BS: Was the internet ever predicted

Subject: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:35 PM

Are there any texts from antiquity, that predicted the age of computers/internet?

My own personal example is in Lukes gospel when Jesus said that the very hairs on your head are numbered. This astutely says that we leave footprints in everything we say and do. Just like going on line.

Over to anyone else.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST,harlowpoet
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:44 PM

Sorry that was me. Had a tussle with the cookie monster, which I lost

Simon

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:47 PM

Predicted? Cyberpunk and Science Fiction authors have been 'predicting' it for decades!

It was a blast reading William Gibsons "Neuromancer" in 1984, and being as 'online' as someone could be in those days (into the mid and late 80's)

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: TheBigPinkLad
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 05:57 PM

Jesus. Why didn't he just say "In the 1980s you'll get a thing called the Internet."

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST,harlowpoet
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:07 PM

I don't think Jesus did dates, which isn't knocking him.

With regard to science fiction I remember a few of us having a pub conversation, when we talked about Star Trek. That show completely failed to predict the internet. I'm talking about the original series with Kirk and Spock

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: mack/misophist
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:10 PM

I don't think so.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:14 PM

There have been a few clever attempts to predict the future, based on sophisticated guesses....but no one can KNOW details of the future. I have made few predictions of my own... that I hope are wrong.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Joe_F
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:34 PM

In E. M. Forster's sf story "The Machine Stops" (1909), something is described that is very like the Internet. People sit in their rooms & give TV lectures to worldwide audiences. As described, they seem to be real-time, but one gathers that they are archived, because lectures that refer to other lectures are praised. It is not shown how one signs up to give a lecture, but it seems anyone can do it. When one is not giving lectures there is a great and sometime irritating press of telephone calls, but it is all viva voce.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 06:35 PM

"Star Trek. That show completely failed to predict the internet"

Not quite... they were constantly accessing the Star Fleet DataBase over sub-space... They just didn't talk about it directly much...

Or the store-house of knowledge at Memory Alpha (Once Lt. Mira Romaine rebuilds it after "The Lights Of Zetar") Same thing there... A repository of knowledge to be accessed at a distance...

Or at the very least, inner-ship communication is more or less a networking of work-stations... All tied through the central computer...

Sorry.. my geek is showing...

:-)

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 07:09 PM

Issac Asimov describes the internet in the mid 20th century in several of his books including the foundation series. He calls it "multi vac" a computer linked globally and inter-galactically,holding all the knowledge of the human species accessable by all.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST,harlowpoet
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 07:20 PM

Nothing wrong with being a geek. I like to tune into my own inner geek sometimes.

But seriously, Star Trek lost the plot when it came to the internet. A British Sci-fi series called Blakes 7, had a computer called ORAC, which was small, cosy, and a great information tool, but still a bit primitive when you can hit the web from a mobile, these days.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 07:26 PM

There was a Soviet project in 1960, where they brought together many scientists to predict the future (a translation was published by Penguin in the mid 1960s). In it, they predict the Internet with startling accuracy (you would be able to pull up information from all the libraries in the world right from your desk, etc).

They also predicted the 100th anniversary celebrations of the USSR, so they weren't completely accurate.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 07:58 PM

Predicting the technology is one thing. But predicting how that's going to change the way we live, that's something else. That's what the most interesting science fiction does. But I'm not sure that anybody really got their heads round that in thencase of the Internet - I mean, predicting things like the Mudcat, or file sharing.

In the same way when people thought about stuff like mobile phones, they thought in terms of phone conversations, not of the way people use them to be effectively in two places at once.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 08:34 PM

read a sci fi novel in the 70s where the hero traveled to some
distant planet in search of some incredibly talented artist and found the artist on a world that had some giant supercomputer with a mindlink to everyone on the planet. If there was anything you needed to know, or learn such as the talents of painting, playing music etc you could instantly do so.
Everyone on the planet was really bored actually.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 08:56 PM

That's what I mean about imagining the technology just being the first step. Predicting how we use it and how it changes how we deal with each other, that's the real trick.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Blackcatter
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 09:03 PM

I think that one reason why the Internet has so little SF "predictions" is because so much of it is mundane and frankly ho-hum. I primarily use the Internet to get basic information - on a daily basis I get notes from friends (emails) check the weather, buy things etc. Most SF books have beter things to do than describe that stuff. If I want to immediately communicate something vitally important to someone (which is a much more common type of communication) - I'm still going to call them.

We think of all the WOW inventions that SF has predicted - but what about cell-phones, air-bags, Walmart super centers, breast implants, digital cameras, etc.

Many SF writers (including Heinlein) have stories going back to the 50s and 60s where the house has a communications port that clearly not only handles stuff around the house, but communicates with the outside through (presumedly) other computers. A lot of time, characters seem to communicate using live video with other people but hey - you can do that on the internet too - it's called porn.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 10:06 PM

just remembered Dick Tracy comic strip......"Another thing Tracy has always been famous for is up-to-date technology. In 1964, he traded in his two-way wrist radio, which had been given to him in 1946 by inventor Diet Smith, for a two-way wrist TV; and in '86 he exchanged the TV for a two-way wrist computer."

not 'exactly' the internet, but much of the same technology....predicted in the 1940s to 1960s.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 10:41 PM

Tesla had the concept of the internet in the 30's but no hardware or software to start the process. AC current is still integral to mowt of our PC's.

