BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.

Subject: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Ebbie
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 01:22 AM

Excerpts
Derrick Z. Jackson
The Boston Globe

Bush: America's objective in Iraq is limited and it is firm. We seek an independent, free, and secure Iraq.
LBJ, 1966: Our purpose is a limited one and that is to permit self-determination for the people of South Vietnam.

Bush: As a proud and independent people, Iraqis do not support an indefinite occupation and neither does America. We're not an imperial power.
LBJ, 1966: We seek neither territory nor bases, economic domination or a military alliance in Vietnam. We fight for the principle of self-determination - that the people of South Vietnam should be able to choose their own course.

Bush: Of course, I want to know why we haven't found any weapon (WMD) yet. But I still know Saddam Hussein was a threat. And the world is better off without Saddam Hussein. There's a historic opportunity here to change the world.
LBJ, 1967: Overall, we are making progress. We are satisfied with that progress. Our allies are pleased with that progress. Every country that I know of in that area that is familiar with what is happening thinks it is absolutely essential that Uncle Sam keep his word and stay there.

Bush: We will succeed in Iraq. We're carring out a decision that has already been made and will not change.
LBJ, 1968: So far as changing our basic strategy, the answer would be no.

Bush: Now is the time and Iraq is the place in which the enemies of the civilized world are testing the will of the civilized world.
LBJ, 1966: The time is now and the place is Vietnam.

Bush, in answer to what his biggest mistake might be: Hmmm. I wish you'd have given me this written question ahead of time so I could plan for it... I'm sure something will pop into my head in the midst of this press conference with all the pressure of trying to come up with an answer but it hadn't yet. ... I hope, I don't want to sound like I've made no mistakes. I'm confident I have. I just haven't - you just put me under the spot here and maybe I'm not as quick - as quick on my feet as I should be in coming up with one.
LBJ: I go to bed every night feeling that I have failed that day because I could not end the conflict in Vietnam.

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 03:09 AM

That last Bush - LBJ quote is telling.

Imagine -- we now have a president with less nobility and more ego than LBJ. Who would've thought?

clint

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Teribus
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 03:26 AM

Not at all like Vietnam - different time - different factors - different players.

From the extracted passage posted by Ebbie, Mr. Derrick Z. Jackson of "The Boston Globe" is being very selective and deliberately disingenuous - he is comparing apples to oranges and he knows it

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 10:14 AM

Teribus:

The similarities are just as telling as the differences. A long and costly piece of misconceived adventurism, covered by disingenuous rationalizations, costing far too many lives and far too much money. A quagmire of excessive meddling in the affairs of others while not understanding those affairs well enough to meddle int hem effectively.

And, a war supported by an administration without popular agreement.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Bobert
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 10:28 AM

Vietnam: tin and rubber
Iraq: Oil

While there are similarities in terms of biting off more than is chewable, I gotta agree (yuck) with the T-Bird on this one... Oil trumps tin and rubber...

Now don't go getting no big head, T-Bird...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Blackcatter
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 11:30 AM

BIG difference.

The Vietnamese wore black robes, the Iraqis tend to go for white/tan with a splash of color.

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Rapparee
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 12:50 PM

Not as much water or jungle.

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: DougR
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 01:50 PM

Teribus: you're right, of course, but Ebbie doesn't see it.

Amos: "A quagmire of excessive meddling in the affairs of others while not understanding those affairs well enough to meddle int hem effectively." 'splain that please. You mean that had Bush understood Iraq's affairs better than he did, he would have been justified in meddling in your point of view?

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: artbrooks
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 03:11 PM

Personally, I don't buy the "capitalist exploitation" argument for either country/war. IMHO, both are entirely the result of the national leadership entirely misunderstanding the amount it could bite off and chew. Eisenhower/Kennedy were firm believers in the domino theory and the need to "contain Communism," and saw Vietnam as part of that process. Johnson/Nixon were caught by the "we can't leave until we've finished the job" syndrome. I decline to attempt to explain Bush's motivation, except to say that his father shouldn't have dropped him on his head so often as a child.

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: Amos
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 03:37 PM

THere are effective ways to influence other nations. I don't think armed invasion is one of them except in the most extreme circumstances.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Not at all like Vietnam? Right.
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 14 Jun 04 - 10:26 PM

What Mr Jackson has given us (via Ebbie) is an interesting set of paired statements. We could look at the similarities & differences in each pair & learn something, maybe.

Like the fella said, "Every hand is different, and every hand's the same."

clint