Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 25 May 04 - 05:28 PM

reggie, your response to John was more argumentative than understanding. When you spread an event out as you suggest it usually goes downhill fast, and people will fight over who gets stuck in that remote venue because they don't get their share of the traffic. It's the critical mass of the thing all in one place that lets it work.

I haven't been to Folklife, but I've heard about it all of my life. As events become larger and more popular there are growing pains, and I think John Ross described them pretty well. It's a music event but evidently there are two classes of performers: a lot of regular performances by musicians signed up to perform there and busking musicians playing catch-as-catch-can. All muscians being equal (yeah, well, the phrase works for this instance) it sounds like some of them are causing more congestion and not pulling their own weight at what is a music event. MAG has a good suggestion--have a designated busking area and stick with it. Might even be worthwhile to charge a token fee to those buskers, also.

SRS

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 25 May 04 - 05:25 PM

Talk about crowded walkways, how about the crowded soundwaves. I think that those with the greatest volumes emanating from their folk instruments should be moved to less densely populated areas. That would ease the overall din and produce a more quiet listening environment, allowing many more entertainers, of the lesser volume variety, to be able to be heard in the limited space available. I think a director or an orchestrator of volume levels should be chosen. As it is now the cacophony is getting hard to handle. The drum circles that form around the fountain area can and do easily dominate too much of the available listening space, even competing and over powering with the small sound stages nearby.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 25 May 04 - 05:07 PM

Let's face it every avenue of travel there gets congested. The grounds, much like our highways, are simply not big enough to accommodate the traffic. It would be wise to branch out further into the community with some of the events. Spreading the events to other locations within the city would ease some of this crowding. There are other locations within the city that could easily serve as an additional space to host events related to the festival. The University District, the International District, Pioneer Square, Capital Hill, the nearest, the Fremont District, all have hosted similar events featuring entertainment, music, crafts and food. Surely something could be worked out cooperatively with those fair associations to help in this regard. A kind of city fair summit perhaps, where all of the organizers could hold a conference and talk to each other about how best to help each other and work together for the mutual benefit of all. Or is my inexperience with the organizational underbelly of these events just too uninformed about the complexities of such an undertaking? I know that they were trying to move some things to the Lake Union area.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: MAG
Date: 25 May 04 - 02:34 PM

And the huge number of buskers who insist on the most heavily trafficked routes contribute hugely to the congestion problem. I say, let's rope off a big chunk of the grass, reserved for buskers. Those without buttons of any sort could go there contribute to the busker of their choice, and folks who are trying to get somewhere maybe could.

"Buskers do offer something, their entertainment. I get the feeling by your post, even though you say (and believe me, it's appreciated) that you don't actually regard any of the performances by the entertainers and musicians there as having any real value. Perhaps this is because they've all offered these services for free, and the popular perception seems to be that anything offered for free has no inherent value.

A very good friend once told me, when you ask nothing for your services folks will treat you like you're worth nothing, and that what you charge for your services will determine how you are treated. I've seen this happen over and over again at many different monetary levels."

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 25 May 04 - 01:21 PM

Every one of the food, beer, crafts, book, record, t-shirt and other vendors is paying either a flat fee, a percentage of sales, or both for the privilege of selling at the festival.

Yes, to do business for four days straight with their own tent and location and power etc. they are paying fees. I see nothing wrong with that. These folks obviously feel the event is a worthwhile endeavor.

In exchange for those fees and commissions, the festival attracts more than 250,000 people who spend more than a million and a half dollars over the four-day weekend.

I guess that may make the event a good incentive for any business to to think about investing in. Do the festival vendors attract the 250,000 people or do the performances? If it's all about vendors then why bother with the music at all. Let's call the festival Vendorama or Vendorpalooza. Let's see, if I wanted to buy a CD or a t-shirt etc. I could go a retail outlet. If I wanted food, I could easily find a store or restaurant. I think the music is why most folks show up.

But somehow, a few people who want to sell their own CDs don't think they have any obligation to pay their fair share of the costs of producing the event.

Yes, it is what is fair that I'm interested in seeing happen at the event. What performers have to offer does have value. The festival gets it for free. Isn't that a fair exchange? Perhaps someone should sit down with every performer and figure out what kind of fee each and every one would normally charge for their services. That fee is what all the performers are already donating. Has anyone tried to do that? Isn't the donation of their time and talent fair enough?

