BS: Water -our next war?

Subject: BS: Water our next war?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:00 AM

I have always thought this to be the world's number one problem, and it only surprises me that so little is written about it...and the years keep passing...xx..e

http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/SEO285670.htm

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Rapparee
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:00 AM

Yes, and it's already part of the problems in Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 09:16 AM

There are really only two key economic issue and water is one of them, energy being the other. Solve those, and the world gets a new lease on life!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:21 AM

Don`t you believe it Amos. All the while there are people on this earth attempting to force their culture onto those who would reject it, no amount of water and energy will cure the disease.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Peace
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:03 PM

Canada has about 1/5 of the world's fresh water. Think the USA knows this?

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:12 PM

Enforcing culture is much less likely when the basic need levels represented by energy and water are completely taken care of.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:12 PM

There are too many people in the world, and a finite amount of water, it'll all end in tears.
John

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Mr Red
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:22 PM

Why did Israel keep the Golan Heights so long?
before the long discussions start. The diverting of water by boring and tunnelling is on record, it changed the path of water in favour of Israel.
The river Jordan is reputed to be a trickle of it's former self.
Culture may be the statement for dispute but water figures pretty large in a lot of those disputes.
The other factor is the rising sea levels due to global warming and the diminution of the coastal areas.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 04:58 PM

The only question is...will the oil crunch hit in advance of the water crunch? If so, there will be a world war over oil first. The survivors will not really have the wherewithal to fight another one over water, I don't think.

However, they are already fighting over water...to some extent. It's just that oil is a little more urgent to industry right now, so oil gets more immediate attention.

- LH

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:09 PM

All too likely, I'm afraid.

Hugh - I'll join those disagreeing with you. Cultural disputes arise out of ignorance (prejudice, after all, is almost entirely a subset of ignorance). Deprive peoples & societies of water & energy and, in context of the modern world at least, you automatically force them into poverty.

Solving water & energy poverty may not cure all the worlds ills. Betcha it will make a huge, huge difference, though, & one that becomes more & more effective as time goes on.

Not in my lifetime, though (& I've probably got 60 years yet for "Natural Causes" to kick in)... :(

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 05:22 PM

One aspect of Canada's water situation is entirely negative: we have big corporations here who want to sell our water, in enormous amounts, directly to the US. I recently signed a petition against the commercialization of Canadian water, one of our natural resources. This particular corporation wanted to nearly drain a lake in Labrador and sell it south.

No, dammit. If we were providing water to a nation that needed it to sustain life, I'm pretty sure Canada would do it for nothing -- but the amount of water that goes merely to sustain golf courses in California is obscene.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:05 PM

Yeah, pdc, somewhere along those lines is where I fall. I live in Michigan, and we have faced job flight to the South and West for years. Now the population has grown to the point where they want to ship Great Lakes water,and Michigan acquifer water to the South. I am opposed absolutely, and I thank God for our wonderful neighbors to the North who (at least up until now) have resisted piping Great Lakes water. May they never change. Bad enough our jobs are taken, but now you want the water to support them???? I think not. If it is about supporting life, I am with you. If it is about supporting exorbitant lifestyles and jobs that are gone from here, then I am opposed.

Let the debate begin, I have a feeling this will be a humdinger.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 06:11 PM

The Economist magazine has often printed articles of the problems over water around the world and speculated on the potential future strife it could cause.

In the Far East such rivers as the Yellow (Huang He) already run dry towards the coast due to over extraction. The result is that farmers cannot irrigate their fields.

Many rivers here are also heavily polluted with industrial waste.

Domestic water is so cheap in China that often locals just leave taps and pipes running with no thought as to the waste. The Government wants to increase water charges to try and cut the wastage, but it is causing ructions.

In SE Asia the damming of the Mekong is causing problems in Laos, Cambodia and Vietnam.

I recall reading about water wars in the US between the cattle farmers as well as between the sheep farmers and cattle ranchers. This was back in the mid to late 1800's. So not a new problem.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:42 PM

depends on whowins the u.s. election this fall... if bush wins, sryria or iran are next and neither has anthing to do with water....

but when the u.s. runs outta water, look out canada...

bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:42 PM

We can find alternative methods of energy and doing work -- after all, the universe is made of nothing but energy, so it isn't as though there could be a shortage.

There's no substitute for water, though.


