BS: Who is next of kin?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 03:09 PM

I'm sorry -- good luck to all of you in dealing with this.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 02:05 PM

Sadly news from the hospital means that all this may become very relevant in the next 24 hours. Following a massive stroke my father in law is now beyond recovery and it is only a matter of time ... Thanks for all your thoughts.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 10 Mar 04 - 07:56 AM

Thanks Janet that is very useful information.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: brid widder
Date: 09 Mar 04 - 06:12 PM

Jane... I'm pleased to hear your Father in law is improving... if his step-son is acting as next of kin it may be because he has expressed a wish that that is the case... this is quite helpful.. Who is next of kin? I've been looking into this issue and apparently the phrase 'next of kin' is one not recognised by UK law. However the 'Nearest Relative' (and this would be your daughter)does have rights and responsibilities, if a patient is detained under the Mental Health act and the patient does not have a right to chose who is their nearest relative...

"The nearest relative of a patient detained under the Mental Health Act is determined by Section 26 of the Act. This provides a strict order of precedence to decide which relative is to exercise the role of nearest relative. Although the fact that the patient cannot chose his nearest relative has been confirmed by the Courts to breach the Human Rights Act, nevertheless the provisions of the Act are still in force."

John... well maybe 'ownership' is the wrong word but ....

"There can be no ownership of a dead body as such. However the personal representatives of the deceased have the right to possession of the dead person's body until it is disposed of. The persons entitled to legal possession are the administrator or executor of the deceased's estate. An executor is a person appointed by the deceased's will to deal with the deceased's estate. An administrator is a person appointed by the court for such purpose. If there is no executor it is arguable that the person first entitled to a grant of administration of the estate, should be entitled to determine how the body is disposed of. This is usually the nearest relative - or next of kin. These rights are however subject to the qualifications relating to the coroner's possession of a body.

The right to possession includes the right to disposal of the body. If there is an executor, he is entitled to determine the mode and place of disposal, although he must not spend more than a reasonable amount on funeral expenses without specific authority. The executor has the right for the body to be released into his possession - subject to the qualifications where the coroner is involved - and failure to release a body into the possession of the executor is an offence. If a person who is not entitled to do so, disposes of a body contrary to the intentions of those who do have the right to dispose of the body, they may be liable for damages....


Maggs... unless your mum is likely to be detained under the mental health act she should be able to nominate her chosen next of kin if she so wishes...no-one can overrule her decisions see the link above.... and discuss your fears with the nurses... or ask to speak to the social worker...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mr Red
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:46 AM

My understanding is that a wife would be included. It is one of the things that distinguish marriage from common law wives (who have no legal status in this context).

FWIW I came across a legal term Hotch Pot which basically is residual equity to be shared among the "kin" but sums already allocated are taken into acount in sharing. I guess if you already have more than the divided Hotch Pot you don't get any more. A tricky calculation that could net a lawyer more dosh. Now there's a surprise.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 08:59 PM

Where are you? When I was administrator of one estate here in the U.S. there were heirs making threats on a regular basis. Real contentious bunch. I was more or less stuck with most of their nonsense because a court case would have washed the whole estate into lawyer's pockets and nothing for the heirs.

Make sure your mother has a will, and look into durable power of attorney.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: GUEST,maggs
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 04:30 PM

My problem is I am the next-of-kin to my mother who is presently in hospital and may require long term nursing care. I am the second eldest in the family and the eldest member being male says he can overrule any decision I make along with my mother as null and void. What is the law?

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 11:19 AM

Liz, the other man is not my step brother, nor my children's uncle. No, he was not formerly adopted as he was in his forties when his mother married my father in law. Thanks for the info, Janet, I've obviously watched too many episodes of casualty! The hospital tell me he is a lot better today so keep fingers crossed his recovery continues - thanks everyone for your thoughts.
Jane

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:42 AM

Next of kin does mean exclusively blood relatives, they can be spouses, partners, close friends. Also, adopted children have the same rights as natural children and are considered candidates to be next of kin as any other child would be. Biology is not always a factor, nor should it be.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:39 AM

Where I live next of kin has nothing to do with being a blood relative...next of kin can be anyone declared by a person to be his or her nextof kin. The next of Kin must, of course, agree to this designation. Makes things a lot simpler.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 05:44 AM

I would strongly suggest that if he is capable now, that he nominates someone and gives them instructions as to how he wishes to be treated.

Did your former FinL formally adopt your step-brother? If so, then he should be the one to make the decisions. If not, then it would be his grand daughter, although as stated above, if she is still a minor, you and her uncle should act for her.