....it's all free.....nobody is turned away because they don't contribute.

Ah but someone was turned away last year, and not just someone, a folk performer, and he was contributing something his skill and talent as a performer.

If Folklife didn't charge the vendors a commission and spend that money to make the festival happen every year, there wouldn't be anybody there to buy your CDs.

So, your saying that the event does not draw enough donations from all of it's other resources, the City of Seattle, other levels of government, sponsorships, private donations, and the fund raising concert, and that without the commissions from vendors, particularly those few performer's who wish to sell their own CDs, the festival could not make enough money to function and that there wouldn't be anybody there to buy CDs. Funny, but I seem to remember plenty of folks showing up at the festival before this commision on CD sales took place. How about this, let's suspend the commisions on performers CD sales next year and see how many folks don't show up and then go from there.

But when the city can't keep the libraries open due to short funding, I have to say that I don't mind paying my share of taxes.

I believe that I just saw a news cast about a brand new library opening in downtown Seattle. The new Central Library just opened yesturday. I guess your taxes are going to good use.

As far as I'm concerned, any musician (and everybody else) who's making money at the festival has a moral obligation to put something back into the cost of the event's production. And that includes buskers

Buskers do offer something, their entertainment. I get the feeling by your post, even though you say (and believe me, it's appreciated) that you don't actually regard any of the performances by the entertainers and musicians there as having any real value. Perhaps this is because they've all offered these services for free, and the popular perception seems to be that anything offered for free has no inherent value.

A very good friend once told me, when you ask nothing for your services folks will treat you like you're worth nothing, and that what you charge for your services will determine how you are treated. I've seen this happen over and over again at many different monetary levels.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: open mike
Date: 24 May 04 - 10:22 PM

i did not realize this event was FREE to attend...
that is a wonderful thing! good luck and enjoy.
i will be thinking fo you while at the strawberry
festival on the same weekend.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Haruo
Date: 24 May 04 - 10:03 PM

I certainly intend to be at the Phil Thomas Tribute Concert (with my ears sharply tuned to catch any Chinook Jargon that flies past). Paula will probably be out of town (doing emergency repairs to Boy Scout camps).

Haruo

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: johnross
Date: 23 May 04 - 05:12 PM

First, please note that nothing in this post represents any kind of "official" statement from Northwest Folklife. These are my personal responses to earlier posts in this thread.

It takes a lot of effort and a LOT of money to make the Folklife Festival happen. Some of that money comes from the City of Seattle and other levels of government, but it also comes from sponsorships, private donations, and commissions from sales during the festival. Every one of the food, beer, crafts, book, record, t-shirt and other vendors is paying either a flat fee, a percentage of sales, or both for the privilege of selling at the festival. In exchange for those fees and commissions, the festival attracts more than 250,000 people who spend more than a million and a half dollars over the four-day weekend.

At the same time, one of Northwest Folklife's strongest commitments is that the festival will not charge admission. Except for one special fundraising concert, it's all free. Visitors are encouraged to donate money, and to buy souvenir buttons and posters, but nobody is turned away because they don't contribute.

But somehow, a few people who want to sell their own CDs don't think they have any obigation to pay their fair share of the costs of producing the event. If Folklife didn't charge the vendors a commission and spend that money to make the festival happen every year, there wouldn't be anybody there to buy your CDs.

Sure, you're contributing your performance and your time (and believe me, it's appreciated), but so are several thousand other performers and volunteers who don't try to make money off the festival without letting some of it filter back into the costs of producing the thing. Why should you expect to be treated differently?

As for the tax and business license requirements, those may not be Folklife's fault. They're certainly not getting that money. Seattle Center is a city facility, and the city may be clamping down on those requirements. I honestly don't know the details. But when the city can't keep the libraries open due to short funding, I have to say that I don't mind paying my share of taxes.

And of course, you're setting the price of the CDs yourself. There's nothing to stop you from adding another dollar or two to the price you charge at the festival to cover your added expenses.

