BS: hotpress pictures

Subject: BS: hotpress pictures
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:05 PM

Sometimes what you *can't* find on the web is even stranger than what you *can* find!

I've been searching without success for a picture of a hot press with clothes in it, showing the immersion, the slatted shelves and the folded clothes. Nearest thing I found was a rug based on an image of a cat settled in a hotpress.

The weird thing is that I mentioned a hot press and discovered that apparently these are unknown in America. Talk about divided by a common language! Imagine living without one! Eeek!

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:10 PM

OK, will you please explain for us Americans what a hot press is? And is it one word or two?

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:16 PM

I think it's both - some people spell it with one word, some with two. I don't know that one's correct and the other not.

It's a cupboard in which is contained an immersion boiler, nowadays usually insulated. Above this sit three or four slatted shelves, set widely apart, on which you can pile folded (hopefully) clothes and bedlinen and towels and so on. Also known as an airing cupboard. A fixture in most houses in Ireland.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Allan C.
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:30 PM

If I am getting the proper mental picture here, the items that are placed on the shelves might possibly still be just a wee bit damp. And then the heat of the press steams the wrinkles away? Is that it?

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:37 PM

I thought airing cupboards were pretty normal household fixtureas. Anyway, hello there JTT........
Cue reply about "normal" households.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Morticia
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:48 PM

try searching on airing cupboard? So far as I know, only the Irish still call them presses.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 06:52 PM

Sounds like an oven to me.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: CarolC
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 07:01 PM

What's an immersion boiler, and what are the immersion boiler and the hotpress for? (What do they do?)

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: akenaton
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 07:13 PM

In the West of Scotland older people still call a cupboard a "press".
Some of these cupboards housed the domestic hot water cylinder.
To make use of the heat from the cylinder ,people shelved the area above ,forming a drying cupboard or "hot press".....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 07:21 PM

In novels of an earlier time I've seen a reference to a "clothespress". Is that the same thing?

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 07:49 PM

My mom used to talk about the clothespresses they had in various homes when she was growing up. Those weren't for airing, per se, as I understand it, but for actually pressing, i.e. ironing the clothes or at least keeping them in a neat fashion after ironing. I've seen them in old colonial house back East, quite often right next to a fireplace. They have a ordinary looking door, but when one opens it, the depth to the back wall of the "closet" is only a few inches. One would hang their clothes there, shut the door, so that it compresses the clothes.

I like the sounds of the airing cupboards, but in the dry, dry West we'd have no need. No humidity to speak of and lots of sunshine to dry things quickly.

I found all kinds of places for sale in the UK that listed airing cupboards and/or hot presses, but no piccies, except for one of a young man who'd gone to sleep in one after a late night at some apparent school!

kat

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:18 PM

I'm guessing here that an immersion heater is what Americans would call a water heater. Is that right? Is this the appliance that heats the household water?

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:28 PM

looks like these?

http://www.tuesdaynightclub.co.uk/Earn_Imag/Air_cup.jpg
http://www.thefireservice.co.uk/airingcup.jpg
http://www.diyrescue.com/Addition%20of%20shower.htm

from this large search (I didn't look at all of them)

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Peace
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 08:57 PM

Bill D:

I don't appreciate that picture of me in the bathing suit being flashed on the 'cat like that.

Bruce M

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 09:42 PM

The "modern equivalent?"

John

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Bill D
Date: 04 Mar 04 - 10:15 PM

lol, brucie...#2, huh? I'm sure the ladies will like it..

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:32 AM

A clothes press is just a cupboard for keeping clothes in, Uncle. A *hot*press, on the other hand, is a specialised cupboard, containing the immersion (yes, the water heater - a copper boiler with an electrical element immersed in it, like an electric kettle's), and above that, shelves made of 1" by 1.5" slats with 1" gaps between them, so the clothes and linen can be kept dry and warm. Usually they have louvred doors to allow passage of air in and out, but not always.

The pictures were some of the ones I'd found, but I've found none that actually shows the whole thing - the immersion at the bottom, and the shelves full of folded clothes and linen above it.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:08 AM

Rejoice! America can now have one! Maytag has reinvented them!

Dryer Cabinet

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Metchosin
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:23 AM

Of course it is described as new and revolutionary. Talk about reinventing the wheel.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:20 AM

There were also "linen presses" these usually had a lot of full-width rather shallow drawers for putting ironed and folded household linen in. We have what you describe in our house and even with an insulating jacket on the hot water cylinder it still seems to get warm enough to air things well.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 12:06 PM

I suppose the reason we Americans don't often use the term "immersion heater" is that we usually heat our water with gas, not electricity. That's "natural" gas, delivered through the city pipeline, if you live in the city; or propane, delivered by truck to your own tank, if you live in the country. That's how it is in Minnesota, anyway. I suppose it could vary regionally.

