Invading with peace

Subject: Invading with peace
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 03:07 AM

Look I know this is a silly ageing hippy idea but could a country or group of countries invade another with peace.

What would such an option be like? Perhaps we could take some ideas from the fall of the Soviet Union and the related Eastern Block countries.

Lots and lots of people crossing borders and staying on the streets, no violence or threats of violence. Sharing of simple food, addressing some practical issues, I don't know.... clean water or field health clinics?

What could be done with a budget big enough to start a war?

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: dianavan
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 03:41 AM

I really like your last question.

Wouldn't it be wonderful if this were the worst of it and our governments would start to turn this whole thing around and begin to grasp the idea of sustainable communities? Imagine what could be accomplished! We could truly be a beacon for the world.

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 04:36 AM

Sounds good to me.

Peace isn't just the absence of war. Perhaps we are looking for some kind of state sponsored non-violent direct action?

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 05:00 AM

they used to sell a Tshirt that said

fighting for peace
is like fucking for virginity

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 05:07 AM

Yes I remember that.

The problem is 2 fold. Many countries in the world are ruled by evil bad dictators who kill, torture and murder people. We in the west(?) are not very good at helping to get rid of such people.

What shall we do?

1. Not much
2. Invade with war
3. Invade with peace ...... is this possible because 1 and 2 are pretty bad.

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 05:17 AM

The word "invade" is in itself an aggressive one, and perhaps therein lies the problem.

No borders= no invasions.

But then, I'm also a silly aging hippie, and I thought that by now we'd be living in a global community. Well, not really. I was never quite that optimistic, but in my heart I knew and know still that if we can educate the young to believe that nothing separates us other than our thoughts, then we have a (non)fighting chance.

..xx..e

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 05:27 AM

Except that there will always be bullies, and they will always dominate because they appeal to the bully hidden inside large numbers of people - it's a human nature thang.

What would be more constructive would be a genuinely united United Nations, with the power and resources to nip the bullies in the bud on the basis of 'The General Good', not soloists acting out of national, economic or personal interest.

It's an airy-fairy idealistic notion, but you lot started it! (LOL)

Oh well, we can always dream!

J :0)

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Pied Piper
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 06:09 AM

A UN with teeth and no veto, but it won't happen if the USA can help it.

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 06:54 AM

Wasn't there something called the Children's Crusade in the middle ages that tried this? I think it ended in tears. But it might be worth trying again, all the same.

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Bobert
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 09:09 AM

Les,

I don't know if you were around a couple years back but I started a thread about a Department of Peace... It was purdy interesting... If you click on "Bobert" it might still be archieved...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 09:56 AM

The notion of invading with peace is a wonderful idea but most people find it difficult to put in to practice. One reason is that noone knows how to spread peace per se. John Kennedy founded the Peace Corps forty years ago with his very idea in mind. But he also invaded Cuba, blockaded it during the missile crisis, and engaged the nation in Vietnam.

The Peace Corps makes it its business to help and educate, but that really only happens when peace is relatively at work. It doesn't know anything about bringing peace about or even particularly why helping people contributes to peace, althoguh it seems natural that ir does.

A

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: CarolC
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:14 AM

I agree with Srollin' Johnny on the UN thing. And I would like to see a world court with the US as a member nation. However, having said that, here's one of my favorite activist sayings...

Think Globally
Act Locally

Each of us really can make a difference in the world if we want to. And if enough of us do this, it will have a global effect.

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:28 AM

Pursuit of Peace on Terra

Bobert's Department of Peace thread

For an interesting view, search for threads including the word Peace in the title since the beginning of the Cat.


A

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 10:52 AM

See also This threadf

Interesting -- a lot of this discussion has been had several times over.

A

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Wolfgang
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 04:03 PM

It's a nice dream. The good thing is sometimes it can come true. The bad thing is the correct timing when it may come true is difficult.

Gandhi had the perfect timing and the perfect opponent for his strategy. A West-German once climbed over the wall in order to destroy automatic shooting apparatuses in the East. He was shot, not by an apparatus, by a man. 1953 a peaceful demonstration was shot down in East Berlin, 1989 the people danced on the wall. The carnations revolution was peaceful and successful, the spring revolution in Prague was peaceful and not successful, crushed by tanks.

McGrath once has mentioned the beautiful picture of a Chinese girl stopping a tank 15 years and 6 weeks ago. A few weeks later the tanks came again and this time did not stop when people were in their way. That was 15 years ago last week and I nearly had started a thread about it but I thought not enough were interested being reminded that massacre.

It can work, yes, and it does in rare moments of history. But my personal heroes in history are the Jews of the Warszwa ghetto who with no chance at all except choosing the way of dying did take what little they had in way of arms to fight the German army as long as they had breath.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Amos
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 04:21 PM

A fine choice, given they had so few options.

A

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Deckman
Date: 12 Jun 04 - 04:36 PM

"Last night I had the strangest dream,
I'd ever dreamed before,
I dreamed the world had all agreed,
To put an end to war.

I dreamed I saw a mighty room,
The room was filled with men,
And the paper they were signing said,
They'd never fight again.

And when the paper was all signed,
And a million copies made,
They all joined hands and bowed their heads,
And gratefull prayers were prayed.

And the people in the streets below,
Were dancing round and round,
While swords and guns and uniforms,
Were scattered on the ground.

Last night I had the strangest dream ..." Bob

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 05:44 AM

If war is cheaper than peace will market forces make it happen?

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 06:38 AM

Invade for peace
Slightly preganant
The Curates Egg [Good in parts]

Oxymorons all.

Giok

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Bobert
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 10:02 AM

Well, Les, if you had read the Department of Peace thread you'd see that there are lots of folks who aren't as concerned about about cost effectiveness between the two but the profits that would be lost without war... Okay, maybe concerned is not the correct term... Just make that observations...

I disagree but do conceed that in the short run it's going to take some very creative thinking to change from a war economy to one of peace and is probably a very scarey propositon for a lot of corporations led by folks who cannot concieve of such heresy... I would, however, like to just mention the J.Paul Getty Aircraft Comapnay who went from making bombers in WW II to making some of the finest travel traivlers and mobile homes (Spartan/Spartanette's) after the war with the same plants and employees... It can be done once the thinking has been changed...

Ahhhhh, just another thought about the social effects on a society that goes from one war to another. Alot of folks are negatively effected to the point that they become qutie anti-social and agressive. Just look at the violent crimes in the US. Or the way folks drive, for that matter...

Bobert

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 02:27 PM

Sorry Bobert, I needed to cut a tree down, which is a pretty crap excuse for nor reading your Dept of peace. And now the England-France match calls, but I will not get nationalistic and silly, honest

Subject: RE: Invading with peace
From: Donuel
Date: 13 Jun 04 - 04:00 PM

The FOX news coverage of the event would go something like, Thousands of desperate hungry refugees have invaded...