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BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride?
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Subject: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:20 PM I would really appreciate some opinions on this topic -- I am embroiled in a really nasty fight on another forum. Here's the situation: Americans on the other forum accuse Canada of having a free defense ride, because we don't have a very large military. They claim that the US military would protect Canada in the event of attack, and that therefore Canada is a parasite. My argument(s) are as follows: 1) Canada is a peaceful country without any enemies, so that we don't need a large military; our chance of being attacked is fairly slim. 2) Canadian troops are famous all over the world for being peacekeepers, going in and cleaning up messes caused by wars involving other countries. 3) Given point 1 above, any major risks to Canada would be based on the fact that we are allies with the US, a country with a lot of enemies. 4) When it is/was necessary, as in the two World Wars, Canada not only participated, but fought above its weight, with terrible losses. Opinions, please? Thank you! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:21 PM I left out the fact that one risk to Canada is that it is next door to the US, 95% of our people live along the border, and any attack on the US would do damage here as well. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Amergin Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:24 PM Do you all have alot of oil resources up there? Because that could be another risk to Canada.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST, heric Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:36 PM With a grossly over-budgeted military ndustrial profit-oriented complex which dwarves the second largest military and the combined militaries of the next X countries, the notion of starting an argument on "hey chip in here you Canadians" is arguing for no purpose. Just noise with no good end to the discussion. Second point, in the two World Wars, the ancestors of today's Canadians and the ancestors of today's Americans participated. That's not us, nor likely to be any of the people you're arguing with. I'd say give it a pass and let them have a win on this one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:47 PM Normally I would agree with you, Heric, but there's another tale to be told here. My husband and I were in Hawaii recently, and on the bus to the airport, the driver asked where we were all from. When we said Canada, an American passenger turned around and snarled that Canada gets (same phrase) a free ride from the US military. Obviously this idea is spreading, probably because we didn't participate in the war in Iraq, which our own intelligence found wasn't justified. The oil thing...yeah, Amergin, I know. We all know it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: TheBigPinkLad Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:48 PM Canada's vulnerability stems directly from living next door to the target of pissed-off 'foreigners.' Those people got some balls asking for Canada to pay for the privilege. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:54 PM The thing that is most dangerous to Canada is our supply of fresh water. Are we getting a free ride? We participate in wars with which we agree. We didn't agree about the present thing in Irag. What does it mean when someone says "free ride"? Canadian losses were terrible in WWI and WWII on a per capita basis. We were used frequently as shock troops. We have left lots of bllod on lots of soil. If our collective courage is being called into question, the people doing th calling don't know us very well. If we aren't dancing to someone else's tune, in the words of my dear departed mom, "Tough Shit!" |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,heric Date: 11 Mar 04 - 02:56 PM I used to live in Honolulu. You get the biggest and pinkest of the BigPinkLads there!! Big Bright Pink Lasses too. (No offense BPL - these are a different breed!) With Giant melting ice cream cones dripping on their vacation clothes. Buffoons. Especially so if they can spout off like that when even the Bushites are scrambling about the false "intelligence." Let them go their way, I'd say. We're stuck with them. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: kendall Date: 11 Mar 04 - 03:20 PM I wish I had been on that bus, that prick would have gotten an earful from a history major! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: PeteBoom Date: 11 Mar 04 - 03:36 PM pdc - Next time they say something of that ilk, invite them to join me and my band mates at the Remembrance Day ceremonies we play every year. Invite them to discuss it with some of the guys, former and current, from the 48th Regt., They can explain to the four guys our drummers were talking with after the parade was dismissed - one was wearing a St. George's Cross, two were wearing DSOs and one a Military Medal. Tell *them* that Canada does not pull its weight. If yer wankers were to look at military & military spending per capita, they'd have a harder time saying stupid things like that. Unless of course, they are being fair and balanced. Pete |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: artbrooks Date: 11 Mar 04 - 03:57 PM The Northamerican Aerospace Defense Command, a joint Canadian-US military organization, has been in existance for about the last 45 years. It has target location equipment (radar) and interdiction assets (fighter aircraft) from both nations, and was the primary line of defense during the cold war. According to the NORAD web site, they have assumed a new mission since September 11, 2001 of tracking possible terrorist threats. In other words, tell them that Canada is and has been actively involved in the defense of the US, and to get stuffed. