BS: Middle East: Solutions

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 12:22 PM

A long gime ago, long before you joined the Mudcat, brucie, I said that I think if some Palestinians feel they need to kill themselves in order to promote freedom for their people, they should do it in a way that gets the attention of Israelis without harming any of them. Like blowing themselves up where they can be seen by Israelis but not were they can harm anyone. A bit like the self-immolation of the Buddhist monks during the Vietnam War. It would be much trickier to do that with explosives, and I don't know how it might be accomplished, but it would be preferable to killing civilians.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 12:00 PM

Thank you Carol; I knew we would understand each other. Yes, I am willing to call a spade a shovel and state that in my view, murder is murder. Thank you.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 11:57 AM

Here you go, brucie:

Since the beginning of the al-Aqsa intifada, there has been a sharp increase in the number of attacks perpetrated by Palestinian organizations against Israeli civilians.

And I agree with that site when it says that attacks against civilians are unacceptable. I don't know how many times I have to say that before my having said that gets acknowleged. I have condemned people who kill civilians on both sides. Are you willing to condemn those on the Israeli side who kill civilians, as well as those on the Palestinian side?

it is always fascinating to see the carolc's of this world trying to blame the jews for everything. case in point: the anti-semitic propaganda links that she provides blaming ariel sharon for the massacres at sabra and shatilla.

The link I provided was for the purpose of showing information about Qibya. However, Re: Sabra and Shatilla... the IDF was reponsible for those camps. It had control of who it let into those camps. It stood by while the massacre was taking place and did nothing. Some eyewitnesses (including some Jews) say that some members of the IDF were, in fact, inside the camps during the massacre. It was Jews who found Sharon to have personal responsibility for this massacre. Are you calling those Jews anti-Semites? It looks to me like you think everyone, Jew and non-Jew alike, who disagrees with you is an anti-Semite.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 11:10 AM

it is always fascinating to see the carolc's of this world trying to blame the jews for everything. case in point: the anti-semitic propaganda links that she provides blaming ariel sharon for the massacres at sabra and shatilla.

one group of arabs murders another group of arabs. ok, let's blame a jew. let's repeat the lie loud enough and often enough and all the anti-semites of this world will ingrain it into their orthodoxy.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 02:32 AM

No, Carol, it doesn't. It states that the Palestinians are just as guilty.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 02:30 AM

BTW, your quote from that site supports what I have been saying all along, which is that the policies and actions of the government of Israel have produced exactly the opposite result from the one they say they want. Violence has been increasing... not decreasing. They say they do what they do for security, and yet, the Israelis are far less secure today than they were several years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 02:26 AM

Acceptable? Of course not. Do you see 104 Israeli dead to be acceptable?

Did you not see the part of my last post where I said, "I condemn everyone who kills children, on both sides"?

And I question the figures: no young children killed? At all?

Did you not see the part where I broke down the ages? I grouped all of the children under the age of 13 together for each of the categories because there are small numbers of a lot of ages, and it would be cumbersome to try to post. But you can check it out in the statistics part of that site. They break it down according to age. There have been several very small children and infants of both sides who have been killed.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 01:00 AM

The US has vetoed a motion in the UN condemning Isreal for murdering a civilian in Palestein. Who was it who said "by their actions ye shall know them"?

Thos Palestineans have no manners at all, didn;t their mothers teach their kids not to throw stones at Israeli Tanks? - that's the best weapons most of them have...

Robin

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 12:05 AM

Acceptable? Of course not. Do you see 104 Israeli dead to be acceptable?

And I question the figures: no young children killed? At all?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 27 Mar 04 - 12:02 AM

From B'Tselem

Same source you cite:

Attacks on Israeli Civilians by Palestinians

Since the beginning of the al-Aqsa intifada, there has been a sharp increase in the number of attacks perpetrated by Palestinian organizations against Israeli civilians. These attacks have killed hundreds of Israelis and wounded thousands, including many minors, inside Israel and in the Occupied Territories.

Attacks aimed at civilians undermine all rules of morality and law. Specifically, the intentional killing of civilians is considered a "grave breach" of international humanitarian law and a war crime. Whatever the circumstances, such acts are unjustifiable.