A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:49 PM

actually, amos, you are absolutely correct but man misuses water to such a degree that water is a managable problem since, unlike petroleum, is completely renewable...

bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: harpgirl
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 07:53 PM

I go to the CIA site for information on world trends. Here is a speech on water issues as well as other world trends:
http://www.odci.gov/cia/public_affairs/speeches/2000/gannon_speech_05022000.html

Searching the site is fascinating....

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:38 PM

I don't think Canada should share its water until the U.S. understands that they must cut down on unnecessary consumption. When I was in Arizona, there was a shopping mall that provided you with a little mist before entering the mall. Unbelievable! Then, of course, there are all those golf courses. Anyway, I have the feeling that if Canada drained our lakes and gave the water to the U.S. for free, they would probably bottle it and sell it back to us at a huge profit. Thats the U.S. equivalent of free trade.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 08:47 PM

dianavan, you are not being fair. The misters that you are so jaundiced about are there to keep folks from dropping over in the desert heat. They provide a cooling effect in a much more environmentally way than using fans, air conditioning, or a number of other methods. I am afraid that your biases against all things south of the USA/Canada border sometimes just sound shrill.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:08 PM

If you lived in Canada you might have a different perspective. I am both a U.S. and Canadian citizen and see a great deal of Canadian resources being given to the U.S. without any concern for the environmental destruction it creates here. I live here and want you to know that its time you started paying for your luxuries. I am not willing to drain lakes so that you can have misty malls and green golf courses. Drinking water - perhaps. You seem to think you're entitled to anything you want.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:12 PM

Well -- I am all for the Canadian point of view in general. But if we were to abstractall our man-made over-rides from the system, the water would still flow down to the oceans in the West, the East and, yes, the South. So it seems a bit artificial to proclaim that it is coming as a gift.

Just a thought.

Regards,

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 10:21 PM

And is it your contention that the way to keep your environment clean is to ship your trash to the States? There are other examples. But the main point that I believe should be made is that we must strengthen environmental compacts with Canada. Our two countries have much in common. You have use problems with vehicles as well, based on what I have seen on the 401 and 402 in and around Toronto. NYC, Chicago, Detroit .... they have nothing on T.O. My point is that we need to concentrate on what we have in common. I have heard comments here in the last few weeks from strident voices suggesting that the USA might try and forcibly take Canadian water. I find that preposterous. To be sure a global water policy must be established, and I agree wholeheartedly that all nations, and especially the US, must learn to conserve and protect the waters. But this constant bashing is very one sided and not accurate.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 29 Mar 04 - 11:58 PM

Big Mick said that the constant one-sided bashing isn't fair, and I agree. But there are reasons that the US takes so much bashing, as you will see below. The thing is, the US has the most luxurious lifestyle in the world, and Americans cannot expect to keep grabbing whatever they want from other countries to maintain luxury.

---


Americans constitute five percent of the world's population but consume 25 percent of the world's energy. On average, one American consumes as much energy as 2 Japanese, 6 Mexicans, 13 Chinese, 31 Indians, 128 Bangladeshis, 307 Tanzanians, or 370 Ethiopians.(7)

The United States is responsible for 22 percent of the world's industrial carbon dioxide emissions, a leading cause of global warming.(8)




1996 World Population Data Sheet, Population Reference Bureau.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:02 AM

Sorry! I should have added that Canada is nearly as bad in terms of luxury and waste, but our smaller population has less impact. Which is not to say that we shouldn't clean up our own act as well.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:04 AM

PDC:

Just to balance the picture, how about averaging the contribution to the economy in production of these mythical average citizens?


A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,pdc
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:50 AM

I'm sorry, Amos -- I don't understand your question. Can you rephrase it please?

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 12:53 AM

PDC:

You average their consumption without saying what they produce, which is patently unjust. How about some statistics on production?

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 01:50 AM

Big Mick - I apologize if it seems like I'm bashing the U.S. but as pdc pointed out, you are well known for your unbridled consumption. Until people understand their role in this mess, a change in leadership won't matter at all. What I see is a population of people who are more concerned about instant gratification than a reasonable approach to sharing resources.

Take a look at what "free trade" has done for Canada and what it has done for the U.S.A. As a resource-based economy, Canada has little choice but to cater to the demands of the U.S. but that is changing and what will happen when we say no more? I think people in the U.S. need to know that they are no longer on a pedestal and that other countries do have the right to say no - even if you are bigger.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 03:06 AM

What finally opened my eyes about America's over-consumption was when I lived in Greece, on a tiny island in the middle of the Aegean. We had whatever water was collected off our roofs and into the cisterns. There was also a spring up in the north of the island with water brought down in barrels by donkeys.