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:05 PM Actually, what I said to the man on the bus in Honolulu was "bull-fucking-shit!" and a horrible silence fell. My husband told me later that you're supposed to leave the "g" off "fucking," lol. I'm proud to this day that I said it, because it's not my usual language. (Maybe that's why the bus driver let us off first!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: artbrooks Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:17 PM Oh, yeah...also tell them about the Canadian troops on the ground in Afganistan and the Canadian Air Force supply flights into that country, and the Canadian civilian medical mission in Iraq. And then tell them to get stuffed again. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,petr Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:25 PM when US Ambassador Celucci chastized Canada for not supporting the US on IRaq, he said that the US would come to Canadas aid if it needed help, (although we were 3-4 years into both ww1 and 2 before the US joined) essentially he said Canada would lose out economically on because of Chretiens decision - which we are already - never mind the fact Canada has lost soldiers in Afghanistan, (We didnt get attacked in 911) the 30% lumber tarrif still stands (despite nafta rulings against it). - the irony is the US went after Iraq, when the real terror exporters are Saudi Arabia, and Pakistan with their extreme Islamist schools. And when AQ Khan the father of the Pakistani Nuclear bomb, openly admitted to sharing nuclear weapons plans - and a IAEA recently turned up a secret underground market for manufacturing nuke components, missiles etc and selling them to the highest bidder - between Libya, Pakistan, NKorea. ANd Musharraf immediately pardoned Khan (meaning there can be no investigation) there was not a peep from the US state dept. the threat from Iraq is laughable in comparison. Now theyre talking about Canada joining in the anti-missile shield, spending billions on an unproven technology, which will not prevent a bomb smuggled in on a fishing boat entering ny harbour, or a civilian transport plane. THeyd be better off spending the money on improving the gulf between the poorest nations and the west. But then BUsh famously told Senator Biden when he proposed spending 50,000 US$ on schools in Afghanistan, 'I dont do nuance' |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:36 PM I don't know whether this is the correct thread for this or not. If anyone has a better thread to post it on, feel free. An article from Salon.com finally tells what is probably the truth about the US deciding to go into Iraq, the Office of Special Plans, the Pentagon, etc., written by a staff member who was there, and involved, and who is now retired. A good 4-page article that should be widely circulated. Intelligence and Iraq |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:48 PM
I'd say you don't have to argue any farther than that. I can't say Canada does everything right, but I think it's wonderful that Canadians do things differently - and the U.S. should learn from those differences. If the U.S. government would follow Canada's example and spend far less on warfare and far more on health care, that would be a wonderful thing. -Joe Offer in California- |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,jc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:50 PM We sent our troops to Afghanistan to assist the Yanks and they bombed them and said they thought our boys were the enemy! They killed several of them and wounded others. So called friendly fire. I wonder why we didn't want to go to Iraq!! Canada was involved in the second world war long before Uncle Sam got into the fray and then only when Pearl Harbor was attacked. Were they getting a free ride then I wonder! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 04:54 PM Oh good! Ammunition! Back to the fray. (Thanks, Joe Offer -- that was a really nice comment.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Mar 04 - 05:00 PM Canada is such a nice country that we deserve a free ride as far as I'm concerned, but we ain't gettin' one. No sir. And Brucie is right, the greatest danger to Canada is the fact that we have the largest reserves of fresh water in the world. The USA is very interested in that. If we were to deny them access to it, our independence would very soon be just a memory. It is physically impossible for Canada to marshall the resources to militarily defend our whole enormous territory against any major attack from abroad. Therefore, what we must do is hope that no major attack is launched upon us, and keep our wits about us in regards to our relations with: 1. the USA 2. the USA 3. the USA 4. Russia (fairly unlikely) 5. China? (highly unlikely at the moment) 6. the Martians...? - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Chief Chaos Date: 11 Mar 04 - 05:07 PM To my Canadian Mudcat Friends, Please calm down. You have obviously been in the presence of a certain species known as U.S.Americanus Assholus. Those of us with a brain in our heads know the sacrifices that Canada has made in the wars. The idea that you are getting a "free ride" just