestyle they see people living on TV, that they become enslaved to credit card debt etc, and hypnotised by the propaganda that TV belts out. even their music is manufactured.i'm glad sex in the city is finishing. i've never watched a single episode (well, okay, one maybe!!)

i went to a political talk tonight. there were ten "old" people for every young person there.

the young ones were all out smsing and watching Bachelor.
young people are boring.

so there.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: dianavan
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 12:37 PM

freda, freda, it O.K. I'm old too. I'm not saying ALL old people are stick in the muds but not all young people are boring either. MY kids don't even watch t.v. One is an environmental scientist, the other is an athlete. They are not boring. Compared to the their fast paced lives, I'm pretty darn slow to change and often resist it. They. on the other hand, embrace it.

d


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 01:53 PM

"Embrace change" - that was a Clinton slogan wasn't it?   Always sounded dodgy to me. If it's change for the worse you don't embrace it, you fight it. Cutting services are change. Chopping down forests and concreting over fields are change. Riding roughshod over civil liberties is change.

And in the forefront in fighting against bad changes, as well as for good changes, you find a lot of young people, who aren't fooled by the notion that just because it's change it's to be welcomed or trusted. Radicals rather than liberals.

When you go shopping it's a good idea to examine your change before accepting it. That's a good principle generally.


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Don Firth
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:21 PM

If you believe that

There is something wrong when the richest and most powerful country in the world has over 40 million people who have no health care and another 30 million whose health care coverage is such that they have to fight with their insurance companies to get even partial payment for essential health care when, at the same time, other industrialized countries that are much smaller and far less affluent have excellent health care with full single-payer coverage for all their citizens;

There is something wrong when citizens who have paid into a Social Security system and have reached the age of 65, or who are disabled, receive hardly enough to maintain themselves at even somewhat below the poverty line when the elderly and disabled in much smaller and far less affluent countries live, if not lavishly, at least securely and in relative comfort (the price of one Trident submarine—necessary to keep us safe from fanatical young men with box cutters—would bail a shaky system out for the next twenty years);

There is something wrong when citizens who work loyally for a company for years suddenly find themselves unemployed because the company has decided to move their facilities overseas so they can reduce their labor costs, thereby maximizing the kind of profits that allow their CEOs to earn 240 times as much as the average employee; and when there is a large percentage of citizens who work full time at minimum wage or work at two jobs and still can't make ends meet (sometimes having to sleep in their cars and live out of a $50 a month storage locker because they can't afford rent on even a one-room apartment) when the citizens of much smaller and far less affluent countries, where the work-ethic holds that one should work to live rather than live to work, have laws guaranteeing their citizens at minimum a living wage and protecting them from being forced to work more than 35 hours per week;

There is something wrong when a country passes laws negating the Constitutional protections spelled out in the Bill of Rights in the name of "national security" when history has proven time and time again that this sort of thing is an ominous precursor to creeping dictatorship;

There is something wrong when the government wishes to interfere in the private lives of its citizens to the extent of arrogating to itself the power to determine what medical services a doctor may perform for a woman, and to deciding what sort of affectional and/or sexual relationships may exist between two consenting adults, preventing legalization or sanctification of such relationships, even when the individual cities, states, and local communities are willing to recognize them;

There is something wrong when the quality of education is so poor that a high percentage of high school students are allowed to graduate when they read poorly if at all, can't write a cohesive sentence, don't know enough simple arithmetic to balance a checkbook, can't find Europe on a map, know so little of history that they don't know the difference between the Civil War and World War II, and can't tell you who the current U. S. Vice-President is; and when the federal government's response is to cut funding to schools that don't meet minimal standards when what is needed to remedy the situation is more funding, to make it possible to attract more qualified people into teaching, supply updated textbooks and school supplies, and improve crumbling school facilities;

There is something wrong when, in the face of ample scientific evidence that human waste products, industrial and otherwise, are a major contributing factor to a climate change that could eventually wipe out all life on the planet, the government withdraws from international treaties and rescinds laws against pollution that would help to alleviate the problem, and then passes laws allowing the further exploitation and pollution, in the name of corporate profits, of natural areas that have been set aside as national parks and preserves;

There is something wrong when rather than taking advantage of the "peace dividend" that the collapse of the Soviet Union and the end of the Cold War could have given the world and becoming a shining example of democracy and a strong and benevolent mediator and peacemaker, the country chooses to assert and expand its position as the one remaining "Superpower" by preemptively seizing geopolitically strategic countries, offering the excuse, even when they are third-rate military powers, that they somehow constitute a threat to the United States and the rest of the world, an action that loses many former friends and allies and causes the rest of the world to—rightfully—be suspicious and afraid of us, and contrary to the stated intention, greatly increases the likelihood of terrorist attacks against the U. S. rather than reducing them;

There is something wrong when, in response to loose-knit group of terrorists whose weapons can be purchase in an office supply store (box cutters) or agricultural supply stores (the sort of explosives Timothy McVeigh cobbled together), the government wants to reactivate the "Star Wars" space-based missile defense system and develop an arsenal of tactical nuclear weapons for use "in the field;"

There is something wrong when Kim Jung Il, the premier of North Korea, tells us that if we will give him assurances that we will not attack him, he will discontinue his nuclear program—and we refuse.

If you tend to agree with any or (horrors!) all of these things, that makes you a "bleeding heart liberal."

Ta-ta for now,

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: Frankham
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:39 PM

Liberal means generous. Bleeding heart is a symbol of compassion as Lady Jean says. I advocate that early Americans who founded
the constitution were liberals. Tom Paine, Ben Franklyn, Tom Jefferson would fit into the liberal category. Even George Washington
and Alexander Hamilton would be considered liberal compared to modern day conservatives.

"Bleeding heart liberals" is a perjorative that has no real
meaning. It just means people that want to see taxes used to
improve the living conditions and quality of life for others.

Frank


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Subject: RE: BS: bleeding heart liberals
From: freda underhill
Date: 24 Feb 04 - 04:45 PM

..thats me...

yes, I want a better world so all those boring young people can enjoy it on their tvs..!

well, i guess my three are okay......


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