But don't accuse Northwest Folklife of trying to exploit the poor musician. As far as I'm concerned, any musician (and everybody else) who's making money at the festival has a moral obligation to put something back into the cost of the event's production. And that includes buskers, people selling CDs and even the folks who are paid to collect signatures on ballot petitions.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Mudjack
Date: 23 May 04 - 01:20 AM

NO, Not to give any discredit to Folklife, but it has grown bigger than my comfort zone can stand. Have passed it by for the last three years, Yes I miss it but really find I can do without all the busy-busy crowds.
Many good folks in the Seattle area, but I get to see you all at Rainy Camp.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,Fred Maslan
Date: 22 May 04 - 10:24 PM

Of course I'll be there Mary,
Art & Jenn sorry I won't be seeing you this year

Fred

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 22 May 04 - 03:08 AM

May I promote the Phil Thomas Tribute Concert, at the Center House Theater, Sunday 1-2 pm? Phil has been collecting BC song since 1959 and much of it is based in the northwest industries of fishing, logging and mining. The song that Utah Phillips sings, "I Remember Lovin' You" is from Phil's collection asd is the Chinook song "Seattle Illahee" with some 400 others. A Northwest treasure indeed!

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: MAG
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:12 PM

The crowds are a problem and I didn't really understand why until a couple of years ago, when some yuppy got mad that I needed to get past her with my guitar as a crowd blocking the way listening to a busker.

A lot of the crowd there are simply not kindred spirits. They seem to be there for the novelty, not the music or culture.

not to mention yups lacking in common courtesy.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Cuilionn
Date: 20 May 04 - 10:05 PM

Be sure an gae see ma friends frae Alaska, the "Rant & Raven" Morris Team. A brillliant act, combinin elements o Alaska Native dancing wi the English tradition, tae grait effect. This micht be their last year, as the husband o their musician jist gaet sent owerseas by his employer, an she's plannin tae gae alang... Gae see 'em, an tell Morris Dancer Julie that her friend in Maine says halloooooooo!!!

--Cuilionn

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: David Ingerson
Date: 20 May 04 - 09:29 PM

Those were great times, Mark, yes indeed. That was my first time, too, and then I continued for about 10 years or so performing my Irish songs. Always great times. But then the crowds--and trying to raise a family--got to me and I haven't been back for at least 7 years. But maybe after the kids are gone . . . .

David

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST
Date: 20 May 04 - 04:09 PM

Absurd overreach in taxation. Isn't it?

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Jon Bartlett
Date: 20 May 04 - 02:21 AM

Where are the singers going on Saturday night?

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Benjamin
Date: 16 May 04 - 02:38 AM

Reggie, I agree with you completely. The reason I like to buy CD's straight from the performers is that I know (or at least I thought I knew) that all the money is going straight to the performer. They shouldn't be taxing private CD sales. I sorry to hear your friend got kicked out for selling his CDs last year. I kind of thought that the whole point of having CD's while busking was to sell them.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: John P
Date: 13 May 04 - 10:19 AM

Guest, Marty,
Folklife is putting some renewed focus on Northwest instrument builders this year. Maybe they noticed that the Music Emporium room, like the fountain lawn, was being taken over by drums and everyone else was edging away. I work for Dusty Strings and we had stopped setting up a booth a few years ago. We're going back this year, just because Folklife is acting like they are trying to create a better environment for luthiers. It's going to be open Sat - Mon in the San Juan rooms (right by the beer garden and the NW Court stage). I'm sure I'll be there at least part of the weekend talking about harps and hammered dulcimers.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Mark Cohen
Date: 13 May 04 - 01:01 AM

I vividly remember the thrill of my first Folklife, in 1986. It was the first time I'd ever performed on stage (well, at least the first time since I was Baby Bear in my first grade production of Goldilocks). I performed with now-Mudcatter David Ingerson and Mary Benson, and I was in heaven! Wish I could go this year. I'll be thinking about all you folks. Give my best to the Sacred Cow Harmogenizers. One of these years...

Aloha,
Mark

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Deckman
Date: 12 May 04 - 11:24 PM

Reggie, It's been many, many years since the powers to be have remembered just who makes FolkLife run ... the musicans and volunteers. Now days, it's just a big event in Seattle where the city shakers and movers do EVERYTHING they can to bring in the bucks and discourage the spirit of the event. Bob

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: reggie miles
Date: 12 May 04 - 07:34 PM

What next? They're probably going to tell us that we can't busk without a permit and fee!

With all of the volunteer effort that has gone into that event for years and years to make it fly, by the local folks like you and I, who get paid nothing for our energy and time to make the event happen, why do they now want to exact more from us in the way fees for selling our own CDs?!