I had no washing machine, and we flushed our toilets with the used washing up water. We also had no shower until we rigged something up that could hold a few liters, and I learned how to get wet, turn off the water, lather and then turn the water back on for a quick rinse.

None of this was especially hard to do, (except washing sheets by hand) but when the summer came and we found our cistern was empty, I remember feeling real panic for the first time. Fortunately, we were able to keep going by buying the spring water and also filling the cistern with water brought in by boats from the mainland.

What this experience taught me was how isolated most Americans are from how much of the rest of the world operates daily. Therein lies the greatest tragedy of our country. Its difficult to empathise with those we know little about. Watching TV ain't the same as looking at the bottom of an empty water tank.

I'm not saying that only Americans are so isolated, please don't misunderstand me, but that my own life changed drastically once I left those shores and began to travel and live in other countries that had a lot less.

Yes, I do think that there is an ultimate responsibility for places that have more resourses not only to share them, but not to squander what they have, just because they can.

Since those days in Greece, I've also helped lay drip irrigation in Israel, an amazing technique now used world wide for smaller water consumption...and I can still only take showers that last about 4 minutes.

Most of us learn from experience, but in the case of the West, we can't count on that happening to enough of us in time. Laws have to change now, and more importantly, people have to understand that we are all on this same planet together, and will survive or self-destruct according to our actions..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 10:29 AM

dianavan, there is no reason to apologize. Let me tell you that I pointed this out for several specific reasons. The first is that I admire your stance and what appears to be a real committment to these causes. I was fearful that your very important messages would get lost, or detracted, from among Yanks by what was starting to appear to be strident anti US feelings. I know that is not the case now. Second, I think that when folks start focusing only on one area, even though some justification exists with regard to my country, they fail to see the failings all over the world. The old "board in your own eye" syndrome. The greed, and desire for more and more, was not originated in the States but we certainly have raised it to an art form. Were I a citizen of another country, I would be concentrating on learning from what I see happening in the States so that I could give folks what they want, but in a more environmentally responsible way. I don't think we can beat down peoples desire for a better life style by haranguing them, but when we show them concrete evidence of what is happening to their childrens world, they will usually respond, even here in the States.

Keep up the good fight .... please .... for all of us.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,Hugh Jampton
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 11:09 AM

Amos,
    I have read the published mantras and seen the televised statements issued by groups such as Al Queada and Taliban and others. Nowhere have I seen their gripe referring to water or energy. I have seen claims that we Westerners do what we do only for oil but I take much of that with a pinch of salt. No sir, what I read between the lines is nothing other than an eons held desire to see all the people of the world blindly or forcibly following one fundamentalist ,oppressive culture.
      As for Canada having 1/5 of the worlds fresh water, if that is correct, with todays technology there is not a lot Canada can do for people who elect to live on arid islands thousands of miles away and by depriving themselves of their ample natural resource is not going to help materially. The answer many would propose is that, in order to be blessed with the wherewithal to live comfortably then move to Canada but I can`t see that going down too well.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: mooman
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 11:21 AM

Unfortunately scarcity or control of water resources are already becoming cause for growing discontent in many third world countries.

I agree with Amos, energy will one day cease to be the problem it is now but fresh water is finite and the global population is constantly increasing...

Peace

moo

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 06:53 PM

Fortunately, however, there is no shortage of William Shatner as yet...

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 30 Mar 04 - 07:18 PM

Hugh:

I am accustomed to the notion that there is often a significant gap between what people say and the deeper levels that drive what they do and realy feel. If a community had a full supply of energy and water, the desire to mess with others would be significantly less because it woulld not include the prospect of bettering their situations. I think (and I may be wrong) that only the most extreme fanatics stand in definace of theor own needs, as described by Maslow long ago.

Contrariwise living in constant threat of economic distress or extinction is enough to make a soothsaying fanatic out of a social person.

That is just an opinion.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 01:28 AM

It's fanaticism to the dollar that is underrated.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 08:00 AM

I don't dispute the importance of water shortages as a source of conflict, but there are others.

I don't think that shortage of water or energy had that much to do with the setting of modern Israel in the first place, and the sunsequent events; though of course those kinds of issues have helped make the consequences for Palestinians worse than they otherwise might have been.

Similarly, I don't think it was shortage of oil that caused a bunch of Saudi Arabians to get involved in the events of September 11. (And if you've got enough energy to spare, there's no shortage of desalinated water.)

And the troubles in Ireland haven't by any means been just or primarily a matter of poverty related to lack of energy supplies.