Take care dear, thinking of you.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 03:32 AM

I think you'll find that the bodies of deceased persons belong to the state, and not to the next of kin. In the UK anyway.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: open mike
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 12:01 AM

advance directives A.K.A. "D.N.R." or Do Not Re-Suscitate
are documents which are heeded here. If you have agreed
with a witness and your doctor has been informed, the
D.N.R. document superceeds any other orders. Emergency
Responders are trained to abide by the wishes of a D.N.R.
even if other family members differ in opinions. Laurel, E.M.T.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: brid widder
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 08:30 PM

Neither of you should be required... or allowed to make decisions about treatment on behalf of another adult.

I work in the care of the dying...family conflict is very common... one son wants one thing... another wants something else... a third thinks they're both wrong... none of them has the right to decide.

Those closest to the patient should be kept informed...Their views will be sought... but decisions are the responsibility of the doctors... The law in the UK says one person CANNOT give consent on behalf of another adult... and the only person with any 'rights' is the patient. Even 'Advance Directives' are not legally binding... unless very specific...

who is your next of kin is most relevant when you die!!

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: vectis
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 07:19 PM

Your eldest child unless it is a minor. In which case, as that child's mother you will have to make the decisions on his/her behalf.
Good luck Gal
Mary

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: open mike
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 06:20 PM

to pre-plan for such things, a person can be designated as
legal authority for such decisions...a "power of attorney"
or other legal document can be arrnged for., in medical care
as well as financial questions. These arrangements need to be
made while the person is "of sound mind and body" OOPs...
i guess that leaves me out!! too late to make these arrangements...
a personal representative can be appointed by a lawyer....
in the U.S. I believe this is how it is done...

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: brid widder
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 05:25 PM

'if someone other than the next of kin agrees to treatment on the patients behalf the hospital could find themselves in trouble if things go wrong. '

Actually Jane no person can give, or refuse, consent on behalf of another adult...in UK law if a patient is unable to consent to treatment the decision to treat...or how to treat... has to be made by a medical practitioner, if something goes wrong a court would only need to be satisfied that the practioner acted in what was reasonably thought to be 'in the patient's best interest' However who is next of kin is more important if someone dies... the body of the deceased effectivly becomes their 'property'... and they have the responsibility to dispose of it in a proper manner... that can be quite costly... both financially if the deceased has no estate... also emotionally for a young person... time for you & the rest of this chap's extended family to get their heads together I'd think.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 03:38 PM

Mrs. Duck,

If only all of us had wonderful in laws such as you to take care of us in our old age. I know nothing about next of kin (UK law) but I thought you should be congratulated. Here in the states the remaining in-laws would probably shuffle them off to a nursing home and forget them.

Best wishes,

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 03:15 PM

Is your child an adult or a child? You may have to be involved if you are the custodian of his next-of-kin.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Catherine Jayne
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 02:46 PM

I had to put down my next of kin while I was in hospital. As I am not married it is my parents but because my parents live a long way away from me I was allowed to nominate a friend or partner for the doctors to talk to while I was admitted however the nominated person would not have any decision making rights as it has to be a blood relative or spouse.

Sending you lots of energy for this difficult time.

Khatt xxx

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Morticia
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 01:37 PM

By the rules of the Army pension board ( which are probably standard rules) the next of kin is next in line blood relative, so child or grandchild....

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:41 PM

Yes it was an emergency admission and he still isn't fully 'with it'. I don't know who actually took him there and it was two days before we were informed and NOT by the hospital.

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:30 PM

Spouses are first in line, followed by natural children. Consanguinity or blood relationship is the rule.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Who is next of kin?
From:
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:24 PM

It's usual for the hospital to ask a patient for details of next of kin on their interminable forms but, if this was an emergency admission that probably hasn't been done. In a legal sense I think that everyone would expect it to be a blood relative but I'm not sure about that. Have you had a word with the Citizens' Advice Bureau?

Best wishes to your father in law - hope all goes well. When he recovers it may be something to talk to him about.

Subject: BS: Who is next of kin?
From: Mrs.Duck
Date: 03 Mar 04 - 12:17 PM

In UK law who is actually your next of kin? I'm not concerned with inheritance but more who is responsible should you require medical treatment etc. My first husband's father (I was widowed) is currently in hospital following a brain haemorrhage and although we all hope he will make a full recovery there is always the chance that he might not. He had no other children and is himself an only child. He remarried after his wife died (my husband's mother) but his second wife is now also dead. Her son has taken on the task of dealing with the hospital but surely they should deal with the next of kin and since neither he nor I are blood relatives this, I would have thought would be my daughter (his grandaughter). It all seems very confusing and probably doesn't make much difference from our end but if someone other than the next of kin agrees to treatment on the patients behalf the hospital could find themselves in trouble if things go wrong.
A very confused Duck