In my case I've had to produce just about every aspect of my recordings, my art and graphics work as well as music. Nothing was farmed out. Just so I could afford to create the dern things.

I understand that this is the first year in a long while that the festival will actually not be operating in the red. So wouldn't ya think it would be a nice gesture on their part to allow those who are volunteering their efforts to be a part of the event to be exempt from such fees? You know, as a way of saying thanks for all of the support this year. I guess their way of saying thanks is just the opposite.

GGGGGRRRRRRRRR!

One young performer with quite a following was actually booted from the festival last year for selling his own CDs while busking! I know this guy, and have sat in a bit with him as he played. This action on the part of the festival organizers was shameful. I don't think that there is anything wrong with casual CD sales by the performers. It's a very special and personal treat to be able to purchase directly from a performer. Making CD sales a separate function by including third party retailers to the festival, that hike the price of recordings to get their piece of the sales pie, is fine for those who do not wish to deal with the task of carrying and offering CDs for sale, and there are many who are willing to use this service, but I don't think the organizers need to be discouraging CD sales by performers who do not wish to use these services, and further, to send away folk performers for choosing not to make use of these services. It's disgraceful, and the penny pinching, thoughtless, and heartless bureaucrat(s) who thought this action was a way of promoting folk music should get a clue!

End of rant

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,marty
Date: 12 May 04 - 03:26 PM

I dont mind the crowds,alot to see although I was a little disapointed about the lack of luthiers showing their instruments last year.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,marty
Date: 12 May 04 - 03:23 PM

I am going that Monday

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST
Date: 12 May 04 - 03:04 PM

sounds like a scam to get more money.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stewart
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:14 PM

Interested in selling your CDs at Folklife? Here's the "Rules"

"CD Selling: If you are interested in selling your CDs you must obtain a permit from Northwest Folklife. Permit applications are available on-line or from the SPCs on-site. There is a $10.00 fee for the permit along with a 15% commission on CD sales, net of sales tax. In order to sell you must also have a City of Seattle Business license or purchase a temporary one from Northwest Folklife for $20.00. The temporary license is good for all four days of the Festival. Please see the application form for more information."

If you're going to sell only a few CDs, after all the fees it's hardly worth it. Or sell on the sly, and avoid the CD Police! Is this something new? I don't think it was the case last year or in the past. What do you think?

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Benjamin
Date: 12 May 04 - 02:17 AM

Okay, the schedual says were on at 8:20pm, Sunday night in the Rainier room. Maybe I'll see (or meet) some of you there!

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,Jon Bartlett
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:57 AM

Rika and I are in the Shanty Show with the VFSS Crew and as ourselves (Saturday, NW Court, 2-6, hope the beer's more interesting this year), The Tribute to Phil Thomas Show (Sunday 1-2 Center House Theatre) in recognition of the man without whom there'd be no BC traditional music, and with the NW History Labour Songs (also Sunday 11-1, Nesholm Family Lecture hall). I hope there'll be some sort of mass sing Saturday night (last year we were at McMmininiminiumns) and of course the Sunday night sing at the other Irish pub.

Among others I'm looking forward to is Jim Page - he gets better every year! Yes, it's crowded and very noisy, but I figure I can put up with that in return for the best group sings anywhere. I've only missed 2 or 3 since 1975 and I don't plan to stop now! Mary G., I'll look out for you.

Jon Bartlett

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: John P
Date: 12 May 04 - 01:11 AM

Awl we need is Reggie hammering on tool puns.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Benjamin
Date: 12 May 04 - 12:25 AM

I'll be playing in a traditional Balinese ensemble Sunday at 8pm (I'm pretty sure that's the right time) in the Rainer Room.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Deckman
Date: 11 May 04 - 10:10 PM

Reggie ... Forgive me if I "DISTON" myself from your puns. Looking forward to seeing and hearing you. Bob and Judy

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,reggie miles
Date: 11 May 04 - 08:38 PM

I'll be there. Here's my official blurb about my workshop.

