BS: Federal election (Canada)

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: meself
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 02:56 PM

Thanks for that info!

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Charmion's brother Andrew
Date: 22 Sep 21 - 09:52 AM

The electoral districts are redistributed and boundaries adjusted every 10 years after the decennial census, as is done in the U.S. It isn't a speedy process, usually taking about four years before the reports with the recommended changes are tabled in the House. There are limits to what changes are possible, as Quebec has been guaranteed that their representation will not be reduced. PEI is also a fly in the ointment, as they have four senators and, by the constitution, it cannot have less representation in the Commons than they have in the Senate; with a population of about 160,000, it is hard to justify three ridings in PEI, let alone four.

An interesting outcome from the pandemic is that, as work from home becomes a more common option and it allows people to move from denser areas (urban ridings) to less dense areas (rural ridings), the migration may cause a change in demographics and politics that will change the face of Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: meself
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 08:29 PM

From Edmonton, I mean ... !

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: meself
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 08:29 PM

I was surprised that the Conservatives 'won' the popular vote by a few percentage points, while winning about 30 fewer seats than the Liberals. As in the American system, but not as extreme, it does seem something of a flaw. The simplest solution seems to be to re-jig some of the ridings, which I gather is done periodically (I never paid attention to it before).

We had a Liberal elected in Calgary, which is noteworthy, in a largely South Asian riding. There may be another Liberal from Calgary; the votes are still being counted.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Charmion
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 06:15 PM

The surprise is the surge in popularity of the so-called People’s Party of Canada, led by that total dweeb Maxime Bernier.

I was tallying votes last night from a majority-Mennonite village just north of Stratford. The Conservative candidate received half the votes, but his runner-up was not the Liberal (as expected) but the PPC candidate. Mind you, the PPC has no seats in Parliament yet, wasn’t even invited to the leaders’ debates, and is led by Maxime Bernier, a francophone noted more for ineptitude and out-of-stepness than for any conventional notion of political leadership. That this outfit has so much appeal to red-neck Ontario is a fact well worth the attention of the entire intelligentsia, not to mention the social great and good.

For the record, I generally hold my nose and vote Liberal for the sake of their platform. If I had to vote for the leader, I would be compelled to screw up my ballot, throw it at the District Returning Officer, and stomp off in disgust.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: keberoxu
Date: 21 Sep 21 - 06:02 PM

any surprises?

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: meself
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 09:19 PM

Much the same, with a few seats difference one way or the other. Trudeau gambled that the pandemic would be all over by now, and that in the euphoria, the Liberals would be re-elected with a comfortable majority. Well, he gambled wrong, obviously, and this elections just seems a big waste of time and money to most voters - the anger is not so great that it will do much damage, though ....

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: keberoxu
Date: 20 Sep 21 - 08:27 PM

"Snap" election this time.
With a Son of a Trudeau.
How do you think it will turn out?

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 07:23 PM

brucie - did you find the goat? we miss your funny comments.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 03:10 PM

Yeah, that's the peculiar thing about politics in Canada...only the friggin' Conservatives can be counted upon to do what they SAY they are going to do if elected...and what they say they are going to do is of course, disastrously wrong! :-)

It works this way:

1. Elect a Liberal who promises not to do what those crazy Conservatives would do. Once in, he does exactly what those crazy Conservatives said they would do, while busily pretending not to at the same time. He privatizes, favours the wealthy, and reduces social services. Almost everything slowly gets worse.

2. Elect a Conservative, and he will do the same thing as the liberal, only he'll make no bones about it! He is proud of his rapacious policies, and believes that they will magically make everything get better. Almost everything gets slowly worse.

3. Elect an NDPer, and he will try desperately not to do what the Conservatives would, but he will either do it or soon get checkmated and hamstrung by the big business community and then turfed out of office. Almost everything gets slowly worse.

4. Vote for the Greens, the Canadian Action Party or an independent. They won't form a government anyway and almost everything will still get slowly worse.