because you border us is utter nonsense. You suffer from our industry. You suffer from our tourists. We share so much in common that this argument parallels me telling my brother that because I serve in the military and he doesn't that he is getting a free ride. Two different countries with different ideas about how things should be done. You are not our siamese twin and you owe us nothing! To the last post: We were gearing up to fight after the last round of military cuts after WW1 (we never learn) and participating in the lend-lease program (more of a "we're giving you this, maybe we'll see money from it but we realy don't expect to) with the UK. We also were funding and equipping Chenault's Flying Tigers in China fighting the Japanese. It took Pearl Harbor to get the doves plucked and let us throw off the camouflage. From a bumper sticker: Ass, Gas, or Grass - No free rides! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 04 - 05:22 PM Yeah, what CC is saying is important for us to remember. We have too many friends around the world to get nasty with any of them. I know that my dad fought along side Americans in Italy during WWII. Sweat's sweat and blood's blood. The Americans I know are fine people for the most part. I doubt their AH quota on a per capita basis is any more or less than our own. I don't want to offend my neighbours by rehashing history. I know that the Canuck troops who landed at Normandy took it in the teeth just like the Brits and the Yanks. We all died just the same. (My dad told me the Anzacs were good also, and their blood was just as red--he did mention that as a rule they were a bit crazy, but he didn't know whether that was because of their language or the heat.) Those suggesting that Canada is getting a free ride might want to take note that presently Canada is involved in 12 (that's a dozen) peacekeeping operations. We do not play step-an-fetch-it for anyone, and that's that. They can think what they want of us, but the fact is we pull our weight, just as do other civilized governments around the world. Bruce Murdoch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,heric Date: 11 Mar 04 - 05:29 PM (It just occurred to me pdc that even though you should have dropped the "g," your husband was secretly proud that you didn't and didn't know to.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 05:55 PM Maybe, Heric! He just thought it was extremely funny. There have been some good posts on this thread, but I think I will not repeat them to the rightwingnut on the other forum who said Canada is getting a free ride. It would simply provoke another argument, and believe me, he knows how to drop the "g"s! But I love what you all said -- thanks very much for the support, you terrific people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Cluin Date: 11 Mar 04 - 06:43 PM Where do I sign up for my free ride. I could use something free. It's been a long expensive winter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Big Mick Date: 11 Mar 04 - 06:46 PM Don't worry about it, pdc. Someday when Canada annexes the US, it won't make any difference anyway. Seriously, though, we are no different than anyone else. We have assholes that live here. Any Yank that doesn't understand what it means to have a neighbor like Canada needs to spend about a 1/2 hour with me. You have simply run into some of the cretinous amongst us. I have not heard any of this talk, and would certainly take the Canadian position. Canada has been a wonderful neighbor, and a wonderful ally. I wish that US government officials would adapt a more Canadian style on going to war. The Canadians, when they go to war, acquit themselves valiantly and with honor. I haven't looked up the per capita figures, but I would bet the equal or exceed any nation that went to WWI or WWII. But they just don't go flying off every time someone tries to push them to. This is one Yank who does not believe Canada is getting a free ride. In fact, just having this stable ally on our Northern border provides security for the US that is worth a very great deal. All the best, Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:05 PM Mick, we have our share of --er -- goons and lowlifes here too. It's an international epidemic. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,petr Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:29 PM when canada helped a number of diplomat escape in Iran in 1980 we were heroes, how quickly it was forgotten. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:31 PM Right, I'd forgotten that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Gareth Date: 11 Mar 04 - 07:44 PM I have a long tradition - Whenever I am near the reseviors of North and Central Wales, (Water to the English) or the 7 Springs nr Gloucester ( Source of the Thames) I urinate. That way the Saxons are getting recycled Welsh Water. If things develope as I suspect they will perhapos our Canadian friends might do something similar. Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 08:53 PM Right! Much along the same lines as a man is really stupid to beat the woman who prepares his food. Good one. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Peace Date: 11 Mar 04 - 08:57 PM No man is a hero to his valet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Amergin Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:14 PM Blame Canada - South Park Parents Times have changed, Our kids are getting worse They won't obey their parents, They just want to fart and curse No! Blame Canada! With all their beady little eyes, their flapping heads so full of lies Blame Canada! Blame Canada! We need to form a full assault He saw the darn cartoon, and now he's off to join the klan!