Palestinian organizations raise several arguments to justify attacks on Israeli civilians. The main argument is that "all means are appropriate in fighting against a foreign occupation and to attain independence." This argument is baseless. It is also contrary to the fundamental principle of international humanitarian law, whereby civilians are to be protected from the consequences of warfare. In attacking the other side, therefore, each party must discriminate in selecting its targets and attack only military objects. This principle is part of international customary law; as such, it applies to every state, organization, and person, even those who are not party to any relevant convention.

Palestinian spokespersons distinguish between attacks inside Israel and attacks directed at settlers in the Occupied Territories. They argue that, because the settlements are illegal and many settlers belong to Israel's security forces, settlers are not entitled to the protections granted to civilians by international law.

This argument is readily refuted. The illegality of the settlements has no effect at all on the status of their civilian residents. The settlers constitute a distinctly civilian population, which is entitled to all the protections granted civilians by international law. The Israeli security forces' use of land in the settlements or the membership of some settlers in the Israeli security forces does not affect the status of the other residents living among them, and certainly does not make them proper targets of attack.

B'Tselem strongly opposes the attempts to justify attacks against Israeli civilians by using distorted interpretations of international law. Furthermore, B'Tselem demands that the Palestinian Authority do everything within its power to prevent future attacks and to prosecute the individuals involved in past attacks.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 09:08 PM

And also Qibya

Witnesses had been uniform in describing their experience as a night of horror, during which Israeli soldiers had moved about in their village blowing up buildings, firing into doorways and windows with automatic weapons and throwing hand grenades. A number of unexploded hand grenades, marked with Hebrew letters indicating recent Israel manufacture, and three bags of TNT had been found in and about the village. An emergency meeting of the Mixed Armistice Commission had been held in the afternoon of 15 October and a resolution condemning the regular Israel army for its attack on Qibya, as a breach of article III, paragraph 2,62/ of the Israel-Jordan General Armistice Agreement, had been adopted by a majority vote. The Chief of Staff stated that he had
discussed with the Acting Chairman of the Mixed Armistice Commission the reasons why he had supported the resolution condemning the Israel army for having carried out the attack, and that, after listening to his explanations, he had asked him to state them in writing; the technical arguments given by Commander Hutchison in his memorandum appeared to the Chief of Staff to be convincing.


From B'Tselem

Minors under the age of 18 killed between 29 September 2000, and 10 March 2004-

Palestinian minors killed by IDF:

460

81 age 17
86 age 16
72 age 15
61 age 14
161 age 13 and under

Plus 28 minors under 18 killed by IDF during extrajudicial executions

Palestinian minors killed by Israeli civilians:

3, including a 2 month old baby

Israeli minors killed by Palestinians:

104 under age 18

18 age 17
18 age 16
21 age 15
41 age 13 and under

I condemn everyone who kills children, on both sides.

Considering the numbers of Palestinian children who have been killed by the IDF and by Israeli civilians, and with the Palestinians not having a military of their own, how do you propose, brucie, that the Palestinians should protect themselves? I keep hearing that the Israelis have a right to protect themselves. Who will protect the Palestinians from the Israelis? Do you consider 460 Palistinian minors, 161 of them age 13 and under, to be acceptable numbers?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 07:46 PM

Maybe that's why I think assassins will make a comeback. They can get pretty selective. More so than tanks and bombs.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 07:45 PM

GUEST: What I said was clear. I am aware the Israel has killed kids. BUT, I am equally aware that the Palestinians have also. Understand that.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 07:42 PM

I saw little kids in some of the pictures in those links, brucie.

You're not actually saying anything

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 07:26 PM

I know that Sharon is a bad man. I also know that the leaders of groups like Hamas kill lots of little kids. I'm not saying one side has clean hands. But, that then means that both side are dirty, and I'd like that to be stated.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,CarolCfriend
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 06:46 PM

Click
Click
Click
Click

Another slice, anyone?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:55 PM

Brucie, I'm going to get some information about Ariel Sharon for you. I might not be able to post it until later today or some time tomorrow.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:30 PM

The people to whom I refer point rifles at kids, civilians, and kill them to make a statement. They deserve what they try to serve.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:06 PM

Just a generic sort of "we" for the purpose of this discussion.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:06 PM

I read 'We' as 'Us'... you know... the ones who 'fight the good fight', and all that....
Apparently we can't expect Arafat to be around for much longer, though.

And weren't the Taliban heads of Government, as well?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: C-Watch
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 05:01 PM

Who is the "we" that you represent?

