BS: Victims?

Subject: BS: Victim! Who me?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:20 AM

I was listening to someone being interviewed on the radio this morning, and he said that we are now a 'victim' society. His reasoning is that when things go wrong we always look round for somebody to blame. Sueing local authorities when we trip, MacDonalds when we burn ourselves on our coffee, British American Tobacco when we get lung cancer, etc etc.
I must admit that I largely sympathise with this point of view as one of my favourite complaints is, 'Everybody seems to know their rights, but very few know their responsibilities'
Discuss
John

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:33 AM

IMO it's one of many pendulums swinging in our generation, something awkward and ill considered that is, nevertheless, a temporary and necessary counterbabalance to the way things had been before. The PC pendulum swings while we wrestle with racism, for instance, and all the "isms" have their own pendulum. One can only hope, as we look at the microcosmic slice of time that is ours to live in, that over the long haul we advance overall.

In other words, yes, I agree with you, but the approach to take (IMO) is to step back and look at the larger forces, and help people get smarter instead of blaiming them for the small piece of ridiculosity (compared to the total ridiculosity of humans in history till now and till we are extinct).... that this is a chance to help folks see a better way by positive efforts, not something we can affect by chiming in with, "Yeah, ain't it awful, people SUCK!"

Cuz, we are people too, and if we are honest with ourselves we suck, too, each in our own way. By looking only at the wrongs of others we manage to waste time we could be looking at ourselves. Then we run out of time, and who have we ourselves become in our small, personal slice of history?

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: Snuffy
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:33 AM

That is a disgraceful slur upon myself and many fellow-citizens. You have caused me untold distress and discomfort. My solicitor will be in touch with you shortly seeking redress of this heinous injury.

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: GUEST,KB
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:34 AM

Its human nature to look for someone to blame - what has changed is that that reaction is now being rewarded and so it is reinforced.
When I lost a finger there was an option to persue that route - but I chose not to go there, because I'd rather not dwell on, emphasise, or invent/discover negatives. An accident is an accident, and if you don't have a genuine reason for needing compensation then I think its better to just move on. (good thing it was my right hand though - else I'd have been an even worse guitarist)

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:34 AM

Or one can say, "I'm being victimized by all these 'VICTIMHOOD' proclaimers!" Ooops!

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:40 AM

i agree, too many bullshit layewrs trying to encourage people to make claims up, i was in hull city centre recently, some bloke stopped me, asked me if i could spare a couple of minutes for a survey, i said yes no problem, turned out it was not a survey at all, he asked have i ever been in an accident in the last 3 years, i said no, [which is true, i havent], he kept saying , "are you sure, you must have been etc, did you trip, or fall or hurt yourself at work?
no i didn't, get lost, and stick your "survey"!

if people trip up, they should bloody luck were they are going then, instead of suing the council, putting the tax up, never all this bullshit a few years ago, its getting like america.

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: freda underhill
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:51 AM

On a personal level, I have a philosophy of responsibility eg..

by taking responsibility, choosing my responses & solutions to problems.

However, on a social level, I understand that people need more than someone telling them to take responsibility. I don't agree with a government department deciding that the way to solve problems is to let people take their own responsibility for their own lives. This is an abrogation of govt responsibility. Governments have to fund services and programs to help give people the skills and resources they need to become responsible. In this sense, the population is the "self" and the government is the mind taking responsibility for Its Self.


freda

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: C-flat
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:52 AM

I read recently that Liverpool local authority are spending more money satisfying claims from people who have tripped over paving stones than their entire budget for replacing and maintaining pedestrian walkways.

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:53 AM

People should take responsibility for the effects of their actions, but that goes both ways. For example a local authority that lets the pavements get all uneven so that people trip up, or companies that sell lethal recreational drugs, or supply superheated coffee in collapsible cups.

Is it suggested that they should walk away unchallenged and unpunished, free to keep on ignoring their responsibility for the effects of their actions or inaction?

If the only way things like that get punished and the abuses stopped is because people who have been damaged sue, that's one way. Not necessarily the best way. More often than, when you get down to cases, you'll find that the people being sued have been offered the opportunity to apologise, but have prefered to go to court.

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: Big Mick
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 09:58 AM

I agree that there seem to be a number of examples of spurious lawsuits, but don't fall for the old demagogue tactic of using the most ridiculous stories to sway opinions. That is what those that wish to loosen the liability laws to a point of ridiculousness want. The simple fact is that capitalistic interests don't think they should be held responsible for their products. They have successfully changed the perception of trial lawyers in the US to shady characters. But the truth of the matter is that if it weren't for the trial lawyers taking them on (for a contingency fee, to be sure) these same interests would have destroyed many a life without consequence of any sort. The business interests have also turned the idea of a contingency fee into a perjorative, when the facts are that many times the attorney has all the risk as they don't collect unless they are successful AND can last long enough to make it through appeals. Most corporations, even though found to be liable, just outlast the plaintiff's in the appeals process.

I agree that there is a need to reform, but I believe that most of it should come on the side of the plaintiff.

Folks need to quit fallin' for the old "PR/change perceptual reality" game. When the fox steps into the hen house to keep things safe there, some hens need to think that through a bit.

Mick

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:04 PM

It's true about the stories - only the ridiculous ones will get into the news.

It's true there are people stupid enough to put a hot cup of coffee between their legs and then squeeze, but who out there hasn't done a stupid thing like standing on a rotating chair, used power tools without safety gear or checked to see if the electricity was on with a badly placed digit?

LTS(and yes, I've done all those things and more, and I'm a H&S Risk Assessor!!!)

Subject: RE: BS: Victims?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Apr 04 - 08:48 PM

And courts generally, as they should, taken into account the contribution people may have made to what happened to them. If you walk into an office door, maybe you should have been looking more carefully - but the person whose door it is has a duty to make sure that it is readily visible. Damage awards are supposed to recognise that kind of thing.