BS: I Love Big Brother!

Subject: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:14 AM

According to CNN a 15 year old boy in Prosser, Washington was questioned for hours by the Secret Service and punished by the school board for drawing anti-Bush propaganda for a school assignment.

the link is: click here

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:58 AM

...it was not a freedom of speech issue, but a concern over the depiction of violence.

So the right to depict violence in art is not a freedom of speech issue?

I can see the school administration getting alarmed if the violence depicted was aimed at another student or a teacher. That could definitely be interpreted as a threat. But George W. Bush's head on a pike is not a threat. It's 100% symbolism and anyone that doesn't realize that has his own head up his ass.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 02:31 AM

Well, I guess I'd like to see the picture before I made a judgment on the situation. I dealt with the Secret Service occasionally in my 25 years as a federal investigator. I always found them to be reasonable and calm. If the school district called them, they were required to go and check the thing out. Maybe the school district overreacted, and maybe not.
I had to check out threats on occasion, too. Most were nothing to be concerned about, and usually very tedious to deal with - but you can't make that decision until you take a look.
I've been a liberal all my life, but I think I have to say that nowadays, terrorism is a real threat the whole world over. I suppose many of us will encounter situations where law enforcement officers stop by to check things out. In the vast majority of cases, they're just doing their job, checking things out to see if there's a problem or not. Most often, they find the work rather boring. We only need to be concerned when they abuse their authority.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 03:36 AM

Sounds like there's some abuse of authority here to me.

'"If this 15-year-old kid in Prosser is perceived as a threat to the president, then we are living in '1984'," Cravens said.'

I'm with Cravens, and with Bee-dubya-ell.

The kid submitted it for an assignment for godsake.

"Anti-Bush" does not mean "Pro-Terrorism." Neither does "Anti-War." Nor "Bad Taste."

clint

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 04:12 AM

Sense of humour failure alarm, kindly wipe that smile off your face!
John

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:36 AM

seems to me this is somewhat similar to the time honoured tradition of trying to read the entrails of sheep in order to predict the future.

Violence depicted in adolescent political cartooning perceived as a security threat? What a bunch ignorant, provincial, paranoid boffos.

Fortunately, when my daughter was in school, she was fairly adept at figuring out which teachers knew the difference between education and indoctrination and which ones didn't, prior to presenting her work. Unfortunately some kids learn the hard way. That the drawings would be brought to the attention of national security is beyond the pale.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 11:53 AM

Of course, what a comforting thought! if you have teachers turning over students to the secret police, the safety of the homeland is assured . Vee haf rules hier! Sig heil!

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 11:57 AM

Do ya think the school's administration would have expressed much "concern over the depiction of violence" if it had been Osama or Saddam's head on the pike?

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 12:04 PM

He'd have probably got a citizenship award.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Strick
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 12:13 PM

"Violence depicted in adolescent political cartooning perceived as a security threat? What a bunch ignorant, provincial, paranoid boffos."

Welcome to a post-Columbine world. Have you forgotten all the stories about kids suspended or worse for writing stories or drawing pictures that their teachers considered violent? The child who was suspended for having pointed rather than blunt sissors in her backpack? School systems went to full CYA mode years ago. There's zero tolerance for anything violent. Edgar Allen Poe would never graduate from school in this post-modern world.

From what I heard the Secret Service was notified there was an issue by the school and after interviewing the kid took no action. They would have been irresponsible not to respond.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 12:21 PM

Hell! censoreship in schools of violence as depicted in student art was around a lot longer than Columbine and so has the idea of trying to determine the personality by subject matter. The unfortunate thing is that it may work sometimes in hindsight, but rarely for the reverse.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Amos
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 12:26 PM

Suppose he had depicted US Marines, blowing up Falujian insurgents in pieces, arms and legs flying, blood all over the place, with a legend saying "Copme home soon, Daddy!". Which button would have been pushed harder? Maybe both knees would have jerked at once!

Jaysus wept...