I suspect the Israelis take a different approach to the recognized head of a "government" than to the leader of a terrorist organization. Hence, we see that Arafat, who is, in many ways, the head of both a government and a terrorist organization, is still alive.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 04:59 PM

Not at all. If people are terrorists, get 'em.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 04:56 PM

So when do we call for squads to go in and take out Ariel Sharon? Or do we have a double standard when it comes to matters of this sort?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 04:04 PM

Bobert I note your last post,and agree with your ideas regarding US involvement to solve the problem.   Unfortunately the US at the moment only appears interested in power and influence to safeguard oil supplies.
Teribus... you accuse me of over simplification,and its true I try to keep my thoughts on the Middle East very simple,as the real issues tend to become blurred by too much detail.
Both the fundamentalist Moslems and the conservative Jews use the unfortunate Palistinians as pawns in their quest for power and territory.In my opinion this situation must lead sooner or later,(I feel sooner rather than later) to a global conflict between Islam and the West,the beginnings of which we can see the the various bomb outrages in the last year or so .   One serious biological attack would almost certainly set the whole thing rolling.
Islam is more than a religion, and Capitalism more than an economic system ,and both are quite capable of "running counties ".
Capitalism certainly runs the Western "democracies",and Islamic fundamentalism "runs"a number of countries ,with many more "in the pipeline"...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: C-Watch
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 02:52 PM

I would note that Israel twice tried, convicted and imprisoned Yassin. They released him the first time as a goodwill gesture when peace negotiations with the Palestinians looked promising. They released him the second time as one of hundreds of Palestinians exchanged for two captured Israelis.

BTW, look at the many prisoner exchanges that Israel has participated in over the years. Virtually every time, hundreds of Palestinian prisoners, including mass murderers, have been exchanged for one or two Israelis.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 02:41 PM

Heck, no, let me go a step further: I think 'terrorists' who kill people ought to be located, interrogated and shot. If it takes special squads to do that, so be it. Law is a f#ckin' joke if everyone isn't observing it.

When that Lybian asshole was fronting and supporting terrorists, the Yanks sent a few planes in to deliver a message of sorts. They hit his family instead of him. That was not good, but he went real silent after that. I hope the spirits of the people at Lockerbie rest easier as a result.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 02:29 PM

And people bitched when the Mossad did its job after the Olympics. They screwed up and killed an innocent person in Sweden (?), and they shut the operation down. I think the 'correct' way to deal with terrorists (freedome fighters--screw the semantics) is with squads that just go take care of business. Bombing ain't too surgical, and lots of innocents people get hurt. Both Palestinians and Israelis are aware of that. Assassination is against the law; so is killing kids on school busses. If I had to choose between the two . . . .

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 01:31 PM

Palesitnians are closer to a terrorist organization than a country?

That's slinging a mighty big hammer there.
I'm sure that there are many peace loving palestinians and israelis out there who would love to just settle this over tea and honey cakes. People on both sides of this conflict are manipulating their people and their media to their best advantage.

I'll say it again because nobody bothered to answer.
Israel can continue to make martyrs all it wants (even though assassination is against int'l law). The only real problem I see is that they aren't trying to capture and try these people before a court of law. Wouldn't they be better off capturing them and then interrogating them to gain more info? What happened to the days that the Massad was smart enough and competent enough to penetrate the enemy and do them in in ways that left only them dead with no "collateral" damage (I mean innocents there)?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 12:45 PM

I don't know, Teribus. Maybe the same way you learned what "the Palestinian side of the argument" (as represented by Hamas) is.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 12:39 PM

CarolC,

Irrespective of who, how could I establish whether, or not he/she was good if they were dead? Testimonials from friends perhaps? How?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:29 AM

I disagree, Guest, C-watch. I think it was the cheap attacks leveled against me in that other thread that caused its disintegration.

I'm interested to see Teribus' and Larry K's response to my last post.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:22 AM

One issue that nobody has adressed is time.    I can assure you that this is of monumental concern in Israel.   The arab population in Israel is growing at a far higher rate than the Jewish population.   There are projections that the arabs will outnumber the Jews in Israel in the next 10/15/25 years depending on who you ask.