Are you seeking to unlock the secrets of how to play the musical saw? Don't torture yourself with feelings of being ripped, or hacked off because there aren't any musical saw workshops at your local festivals. Your wait is over. Here's your golden opportunity. Hop the nearest great metal bird in sky, dirigible, horseless carriage, boxcar, or your prefered mode of transport, to this year's 2004 Northwest Folklife Festival. The good folks there have just confirmed that I, Reggie Miles, will once again be hosting a musical saw workshop,(my second) titled: (drum roll please)

How To Play The Musical Saw In 80 Minutes (Or Less)
Saturday May 29th, 12:00-1:20 PM in the Learning Lab

I'll also be collecting names of those interested in joining the Sawplayers Association of Washington State (SAWS). An organization bent on keeping this nearly lost art form alive.

Yes, soon the entire Northwest will be teeming with musical saw players. I've already given out info to probably a hundred folks, about where they could purchase their own musical saws. There are now three locations in the Seattle metropolitan area where one can purchase a bonafide musical saw. It won't be long. I can see it now. Musical saw players will be on every street corner. Musical saws will replace guitars as the instrument of choice for all musicians. Saw bands with band saws will spring up everywhere. Symphonies will be replaced by sawphonies. It'll be a movement, a revolution!

Let's boldly saw what no man has sawn before!

The latest details are posted at my new, (and improved) website's Calendar page. www.geocities.com/nobro2

I also have a single performance scheduled on the Exhibition Hall Lawn Stage on Saturday at 3:00PM. This year I'm excited to announce that I'll be performing all of my original songs. I hope to saw ya there.

If I don't see ya in the future, I'll saw ya in the pasture.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: artbrooks
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:05 PM

Missing it this year. Herself says that she might let me (us) go next year.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: mg
Date: 11 May 04 - 05:04 PM

Workshops are great. No hot weather, no rain, small groups, great leaders. And you can avoid the crowds all day if you want. mg

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: MAG
Date: 11 May 04 - 04:54 PM

The workshops   better be listed on the mailed out schedule. They ARE the main reason many of us come.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:58 PM

All of you have a lot of fun there!

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stewart
Date: 11 May 04 - 02:56 PM

The Folklife Schedule is posted on the web HERE. Unfortunately the workshops in the Orcas Room (NW Court), one of which I am leading (see 2nd post), are not listed. For me Folklife is more about participation rather than "entertainment." When I pointed this out to Michael Herschensohn, the Executive Director, he replied: "I do agree with you that when added up the signs point to a concerted effort to prevent attendance at workshops and disrespect those people who generously contribute the time and effort to make them happen. The truth, however, the workshops are an important part of the festival that we value highly. " He promised that the workshops would be listed on the web page by today (May 11th), so we'll just have to wait and see. If they don't appear, and you want to find out, just email Michael.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: John P
Date: 07 May 04 - 10:01 PM

I'm sure I'll be there quite a bit. My new band Crookshank will be playing Euro-trad music on the Northwest Court Stage at 5:40 on Sunday.

John Peekstok

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: emily rain
Date: 07 May 04 - 08:28 PM

for someone who's not fond of crowds or poor sound engineering or long hikes or long lines, folklife is kind of a chore. every year, i vow i won't go again, and every year around this time i start to think "oh, but it could be fun... maybe just one day..."

you'll probably see me there, and i'll probably be cranky. :)

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Amergin
Date: 07 May 04 - 07:45 PM

I may try to make it up...as I'll have that weekend off...but I dunno yet.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stewart
Date: 07 May 04 - 07:38 PM

Any others?

S. in Seattle

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Miken
Date: 05 May 04 - 11:57 AM

I'll be there, Mary, most of the weekend. "The Turkey Pluckers" will perform Friday afternoon ( our old string band from the 60's).
Mike

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: GUEST,MAG at the Library lab
Date: 04 May 04 - 09:28 PM

I will be there sometime Saturday. I need to be rested for the Roadhouse 11 - 12 on Saturday, when the contra band I play in, Wednesday Night Band, will be on for the dance. Our caller is Howard Ostby,the prez of our club, Walla Walla Friends of Acoustic Music. I will be thelarge and beautiful (and very nervousO rhythm guitar player.

Subject: RE: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: Stewart
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:41 PM

Fado's Irish Pub Sunday Session will have a workshop on the Irish Session - Monday, May 31, 4:30 - 5:30 in the Orcas Room, Seattle Center.

Cheers, S. in Seattle

Subject: Seattle Folklife Memorial Day Weekend
From: mg
Date: 04 May 04 - 08:25 PM

Who is going? Me I hope. Lots of great fun and wonderful music. Lots of crowds but you can avoid them by going to workshops. mg