Jules Verne also described a fax like device using telephone technology.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Apr 04 - 11:24 PM

PREDICT........What is that? Sounds like some the condition of a virgin prior to intercourse.........................

Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: steve in ottawa
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 04:00 AM

Robert Sawyer? noted that SF had failed to foresee the difficulty in setting up telecommunications networks.

Typically, if it's in old SF, it's near magical treatment allows it to take up even less space than your phone; Dick Tracy's watch is a good example. While furturistic infrastructure elements like water, electricity, roads, mass transit, and garbage removal are occasionally examined, communications infrastructure is not. Even now, hardly any of us have for example, a fibre optic data line coming into our houses -- too expensive.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 07:12 AM

John D. MacDonald in a Travis McGee novel back in `82. I'm not a huge fan of detective/mystery fiction, but the best thing about the Travis McGee series, IMO, was the social commentary and observations delved into on the side.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: mack/misophist
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 08:58 AM

It might be a good idea to first define what the internet is. Tim Berners-Lee of CERN is given credit for inventing the web when he realized that html made web pages possible, eliminating the need for a more or less ftp based web. The first true multi-user time sharing system was Multics, which was started all the way back in 1965. The internet more or less runs on UNIX, which wasn't written until the Multics project was up and running.

In other words, unless the fictional model looks a lot like a LAN and includes relatively static web pages and allows general browsing and comes from before 1965, I don't think it qualifies.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 12:52 PM

when I studied computing science in the early 80s, I used the University network to email people in other universities and browsed discussion groups etc. It wasnt quite like the hypertext based setup with the web but I was impressed at the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: fat B****rd
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:13 PM

Allegedly, Pete Towshend's "Lifehouse" was pretty much ahead of it's time in this regard.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:24 PM

"It might be a good idea to first define what the internet is. "

Well, Willaim Gibson coined the term "Cyberspace", and his definition is still the best....

"It's where the bank keeps your money"

"html made web pages possible"

Web pages alone are a pretty myopic look at the internet... (Read 'cyberspace'...)

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 01:41 PM

I believe it was in Oath of Fealty by Pournelle and Niven that some of the characters had brain implant interfaces that allowed them to access the main computer for information by just thinking the right codes, then thinking google-type combinations of words. Two people with implants could sit at a conference table with a whole bunch of other people and carry on a conversation without the others knowing.

Handy. Computer Aided Telepathy.

That would be pretty neat at a song-fest or a gig. Access DT for a song you want to sing, and you'll never blank out on the words.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 02:06 PM

The most bemusing aspect imo is the recognition of how very new this whole thing is. Someone above referred to the internet of the early 80s - how very recent that is!- and we all know that an individual personal computer is considered ancient long before its 5th birthday- just where are we going with this? What will be the next refinement?

In 10 years- in 5 years- what will we doing in the comfort of our own homes?

I once read a scifi story where the normal thing was to stay home and communicate with everyone, including friends, via wall-tv. Prior to living together, two lovers had only had virtual meetings. (And of course, the term 'virtual reality' had not yet been coined.)

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 02:41 PM

I heard it as "it's where you are when you're talking on the phone".



Anyway there is a really interesting and slippery slope going on as we transition more and more into "infomrational"transactions and less and less into organic transactions such as face-to-face smiles, handshakes, real hugs and real kisses.

The telephone started it, of course, but at least there was a direct analog link with sound waves very like ht eones ocming out of the sender's mouth.

My concern is that there is a huge rebalancing going on in which we are downgrading the gems of our pre-cyber civilization -- the art of letters, certain ways of doing research, ways of thinking about groups and nations, the rat eof putting out information, and the physical efforts once associated with operating a typewriter or fountain pen. All these and more are earmarks of a high plateau of literary and intellectual civilization in my lifetime, now seemingly swamped by blitzes of formats and speedy transfers and huge volumes of high-speed shallow analyses with little deeper impact.

I am also sure that the time will come when this whole lament of mine sounds as old-fashioned as Socrates resenting the introduction of writing because it degraded the use of memory. Hopelessly outdated sentimentalism. For the moment, it seems with the huge flood of blogs and mail and pages and images being slathered all over creation by any fool with a keyboard (present comapny included) we are paying a huge price in sacrificing the discipline and quality of the well-built phrase, the intense paragraph, the page that stirs. We have unleashed waves, and drowned wit in a mediocre tide.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 02:54 PM

"The most bemusing aspect imo is the recognition of how very new this whole thing is"

Depends what circle you move in I guess...

Cause from what I've seen, most of the people like me who were 'there' really before there was any (or much) "There" there tend to think of the internet as a HUGE let-down... We've seen in fiction what it COULD be, but the reality, it's a huge funnel, dumping reams and reams of commercial porn and self-important ranting into your home...

Even the so called 'havens' in cyberspace aren't HALF what they could be...