Larry K,

That statement is incorrect. The projections are not that Arabs will outnumber Jews "in Israel." Rather, given the differential birthrates, the projection is that Arabs will eventually outnumber Jews in the combined populations of Israel and the occupied territories. That is why a two-state solution, a fact acknowledged even by rightwing Israelis like Ariel Sharon, is imperative if Israel is to remain Jewish and democratic.

The only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian, right Teribus and Larry K?

CarolC,

Such cheap attacks, implying vicious and absent motives to posters with whom you disagree, are what led to the disintegration of the previous thread.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Jim McCallan
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:15 AM

We negotiate with terrorists all the time, Larry K.
We just choose the ones which are politically expedient at the time, that's all.

Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 11:04 AM

The only good Palestinian is a dead Palestinian, right Teribus and Larry K?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 10:49 AM

One issue that nobody has adressed is time.    I can assure you that this is of monumental concern in Israel.   The arab population in Israel is growing at a far higher rate than the Jewish population.   There are projections that the arabs will outnumber the Jews in Israel in the next 10/15/25 years depending on who you ask.   What happens then?   Does Israel become South Africa where the minority rule the majority?   This is a major issue that must be addressed.   The status quo cannot be maintained as it is with terrorism and retaliation.   time is running our for Israel.

In dealing with Palestineans right to have a homeland you have to ask the question- Is it a country or a people.   If so please asnwer these questions:

What is their currency?   What year did they become a country?   What is their constitution?   What is their progression of leadership? What is their election process? Where does their currency compare on the world market? Are they recognized by the UN or other countries? Do they have an embassy or ambassadors?   Do they have any formal treaties or alliances?   I could go on.

My contention is that the Palestinians are far closer to a terrorist organization than they are to a country.   Therefore negotiation is not an option.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Teribus
Date: 26 Mar 04 - 09:57 AM

akenaton's, "even bigger struggle between Islam and Western capitalism" is a gross over-simplification, in which he compares apples to oranges.

Islam is a religion, capitalism is a system of economics, neither are political parties and neither can "run" a country.

I can think of many "Islamic" countries that totally embrace "western capitalism" without any problems and thrive doing so.

That a small minority of Islamic fundamentalists have a problem with western capitalism I can see, because the benefits the latter brings tends to undermine the power to control of the fundamentalist leaders.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 08:33 PM

Yo, Ake, I'm not ready to throw in the towel quite yet. The Palestianians aren't like some backwoods hillbilly tribe. They understand capatilism purdy well. Like I say, there is hope there if the US would get behind someone else's framework.... But, no, if the US can't fix it then it can't be fixed! What a crock!

And the beat goes on, and on........

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 08:28 PM

Up till now what's been happening in Israel isn't really about that, it's about two bunches of people who've been pushed their homes trying to find some way of living together in a small patch of land. Compoicated by considerations of electoral politics in the USA.

This assassination has probably pushed it a lot closer to being subsumed in the wider conflict akenaton refers to; I think this is one of the main reasons it happened.

But I'd disagree with the formula "struggle between Islam and Western capitalism"; there are two struggles going on in the world today. One is a struggle by predatory capitalism to assimilate just about every other form of activity (a bit like the Borg in Star Trek), and the other is a bid by a cult within Islam to take advantage of this situation to achieve a dominant position.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: akenaton
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 08:04 PM

Everyone seems to be getting bogged down in trying to find a solution to the "Palistine problem". what we should realise is that the Israeli, Palistinian conflict is only the sharp end of an even bigger struggle between Islam and Western capitalism,and the people, as always, are being used as pawns.
To my mind there will never be a "solution", as there are too many vested interests willing to escalate the violence.
Israel may be the theatre today,but the shows' coming to a venue near YOU someday soon ....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Bobert
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:33 PM

Well gol danged, GUEST... That was purdy danged rude on yer part... Hey, why ya' associatin' me with the nuking of Japan. I weren't even born yet so I have as good an alibi as one can come up with.

But, with that said, I think it was wrong to drop a nuclear bomb on Japan. And the second one was beyond wrong. It was dispicable and as immoral as anything that has ever been done....

All that needed top be done was tocommunicate to the Japanese that the US would be conducting a "test" somewhere off its coast line without divulging where exactly it would occur. This would have demonstrated the US's power and forced the same results, sans the massive collaterial damage...

As fir the Middle East? I'msticken with the plan I've put forth so very many times. The Saudi Porposal (Mitchell proposal).