A

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:31 PM

The "secret police" may not have taken any direct action, but if one believes his name is not on a "list" now, as a person of interest, IMO, one is very naive.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Megan L
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 01:55 PM

The only big brother I love apart from my own is Cameron.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Peace
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:37 PM

The school authorities were behaving appropriately. Yes,it was CYA and likely uncalled for, but any threat against the Chief Executive HAS to be checked out. Other young people have acted on their fantasies. That's the way it is these days, unfortunately. Even paranoids have enemies.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:20 PM

Actually, we may have boxed ourselves into a corner on the issue of school violence. Once upon a time, a teacher or administrator could ask informal questions to find out if there's a problem or not. Nowadays, it seems that every problem or question must be handled as a fully-documented, quasi-judicial procedure. There's no such thing as common sense any more. No such thing as trust any more, either.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 05:15 PM

I realize that there are many in our society that do not like or have become fearful of our children, but explain to me how a political cartoon is in any way a threat to the "chief executive". When I was young I played with kids that regularly blew their toy soldiers to bits with firecrackers. I can say with some certainty that none of them went on to become terrorists.......as Amos said, Jaysus wept.   

Creative spark, especially if it is contrary to mainstream thought and particularly in the arts, exists in spite of schools, rarely because of them.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 11:02 PM

Hmmm - years ago, my daughter was expelled from school for drawing a picture of her teacher, cutting it out and taping it to the crucifix.

I also remember that when I was in high school, a Cuban immigrant (same age) was suspended for refusing to say the pledge of allegiance in her homeroom.

Last year a seven year old in my class, drew a cartoon that I will keep for ever. It was a picture of a child who had fallen asleep in his desk. He was sleeping soundly and drooling. The drool had made a pool on the desk and all the other children were pointing and laughing at him. Priceless! At the parent teacher conference, I showed it to his parents and told them he had a great future as a political cartoonist.   

I would have said the same thing to this boy's parents. If the drawing had depicted classmates, teachers, friends or family member, I would have been alarmed. Political cartoons are acceptable at the high school level. Critical expression should be encouraged.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: LadyJean
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:25 AM

What are the odds that a fifteen year old boy in a small town in Washington State would be able to decapitate the president, assuming he wanted to.
I've been writing detective stories for the past year, and bumping off my obnoxious neighbors. It's a great release, even better than doing it for real, since I can make them things like sexual degenerates, Nazi spies. Oh! and I made one nosy old biddy a madam.
I have no intention of really harming my obnoxious neighbors. I don't need to.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 07:33 PM

In other related news, you may recall (I think I have it right) that Winston Smith's occupation in his world was re-writing history for the Gummint.

Big Brother looms:

Rewriting history under the dome
By Evan Lehmann, Sun Washington Bureau

WASHINGTON -- The staff of U.S. Rep Marty Meehan
wiped out references to his broken term-limits
pledge as well as information about his huge
campaign war chest in an independent biography
of the Lowell Democrat on a Web site that bills
itself as the "world's largest encyclopedia,"
The Sun has learned.

The Meehan alterations on Wikipedia.com represent
just two of more than 1,000 changes made by
congressional staffers at the U.S. House of
Representatives in the past six month. Wikipedia
is a global reference that relies on its Internet
users to add credible information to entries on
millions of topics.

[...]

In November and December, The Sun has learned,
users of the House's IP address were temporarily
blocked from changing content because of violations
described by the site as a "deliberate attempt to
compromise the integrity of the encyclopedia."

More... http://www.lowellsun.com/ci_3444567

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Amos
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 07:41 PM

Since that article was written, the article ha been changed back the way it was and an addition about the staff-change added to the entry on "Internet Vandalism". Seems Wikipedes are faster than bureaucrats...


A

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Big Phil
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:11 PM

George Galloway should have won.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Peace
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:12 PM

"I Love Big Brother!"

Good. Did you like the Holding Company, too.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:14 PM

I'm not worried about Big brother. He's always been there. He always will.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: mack/misophist
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:17 PM

Thanks for the link, Amos. I'm surprised it isn't in every newspaper.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Jan 06 - 09:25 PM

It's because it's not at all newsworth, that's why.

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Amos
Date: 30 Jan 06 - 11:33 AM

Your negligent superiority is another sorry symptom of the times, MG. Or your own thickness of skull, peut-etre.


A

Subject: RE: BS: I Love Big Brother!
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 30 Jan 06 - 06:41 PM

I always loved Big Brother. Sam Houston Andrew was a way-underrated guitar player in my opinion.