> but now when I see him, he tells me to fuck myself> Well, Blame Canada! It seems that everything's gone wrong since Canada came along Blame Canada! Blame Canada! Instead he burned up like a piggie on a barbecue> Heck no! Blame Canada! Blame Canada! With all their hockey hubaloo Blame Canada! Shame on Canada! The smut we must stop The trash we must smash Laughter and fun must all be undone We must blame them and cause a fuss Before someone thinks of blaming us! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: flattop Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:15 PM One of Canada's newspapers had a frontpage story recently with a picture of a bus and one of Canada's military helicopters. The bus made the trip across the country faster than the helicopter. In fact, the helicopter was only half way across the country when the story was written, still having breakdowns. Hurrah for the busses, |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 09:23 PM We just got new helicopters (blush). They were way, way, WAY overdue. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Mar 04 - 10:30 PM Well, I think we are really more in need of buses than helicopters, all things considered. I wouldn't want to try flying in a helicopter that was experincing breakdowns. Sounds like a quick trip to the hereafter. - LH |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 11 Mar 04 - 11:35 PM Our government was absolutely shameful on the issue of replacing the old tired helicopters that our troops were using. They were holding them together with paper clips, glue and hope, while the government fiddled and diddled and played politics, risking lives in doing so. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Mooh Date: 11 Mar 04 - 11:43 PM When my Dad died and his local Legion put a veteran's cross in the earth in front of the cenotaph in his honour for the occassion, I was reminded that he once said he was proud that I didn't have to serve as he did. He wasn't anxious for his children to step into the line of fire, he'd done that so that others wouldn't need to. I wonder if his father had felt the same after the previous world war. Anyway, history records the Canadian sacrifices, even as not all the world is educated about them. It is sad that an American would think Canada gets a free ride. Is it an extension to the "if you're not with us you're against us" bullshit? Our contributions are well enough documented by previous posters, but as major partners in trade including war toys, we are hardly unsupportive. Too bad ignorance gets so much press. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: dianavan Date: 12 Mar 04 - 01:57 AM A free ride? A free ride to hell if you ask me. Why would Canada want to ride with the U.S.A.? Obviously, they don't or they would have been alongside in Iraq. Seems to me its the U.S. who wants the free ride. They seem to think they are entitled to most of the world's resources including Canada's water, wood, and electricity, natural gas and fish. A free ride? Nothing free about being neighbors with the biggest bully on the block. We pay a bundle for their so-called security. The biggest fear Canadians have is being swallowed by U.S. greed and/or being collateral damage should someone decide to push them back. I do not recall Canada asking the U.S. for protection. Seems to me its the U.S. always asking Canada for testing grounds, engineering expertise, and air space. In the past, we have obliged but this is changing. We have been good neighbors but we fight our own battles and we pick them carefully. Canada owes the U.S. nothing. Thats just plain arrogance. d |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: harvey andrews Date: 12 Mar 04 - 05:25 AM I have a long tradition - Whenever I am near the reseviors of North and Central Wales, (Water to the English) or the 7 Springs nr Gloucester ( Source of the Thames) I urinate. That way the Saxons are getting recycled Welsh Water. Gareth, when will people like you ever realise that this is the thinking that leads to 911 and what's just happened in Madrid. Saxon indeed! How far back in history do you want to go..apes? So my knee jerk response to your insult is another insult, a jibe about our taxation subsidising your two million people, then you get angry and shout at me and then I hit you, and then you reach for a weapon and so do I, then we recruit followers, then we invade, then we fight then we kill...well done Gareth! Water isn't Welsh it's a resource for humanity, as is compassion,understanding, tolerance and sharing...our only defences against tribalism, nationalism, religion and the other madnesses your attitude above personifies. It's not a joking matter Gareth, it's life or death when it's taken to its logical conclusion.As far as I'm concerned you're welcome to whatever benefits belonging to our island society confers upon you, you can live amongst us,eat our crops, drive our roads, use our hospitals, our schools, marry our women, drink our water, but your piss will never put out the fire your bigotry can start. Can't you see that? The question is what have I, an individual, an "innocent" to you, ever done to you personally that you should want me to drink your piss? Can you not see that by seeing me as a "saxon" and not as an individual human being, you're starting down the road to blowing up trains? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: el ted Date: 12 Mar 04 - 05:31 AM Thanks for Leonard Cohen and Nelly Furtado. Canada rocks! |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Gareth Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:32 AM Harvey - Have you had your sense of humour surgically amputated ? Gareth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Ben Dover Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:37 AM what about neil young and joni mitchell? canada is well hard. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Ben Dover Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:44 AM Anybody else remember that great song from Not the nine o clock news called "failed in Wales" sung to the tune of "Men of Harlech"? Most excellent dude. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Mooh Date: 12 Mar 04 - 10:45 AM dianavan...well said. Peace, Mooh. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Little Hawk Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:02 AM And don't forget Buffy Sainte-Marie, Ian and Sylvia, and Gordon Lightfoot. All Canadians. This country puts forth great singers. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Ben Dover Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:06 AM Clinton Hammond anyone? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Big Mick Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:07 AM Now I am going to throw a little hitch in here. Just as the ignorant fools made comments about Canada, so you are making ignorant comments about the States. Sure we have our problems. Let those without sin cast the first stone. I don't mind pointing out ignorance among my fellow citizens, but when the rest of you start making blanket statements and over generalizations about the US that is just as bad. It reminds me a great deal of the Irish Americans that talk about "the Brits". As long as that type of polarizing shit is out there, we will continue to cannibalize ourselves. The answer, IMO, to the question is no. And it is ignorant to say so. Almost as ignorant as Europeans casting all kinds of blanket statements about Yanks. There is plenty in this world to be upset about. Like GWB. But we are a diverse country, and if you take a look at the polls you will see at least as many folks that don't like what's going on with this administration. You have insulted them, and me. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: GUEST,pdc Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:38 AM Mick, I don't know if your last comment was directed at me or not. If so, I did not intend to insult any Americans. I like some Americans, don't like others, agree with some, disagree with others, etc. etc. I will confess that I loathe your present administration, which I think is damaging your country to a point from which it will be difficult to recover, and is doing a lot of damage to other parts of the world as well, some overt, some covert. You are correct: it is not only bad, but ridiculous to make blanket statements about a country. This is where the difficulty arises -- many people seem to confuse the government of a country with the people of the country. A few years ago I went to China. Some (not many) people I know have asked me how I could go to a Communist country. Guess what -- the government is communist; the people aren't. In fact, some of the ones I met are suffering under communism. The people don't represent their governments. In many cases, the governments don't represent the people either, and I believe that is what is going on in the US right now. Fair enough? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Big Mick Date: 12 Mar 04 - 11:55 AM Hell no, I didn't mean you, pdc. I think you have been very fair. There is just an air creeping into the discussion that seems to indicate that all is grand when it comes to making disparaging comments about the US. We have faults, and many of them. So do others. I just don't want a thread about whether Canada is getting a free ride to turn into another "let's take the piss out of the US". Canada is as good a neighbor, and ally, as can be had. They have their problems. I could go on all day about the Canadian trash that they don't want to bury in their country, so they ship here. And you could fire back, as you have. The simple fact is, we are allies and good neighbors. No one that I associate with feels as has been implied, and I must assure you that given my special relationship with the Canadian folkies I would be in the fore of denouncing anyone who suggested these things in my presence. And I would hope those that know me would also denounce as untrue anyone from Canada who made blanket statements about Yanks. Herd thinking is the source of most conflict in my view. Right and wrong are not, or at least, should not be fluid concepts. Mick |
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Subject: RE: BS: Is Canada getting a Free Ride? From: Peace Date: 12 Mar 04 - 12:18 PM I agree with Mick. Pro-Canadian doesn't and shouldn't have to be anti-America. The Catters here are our friends fer God sake. Let's treat them like friends. When we have specific issues, let's be specific. I don't want to call all Americans bad names; it just ain't so. Enough already. This started because a few assholes someplace called Canada a free-loading, ride-on-the-back of the USA country. The appropriate Canadian response if "Fuck you, Dick or Susan, and the horse you rode in on." The appropriate response is NOT "All Americans are bad." ALL Americans didn't say that. A few did. Let's all ease up a bit. Love and Peace, Bruce Murdoch |