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 07:23 PM

I'm quite able to imagine that there are people in the business of terorism who are quite capable of doing that kind of stuff - but I have a nasty feeling that there is something a bit too neat and tidy about that story, with the photos and all.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST,C-watch
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 03:47 PM

For the second time in a week, Arafat's Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigade strapped a bomb onto a child and tried to blow him up at an Israeli chekpoint. This time a mentally retarded boy.

The family of the teenager said he was gullible and easily manipulated.

"He doesn't know anything, and he has the intelligence of a 12-year-old," said his brother, Hosni.

In the newspaper interview, Abdo said he wanted to reach paradise, which he was taught in school was the reward for suicide bombers.

"A river of honey, a river of wine and 72 virgins. Since I have been studying Quran I know about the sweet life that waits there (in Paradise)," the newspaper quoted the boy as saying.

Here's the story.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Teribus
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 06:55 AM

McGrath of Harlow - 23 Mar 04 - 04:45 PM

"And with Hamas greatly strengthened now by this assassination... That, I think, is one of the main reasons it happened."

I believe you could be right there Kevin. The emergence of Hamas as the organisation speaking for the Palestinian people would do two things:

1. Get rid of Arafat and the Palestinian Authority, which has never had any authority, or at least has never exercised it for fear of losing what support it has. Arafat's motives as leader of this organisation ran more towards financial gain - any solution cuts off his own opportunities to rob the Palestinian people.

2. It injects a bit of reality into the "Peace Process". On the one side you will have the Israeli's and on the other side you will have the Palestinian organisation whose sole reported aim is the total destruction of the State of Israel.

The Israeli's have shown time and time again that they are fully prepared to negotiate. The Palestinian Authority has flirted with the idea but have proved as constant in their intent as a wind-sock, shackled to the likes of the Al-Aqsa Brigade, Hamas and Hezbollah, whose position is stated time and time again as non-negotiable.

At last the Palestinian side of the arguement will be shown clearly to all.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 25 Mar 04 - 12:04 AM

How many Zionists does it take to screw a lightbulb?

Zionists don't screw lightbulbs, they screw Palestineans.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Chief Chaos
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 12:38 PM

Everyone is an example.
Either bad or good.
Wisdom is knowing which is which.
Intelligence is choosing to emulate the good.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: Peace
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:53 AM

Well, is it time yet to whitewash the Palestinians? Just curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: CarolC
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:30 AM

CarolC, another American, a citizen of the most imperialistic occupying force of the contemporary world.

You're absulotely dead-on correct there.

Israel's occupation can be argued on the basis of direct defense and terrorist threats.

No it can't. It's creating those "threats" itself with it's own behavior, just as the US is creating the very "threats" it purports to be fighting against with its own behavior.

CarolC's country, though, commits war and occupation, and kills 10 times more innocent civilians in a year than Israel has in 37 years, purely in the name of oil and to avenge a slight to CarolC's president's daddy.

Yes. And I condemn the actions of my country in this respect. And my country is also responsible for the many hundreds of innocent Palestinians and the several hundreds of innocent Israelis killed in recent years, by virtue of having paid for the weapons that make all of this possible.

As long as CarolC's own country is occupying Iraq and any other country, nobody in Israel has anything to learn from any American, escpecially one named CarolC.

On the contrary. They can, if they want, learn that it is not always in one's best interest to follow the leaders of one's country like a bunch of sheep. Sometimes our leaders are WRONG. I know the leaders of my country are, and so are the leaders of Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: DougR
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 11:15 AM

GUEST is on a roll!

Well, Kevin, I would guess that he does not live in Great Britain, the U. S., and certainly not West Virginia!

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 10:56 AM

And GUEST lives where?

Subject: RE: BS: Middle East: Solutions
From: GUEST
Date: 24 Mar 04 - 09:28 AM

It's also always amusing to read the endless moralizing of McGrath of Harlow.

McGrath of Harlow, a citizen of the country whose imperialistic empire is responsible for the mess that is today's Middle East.

McGrath of Harlow, a citizen of the country that is America's main accomplice in a war and occupation that has killed 10 times more innocent civilians in a year than Israel has in 37 years.

As long as McGarth of Harlow's own country continiues to behave as it does, nobody in Israel has anything to learn from any Brit, escpecially one named McGrath of Harlow.