And Timothy McVeigh and such like don't really fit into that picture either.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Mar 04 - 09:52 AM

And then there is this thread - BS: Banning water from festivals. This war is closer than you might think...

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 01:35 PM

This is part of the same picture of resource consumption as "Oil will run out."

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Mr Red
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 03:27 PM

the drilling under the Golan Heights? (That haven't quite been given back yet)

the annexing of 80% of water falling in Palestinian territories by Israel.

NEXT war? Predictions are a bit late mate.

Now just wait till the S E England demand more water to irrigate their conspicuous consumption.

FWIW Londan has purchased desalination plants to augment London excesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:02 PM

The western US has been fighting over the Colorado river water for years...
There is a basic formula....you build a bunch of stuff, then whine and plead saying, "you've gotta give us enough to support this city/facility we have here." Ask Arizona and Los Angeles how they got most of their supplies....

NO ONE should be allowed to build or farm any area beyond the available water (or energy) resources, and this means absolute limits on size for many communities. Think we have a chance of getting THAT past the construction industry lobbyists?

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Bill D
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:20 PM

(BTW, Ellen, the title needs a comma...*smile*)

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,sorefingers
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 05:47 PM

Water! sheesh here they are selling skim-milk for $3.00 a gallon and it goes like hot cakes. And I recall a time when you could not give skim away, nobody wanted it even for slopps. So in Texas today a cow is worth more than an oil well!

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Bobert
Date: 18 Aug 04 - 10:46 PM

Actually with Bush in office, who knows? He's shown that he'll send our troops to fight over non-WMD's so, what the heck, we might awken tomorrow mornin' and find he's started yet another war over....ahhhh.... whatever?

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Peace
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 06:30 PM

RE: BS: Water our next war?

Won't that help it grow?

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: skarpi
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 07:36 PM

Halló all, thay are fighting over oil this time , I say we don´t
need oil , we just make energy from water right . In Reykjavík
we are using two buses and they use (Hydrogen) I think this word is wrong written any way it´s made from water and if it wotk out well it will be in
our cars and fishing ship and so on , in about 5-10 years.
we are gonna have enough water for next thousands years or so .

We or they don´t have to fight for water.
All the best Skarpi Iceland.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:01 PM

Skarpi is right -- Iceland is probably the most advanced, sophisticated country in the world today with regards to technology and using it wisely. We should all be like Iceland.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: Shanghaiceltic
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:26 PM

In preparation for the next Olympics to be held in Beijing in 2008 they are currently diverting water courses outside the city so that Beijing will have enough water for it's guests.

As a result many small farming villages can now no longer support themselves and get no support from the government. All done with government approval.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 06:38 PM

It's not hard to be like Iceland, assuming that you have a virtually unlimited supply of geothermal energy available. And if energy were cheap enough, fresh water (from seawater) becomes readily available. It's all a matter of money.

Actually, it's a case of overpopulation--too many people fucking, or too many fucking people.

Subject: RE: BS: Water our next war?
From: saulgoldie
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 07:24 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 08:17 PM

why refresh it if you have nothing to say?

The reality is, water shortages is only one symptom of the real problem....too many people. There is a concept called "carrying capacity" , meaning how many people can an area support, given all the constraints. Once this is exceeded, natural laws will take over and correct the imbalance, and the laws don't care about who thinks they have 'rights'.

This happened in the cliff dwellings of the Anasazi indians a few hundred years ago, and it happened in the Sahara a few thousand years ago. We humans have the ability to control our population now, and plan for environmental problems....but somehow I doubt we will.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Bill D
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 09:56 PM

...and just by chance, there is a program running right now on public TV about the world-wide problems of over fishing. The average Swordfish catch has declined from 200-300 lb. fish to 90 lb. fish, and they are having to go much farther out to find any. Fishermen from Europe are now fishing off Africa because they can't make a living near Europe any longer.

...and so it goes....

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 10 Feb 05 - 10:47 PM

Given enrgy and water, there is almost nothing that cannot be handled. Growing self-sufficient crops and livestock requires land, which is already present, and water and energy to empower cultivation.