Come to think of it, I wonder how natural our "natural gas" is.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 01:47 PM

Reading this reminds me of the "Flatley Dryer" that my mother used to dry clothes in when I was a child. It was a tin box, about the size of a small fridge, which contained a row of removable wooden slats to hang washing on. The tin box was heated electrically to allow the washing to dry.
Alternatively, the wooden slats were very useful for beating badly behaved children (they sounded worse than they felt) and the Flatley could be used for keeping large quantities of meat pies warm in, (my father used to supply warm pies to some of the local clubs to be served during the entertainment intervals) although I suspect that the Flatley company wouldn't have reccomended the latter, given the alarming potential for an outbreak of food poisoning in storing food under such conditions.
It's a wonder my father isn't as famous as Sweeney Todd and, considering the amount of left-over pies we ate, that his five children made it to adulthood!
C-flat.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: C-flat
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 01:48 PM

........but we always had warm vests in winter!

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 02:07 PM

We usually heat the water with gas too; but when it's heated, it sits in the boiler, which is typically bunged away in the airing cupboard, and which will have an electric heater that you can switch on when the gas is off.

Like this week, when they were replacing the gas mains in our street, or when you've forgotten to pay the gas people. "Belt and braces" as they say (though I suppose you wouldn't say that in the States, since you don't call them braces.)

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:43 PM

Hey - only one typo. I'll see if a clone can delete the preceding mess.

I'm not sure how much it will contribute to the "fold process" but the differences between us are interesting.

Some differences between US and UK practices will be apparent to US users by looking at the "typical(?)" UK domestic hot water systems shown at
Plumbworld

UK people will have to tell us whether it's really typical.

The illustration for the "Unvented system: (sealed system)" about 2/3 of the way down the page is probably closest to what is common in the US, at least in my area.

The exchange coil shown at the bottom will seldom be used in "domestic water" heating in the US. In places where I've been in the US, any house heating by "water radiators" was always by means of a completely independent system. "Radiators" are still found in a few older homes, but most of them get converted to "forced air" as the old systems break down. Systems to tap the central heating boiler for "domestic water" often get replaced to install a more efficient "tapwater" heater closer to the point(s) of use.

Central fired hot water is used fairly often in multi-dwelling buildings, but the occupants seldom know anything about the systems used in such places. Even where a central boiler is used for space heating, many individual units have their own "domestic water" heater (so they can pay the bill for their own usage?).

The electric "immersion heater" would nearly always be at the very bottom of the tank. A secondary "recovery" element is found rarely – but only in "high priced/deluxe" units not too commonly used.

The "pressure vessel" shown quite prominently in the illustration is seldom used as such in US systems that I've seen. A small "deadhead" piece of pipe, to trap a very small air space as an "anti-hammer" device is sometimes used in the same location, and sometimes (rarely) on the hot water outlet line as well. Occasionally you'll see commercial "anti-surge traps" used there, which are just a "prettier" chunk of empty pipe.

The illustration shows an "expansion relief" valve on the cold water inlet line, and also a "pressure regulator" and a "nonreturn valve," none of which are commonly required by US general or municipal codes in this usage. In a few areas, they may be used, but are generally considered part of the "water inlet system" rather than part of the "hot water system," and would not necessarily be located near the water heating system(s). (Some other water systems, e.g. lawn irrigation, may require even "fancier" devices in some places in the US.)

The general tone of the article implies that UK domestic water is commonly heated by electric heaters. While this is done to some extent in the US, natural gas is much more commonly used, wherever available. This generally means a burner at the bottom of the tank, a "flue pipe" through the middle, and exiting at the top. Codes in most US areas prohibit "anything flammable" within 6 inches (or more) of the exit flue pipe, which pretty well wipes out any space directly above the tank that might be used for storage. Many municipal codes require a specific "clearance" around the entire tank, usually something on the order of 6 inches or so.

(Natural gas, or even propane, has traditionally been much cheaper to use in most parts of the US than electricity, for "bulk heating" applications. Since the gas companies have learned to price it at "what the market will bear," rather than at "cost of production plus fair markup," the situation is changing, and electric heating continues to become more common.)

The common US building codes, particularly for gas water heaters, pretty much rule out the use of the "waste heat" for warming a clothing/linen storage area, since any device that uses "combustion" may be required to be "enclosed" so as to separate it from "living areas" of the home. Although there's much variation in local codes, heaters beyond a certain size are frequently required to be provided with "outside air" for combustion. Since the products required are seldom locally produced, the manufacturers conform to "the most restrictive" codes in order to able to market nationally.

The article states that in the UK the tank itself is commonly made from thin walled copper. Copper in this application is pretty much prohibited by "pressure vessel" codes in the US in general, and in most areas by building codes. (There are always exceptions.) The common material used for the tanks here is steel, heavily galvanized in the cheaper tanks but most commonly "glass lined," which means the interior is glazed with a porcelain coating. "Bare" tanks are seldom seen. The "commercial" product is almost always wrapped with a substantial layer of insulation, usually fiberglass, and the whole thing is inside a thin enamelled steel "case."