"huge volumes of high-speed shallow analyses"

Here, frigg'n here...

"downgrading the gems of our pre-cyber civilization"
I think it's more like we just don't 'get' how we 'could' be uaing the gem that is cyberspace... The porn industry kinda gets it...

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 02:57 PM

that should read

'could be uSing the gem that is... "

Why can't we edit our own posts like on any decent message board???

Really it's like Mudcat was put up in the 50's and hasn't changed since then....

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Amos
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:04 PM

Think of the bandwidth we save, mate! :>)

Right -- the cyberspace connectivity is not the source of the problem. The problem is the UART<==>CPU bus in each of us. By which I mean that we are geared in our thinking to an organic pace, our vocabularies have built up over centuries to reflect our comfortable seats deep inside meatspace, our training is in sizing things up through our skulls, and all of these ancient traidtions are getting rocked by a world view in which you can look out a window ten thousand miles away to the West while listening to live mnusic being broadcast from some dive in the bowels of Jersey. It is mindboggling, but only because we haven't re-framed our minds very well just yet. The best qualities of human communication -- insight, the touching of minds, the sense of affinity, the live pulse of real thought going on between two viewpoints -- all that gets lost because of the torque caused by this amazing ramp up in speed and space.

Let us hope we can make the transition before our virtues are all drowned by high-quantity barbarianisms.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:35 PM

"we are geared in our thinking to an organic pace"

Thats why some say that 'hackers' might be the next evolutionary step...

"I couldn't think as slow as you if I tried"

- Mr. Rat "The Core" -

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Cluin
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:36 PM

"I think it's more like we just don't 'get' how we 'could' be uaing the gem that is cyberspace... The porn industry kinda gets it..."


What else is new? It was mainly the porn industry that really pushed home VCR technology into common usage and cheapness/availability. Same thing has been happening with the internet.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Clinton Hammond
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 03:53 PM

"It was mainly the porn industry that really pushed home VCR technology into common usage"

And every other entertainment medium of the last century!

:-)

Home movie cameras... moving pictures in general... VCRs... Digital recorders...

The porn industry is ALWAYS on the cutting edge of entertainment tech...

Know why DVD won the battle vs VCDs??? Cause the makers of VCDs said they wouldn't put porn on them...

Or you would have been able to watch movies on your PCs without a DVD drive...

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Blackcatter
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 05:26 PM

I watch movies on my PC without a DVD drive. I just use the Internet.


Getting back to the original question - like I stated before - the Internet isn't exciting enough to have been put into a lot of stories. SF writers didn't spend a lot of time describing radical advances in technology in the kitchen either. Did anyone predict the microwave? The bread maker? The George Forman Grill?

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 05:38 PM

"Exciting" Science Fiction with big action is all very well; but the stuff that's geared to the interaction between changes in technology and changes in society is what it's really about, for me.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 09:44 PM

A classic example of the kind of thing I mean is where phone helpline work has been exported to places on the other side of the world - but the people answering the phone have to pretend they are local, with appropriate accents, and gossip about sport or weather and so forth, to make it more convincing - because people don't feel that advice about local trains, from someone in another continent, is going to be reliable.

That's just the kind of thing that a good science-fiction writer, anticipating the kind of technology that allows that sort of thing might have made a point of using as a plot device, and as a way of reminding readers that the world in the story had changed. (For example you'd have the phone conversation that left you assumning the hero was in England, and then something would be dropped in to that reveal he was in fact in Bangalore.

Subject: Hardiman the Fiddler nibbling Susan's cookie
From: wysiwyg
Date: 29 Apr 04 - 10:02 PM

Well, what was predicted was that the internet would crash, so this presupposes its existence.

"Fallen, fallen is Babylon the great."

~Hardiman the Fiddler nibbling Susan's cookie

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 05:04 AM

I reckon Nostradamus predicted it in the quatrain

Twin demons shall swim in rivers of space:
And their names shall be known as Hipa and Ciba,
The great gates shall hold the world in their sway,
until Linus shall rally the people against them...

;-)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: Grab
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:08 PM

Donuel: "AC current is still integral to most of our PC's" is relevant to the internet how? The AC current is just powering it, not doing internal processing. It's like saying that the existence of legs predicted the bicycle... ;-) Re Jules Verne's gadget, they already had the telegraph then, so a "telegraph for pictures" ain't such a stretch.

To the original guest who posted: No there aren't any such texts. Your quote from Luke has no relevance. And you're a nutter - I just hope the voices in your head never tell you to shoot some people.

Various sci-fi writers have predicted things like it, with varying degrees of correspondance to what's appeared and when. I doubt you'd call even the oldest of them (Wells and Orwell) "texts from antiquity" though.

Graham.

Subject: RE: BS: Was the internet ever predicted
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 30 Apr 04 - 01:26 PM

Got out of bed the wrong side Grab, I see, throwing out a totally gratuitous insult like that.

....................

Omar Khayyam anticipating the Internet, and the way computers like to hold on to stuff even when it's deleted:

The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,
Moves on: nor all your Piety nor Wit
Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,
Nor all your Tears wash out a Word of it