Once those hurdles are met everything else follows.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 02:33 AM

water and energy to empower cultivation, yes, but the land required to graze livestock is not environmentally sustainable.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Boab
Date: 11 Feb 05 - 03:39 AM

An over-generalisation, Dianavan. Perhaps you are looking at livestock-grazing thro' North American eyes. The British Isles is anarea of high-density population, yet the import of meat products from the Americas is minimal. Much of the beef industry depends upon cattle-raising on land which is by and large unsuitable for the intensive cultivation which is necessary for food growing. Likewise sheepfarming is predominantly an industry of hill country and moorland. The hill farms are "sustainable" in the environmental sense, although the economics of hill farming is something else---it's a hard life, and doesn't turn out too many millionaires! Many farms in the more fertile areas tend to be managed in a "rotation" system. This applies mostly to dairy producers, who will graze dairy herds on "fallow" land for some seasons, while "rotating" the remainder growing food crops and fodder. It is a very odd farm which isn't self-sufficient in water supply---although this is more and more affected by climate change. The "water-guzzlers" are almost 100% mass-producing industries [and that WOULD include monster hydroponic growers]. That being so, strife over water supply--given the acquisitive nature of much of our "free enterprise"---seems inevitable. Overpopulation has been referred to. Greed as an added ingredient will almost surely lead to strife. Sad; we DO learn, but do enough of us really care?

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: GUEST,saulgoldie
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:01 AM

Has anyone not noticed the insidiousness of the bottled water industry? They have got us shunning tap water and paying mucho $$ to drink it from a bottle. For one thing, at least in the US, or most of the US, anyway, what comes from the tap is as good as anything out of the bottles. And it also has fluoride to help fight tooth decay. (Yes, this is a GOOD thing.)

Furthermore, it doesn't need an expensive delivery system (train and truck), and it doesn't disgorge millions of pounds of plastic to fill the landfills. And another thing, does anyone not also know that those self-same bottles are made from, guess what? Petroleum! See other threads for discussions of THAT shortage.

What has this to do with water being the cause of war? Dunno. There's probably a connection that I haven't made due to insufficient blood/caffeine level. But rather than working on convincing millions of third-worlders that they need water from bottles, we should focus more energy on finding ways that they can have locally based water supplies that they don't need to keep buying from some multi-national. Kind of like the old baby formula issue.

BTW, do you know that it takes approx. 3,500 gallons of water to produce one pound of beef? Interesting "food" for thought. Mother nature wants us to eat more lower on the food chain and not populate the earth beyond its capacity to support us AND her other children.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:35 PM

Bill D noted the water problem in the US West back in 2004. I've also read that northern California has a pretty strong tendency to resent Southern California-- strong enough to talk secession. Top reason--exploitation of northern California's water resources by southern California.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: dianavan
Date: 25 May 06 - 08:58 PM

With global warming, the glaciers are melting and the water is nearly overflowing the dams in B.C.

Now we know why nobody wants to do anything about global warming.

They want the water!

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Amos
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:02 PM

Northen California should rest easy; when the glaciers come down, we will be glad to share our supply of sand with THEM.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: Ron Davies
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:15 PM

Touche, Amos. (where's that accent?)

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: pdq
Date: 25 May 06 - 10:47 PM

Cadillac Desert, the PBS mini-series documentary, should be mandatory viewing for all students and most adults in the US. I don't believe PBS will be airing it anymore as their website dedicated to the film is closed. The four episodes can be had for about $80.00 on DVD or VHS tape. To rich for my blood, but still believe it to be one of the best PBS efforts I have seen after This Old House, Crockett's Victory Garden and Antiques Road Show.
A definitive effort about water, power and politics.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 06 - 08:22 AM

Boab

"Perhaps you are looking at livestock-grazing thro' North American eyes"

And of course, we have made that mistake in Australia too. Except in the areas where you can only graze one beef cow to the acre - and there's bugger all water there anyway...

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: EBarnacle
Date: 26 May 06 - 12:18 PM

When you come down to root causes, almost all wars are caused by resource control issues---They got it, we want it. [And yes, that includes the crusades. Look it up in Richardson's "The Statistics of Deadly Quarrels.] Iraq, of course is the exception. We really wanted to help those poor, misgoverned people over there to get rid of an evil dictator.

There were and are many people equally misgoverned who live in countries with few, if any, significant resources. We don't go out of our way to rescue them from their plight.

As far as water goes, we have reached the point where it is possible to clean water, either by reverse osmosis or chemically at a very low cost. It takes a lot of energy, but solar power is now efficient enough to do the job.

Subject: RE: BS: Water -our next war?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 26 May 06 - 08:06 PM

"We really wanted to help those poor, misgoverned people over there to get rid of an evil dictator"

You mean it had NOTHING to do with 710?
(can't say it out loud in this democratically free country - don't want to get mistaken for a terrorist!)