BS: Most Iraquis better off

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: Amos
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 11:07 AM

Teribus:

You ad hominem sarcasm is uncivil and irrelevant; and furthermore you do not address the possibility that left tot heir own devices, and without the earlier US support on Saddam's side, the history of the region might have been very different. In any case, whether deleting Saddam was a positive step of not, the fact remains that a huge wave of pain, loss, injury, and dislocation has been caused by the Bush decision to take the Iraq issue to a war level and invade. That single murderous decision has cost thousands of lives.

Good think, at least, that we got a regime change out of all those corpses.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 10:20 AM

Deda,

You're absolutely priceless, best laugh I've had today - thanks.

Especially liked the last bit, "...we would have let them work out their own destiny; we would have let them learn to fish, so to speak."

It would have had to have been "so to speak" if you had been a Marsh Arab, living in the South, as Saddam forceably displaced about a million of them, then drained their marshes (where couldn't do that he contaminated the water). Prior to Saddam, who it appears you would have preferred to remain in power until ???, turning his malevolent and beady eyes on the Ma'adan, their fishing industry used to supply about 66,000 tonnes of fish a year.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: Deda
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:58 AM

Maybe we didn't do such a bad thing? I'm not too clear on this "we" thing. Halliburton is making a tidy profit. All the reconstruction contracts are being handed out to US companies, none to locals, no matter how capable they may be. Can you say "war profiteering"? How about "looting"? "Cronyism"? It isn't only the Iraqi dead who haven't been interviewed -- it's the newly homeless, the newly para- and quadriplegic, the newly widowed and orphaned. We've sure opened up a world of great opportunities for them!

I think that if the US had never propped Saddam up in the first place, he would have been out of power long ago. And if "our oil" hadn't somehow been misplaced under their sand, we would have let them work out their own destiny; we would have let them learn to fish, so to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:51 AM

I absoltely do not trust a word any goverments,the Guardian, the BBC,Al Quaida or any other bodies tell me. I am familiar with the standarsds of honesty of those people. But I do tend to place more weight on slowly built up impressions over periods of time from people I know well: because you then get into a position where you can weigh the evidence a little more carefully. What my Afghan friends told me turned out to much more right han anything the BBC or the government said about the situation there. I have the feeling that the same will go for what I hear from iraq. I may, of course, be totally wrong, and events can always take unexpected turns.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: mooman
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:45 AM

I'm pleased to hear it and they certainly deserve to be.

But it still seems like a monstrous quagmire of an awful mess in Iraq to me and I can't personally see how it will pan out.

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: Sam L
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:38 AM

Nevertheless, I'd rather hope for the best than hope I'll get to say I told you so.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:34 AM

I have a hard time believing ANYTHING my government tells me after The Gulf of Tonkin non incident, Watergate, Iran Contra, Arms for hostages Granada, Panama and the latest pack of lies, WMD.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: Teribus
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 09:28 AM

Wasn't any official agencies involved in the study being referred to, and I don't suppose that greg's friends regard him as an official agency.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: freda underhill
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:28 AM

..collecting reliable statistics in a country where you could be executed for showing dissent is an interesting process.

people in Iraq are deeply distrustful of any official agencies, for very good reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:26 AM

Cant agree with that theory, Larry. Saddam killed millions(literally, I believe), but the percentage of people agreeing with him didnt seem to go up much.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: InOBU
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:24 AM

Kendall my brother, ya beat me to it. The friend speaks my mind. Kill enough folks who don't agree, and the percent of folks you agree with rises. Barbaric. Cheers Larry
PS It backfired in Viet Nam, created a regionalized war, which we were bound to loose. Those who don't learn from history...

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: kendall
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 08:06 AM

Did anyone interview the dead?

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 04:20 AM

I know a lot of Iraqis who I see on a regular almost daily basis, so I have acquired a feel for the changes that are in the air in casual conversation. Certainly the results of this poll ring true in terms of what the people I know are thinking( as far is that is evidenced in small talk).As well, there is the growing number of people who have,or are actively contemplating and planning, going over there for a visit, for example. This was virtually unheard of a year ago.

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: GUEST,Jim McCallan
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 04:11 AM

The rest of the statistics

Subject: RE: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: greg stephens
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:36 AM

made for very funny listening on Radio 4 this morning. We had the interesting contrast of john Humphreys lovingly getting stuck into the latest "Tony Blair murdered David kelly"-type story, and then having to grit his teeth and read out "most Iraqis think things are going rather well actually" (carefully adding, via tone of voice alone, "poor little deluded Arab buggers, what do they know, they dont have the benefit of the Today programme").

Subject: BS: Most Iraquis better off
From: GUEST,Keith A o Hertford
Date: 16 Mar 04 - 03:30 AM

An opinion poll by an Oxford based firm found that 70% believed their lives had improved over the last year, and almost all expected improvement in the year to come.
Sadaam would have gone eventually anyway, and transitions tend to be bloody. Maybe we didn't do such a bad job?