My recently installed 40 gallon (that's 9,240 cubic inches) tank is 18 inches in diameter and 56 inches tall (15,000 cubic inches) in its insulated case. I was forced to do significant modifications to "bring to code" with the replacement installation, which required a larger base/drain pan, new overflow line to drain outside the foundation, new flue pipe, and minor changes in water connections. It's installed now in a "closet" that's 27 inches x 27 inches (inside), floor to ceiling. Local codes say that I cannot store anything flammable in that space, or anything within 6 inches of the tank or within 10 inches of the flue pipe.

On the plus(?) side, the insulation is good enough so that there is less than a 2 degree F rise in closet temperature even when the burner is on. There really isn't much waste heat to use to warm your skivvies.

An "interesting" article at Citizen Survey (pdf) implies quite a bit of difference between UK and US practices. It reports that 91.7 percent of respondents use circulating hot water heat, and only 1.2 percent use warm air. These ratios would be essentially reversed in the US, except in a few local areas.

It also says that 88.9 percent of respondents use "mains gas" heating, and only 0.5 percent reported using electric heat. It's likely that the survey dealt mainly with space heating as opposed to "domestic water" heating, so this result is not surprising; although it differs from what's implied by some other sites.

It also strongly suggests that most people who use gas heat don't know what kind of system they have. This would probably be the same as the result to be expected in the US.

Question 18 on the survey reports that 76.3 percent of respondents get their "domestic hot water" (at the tap) from their central heating boiler. Few individual homes in the US have a water based central heating system, so virtually all individual homes, and many apartment units, will have a separate domestic hot water heating unit.

The main difficulty with this Citizens Survey is that I can't identify where it was conducted, or who was queried – except that they were mostly home owners (91.5%) and old farts (or fartesses – they don't say) (48.8% over 60). I'd suspect it was in a larger, mostly metropolitan area?

John

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 03:49 PM

Make that 2 typos. It should'a been "folk process."

Bad day.

Still looking for a "real" cabinet.

John

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 05 Mar 04 - 11:55 PM

Well, this has been an education. Frankly, there's more information here than I ever wanted to know about plumbing systems, but I am impressed.

John, I don't think your statement that "Radiators" are still found in a few older homes, but most of them get converted to "forced air" as the old systems break down holds true in Minnesota. In my neighborhood at least, old-fashioned radiators are still found in most older homes. (In my neighborhood, most homes are older.) In a few older homes, radiators have been replaced by baseboard heating systems which are essentially radiators of a more modern design. Baseboard heating can be installed while leaving the furnace, boiler, and most of the original pipes intact. It would be a much more drastic and expensive remodeling job to replace radiators with forced-air heating, because you'd have to rip your walls apart to install the air ducts, as well as replace the furnace and boiler. I don't know anyone who has done that.

Newer homes tend to be built with forced-air heating, though.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: LadyJean
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 12:05 AM

We had a mangle, a giant steam powered roller, used to iron sheets, tablecloths, and other large items. It had belonged to my grandmother, originally, and it must have dated back to the 1920s. Mother sold it in 1978 to a woman who did laundry for other people. Thereafter she took her good tablecloths to said woman so they could be mangled.
Rosie, our antisocial tabby cat liked to snooze on the mangle. She also liked to watch the clothes in the dryer. We had a box in front of it so she could get a good view.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: open mike
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 02:38 AM

Just for variety I will explain the 3 different systems I use for domestic water heating in my house:
1. A heating coil which is in the wood burning stove, so that water is heated whenever a fire is burning to heat the house. This heat "loop" thermosiphons into an insulated storage tank situated above the stove on the other side of the wall. (Heat rises and the water circulates by pulling cooler water into the stove to absorb the heat THUSLY.)
2. And for summer, when there is plenty of sunshine, I have a solar collector, operating on similar thermosiphon system, with storage tanks above which water rises into. (The storage tanks are "re-cycled" water heaters. Electric ones are the most efficient, as gas ones have a "flue" up the middle which serves as surface area to let heat escape from the water if only used as a reservoir to hold hot water (H20T).
A simpler version of this
3. For times (spring and fall) when it is too hot out to start a fire in the wood stove, but not hot enough for the sun to heat water, I have an on-demand, gas heater which heats water as it flows through the unit. It does not store a tank-full of water, hence: called tankless.

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: GUEST,JTT
Date: 06 Mar 04 - 10:10 AM

Ah yes, brings back the childhood rhyme:

Diiiiid you ever catch your mickey in a mangle?
See it dangle, feel it jangle [pained hissing indrawing of breath]

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 05:47 AM

Immersion heaters were a new convenience when I were a lad! The water was heated by a back boiler behind the coal fire. It circulated to the hot water tank which was in the airing cupboard.

What did we do for hot water when the fire wasn't lit? That's what kettles were for:-) Incidentaly, unless you are using a combi-boiler you will still have a hot water tank, even if the wtaer is heated by gas. It's all these non-plumbing typpes confusing the issue by calling the hot water tank a boiler. One think the hot water tank should never do is boil. You are in trouble if it does!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: hotpress pictures
From: Big John
Date: 07 Mar 04 - 09:15 PM

When I bought my home 34 years ago the "catch" on the door of the hot press was broken. I finally got around to fixing it last week.
The "Missus" was impressed.