5. All of the above does not count if you live in Quebec, where you can elect the Bloc Quebecois and at least feel independent and in control of the situation. :-) But chances are that things will still get worse anyway.

Conclusion: Politicians don't really run Canada (they just follow orders from Head Office), and the public doesn't really run Canada either. Big business and rich interests really run Canada...and much of that big business has its home offices in the USA.

Still, Canada's a nice place to be! I put that down to the fact that we have a basically moderate social tradition to stand on, and we are fortunate to not be a superpower with delusions of grandeur.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: TS
Date: 01 Jul 04 - 02:50 PM

Here Here to "Bitching Rights"!!

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Cluin
Date: 30 Jun 04 - 02:03 PM

Low voter turnout = high voter apathy.

Not about the issues, but more about the futility of the process since there is a high level of cynicism (especially amongst younger voters which contribute most to the numbers of those who didn't show up to mark their X) concerning the conduct of those elected once they get in. "It doesn't matter who wins," they figure, "They're all lying bastards and break their promises and do whatever they want for their cronies once they get in power."

The conduct of the provincial Liberals in Ontario has certainly reinforced this opinion, but let's not forget we had an honest politician in this province not long ago... Mike Harris and his Conservatives did exactly what they threatened to do. More's the pity! Just goes to show you that it really does matter that you get out and vote; there really are idealogical differences to choose from.

And if nothing else, my particip[ating in the vote gives me "bitching" rights. If you couldn't be bothered to go vote now, then shut the fuck up later.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 11:35 PM

Maybe 40% were hoping that Canada would adopt an Australian style ballot and have an extra box to mark NONE OF THE ABOVE.

Cadman could still give the Liberals a majority. Sort of the antithesis of Elijah Harper, only played out in BC instead of Manitoba, although somehow I doubt Cadman would hold up a feather.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 10:15 PM

I read today that this election had the lowest voter turnout since 1898, and I'm really puzzled -- I thought it would be a record high, since there was so much agitation going on about it. It was apparently around 60%.

Any ideas?

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 07:17 PM

Metchosin, you bet we do share a similar opinion. Try as they do, I find that Canadians are a bit slower to swing to the right of the political spectrum than are amny other peoples. As you astutely point out. there is a healthy skepticism of everything governmental, and we tend to look at our elected as guys and gals getting our money to make the country work. However, this type of vote (minority government) is a kick in the ass to the ruling party and is a polite way of saying

1) We don't like the alternatives we have been offered or more of us would have voted for one of them

2) We are willing to allow you to become more like what we want and you have a few years to do that

3) We will vote Conservative in the next election (maybe 18 months away) just to teach you a lesson

4) We didn't like the Conservatives in this election because they thought they were so cute and very slick--we don't do cute or slick

5) Stop stealing our money if you wish to remain employed

I truly hope the NDP can became a bit more of a people's party. They have to offer a vision the rest of us can see. They would triple their votes if they did. Harper will sell us to the States; however, Martin will allow the States to steal us. I am not sure the NDP know where the States are, and of course the Bloc will lose many seats if the Liberals can at least portray a picture of honesty, something they haven't done for a few years now.

Later.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 06:02 PM

We seem to share a similar opinion Guest.

I was going to post the following earlier, then changed my mind because I figured I was rambling a bit. So here's the ramble, not as succinct as you own.

Guest petr, I think another another reason too, for more Liberal votes here in BC, than in the past, is the change in BC demographics regarding the increase in the Asian population in lower mainland ridings. The Asian vote has, historically, usually supported the Liberals.

Not miracles IMO, Justa Picker, Canadians generally are a pretty stubborn bunch. When they have a mind to, they do put their foot down and declare "No bloody way!" The attitude made some of them quite difficult for their officers to deal with during WWII. Not only did we develop a fairly strong sense of self preservation, but also a need born out of necessity, in a land that could be particularly harsh, to realize that our survival often calls for collective activity.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 05:09 PM

Canadians are a socialist-type people. That's a result of geography and demographics. With all its faults, Canadian health care is light years ahead of most of the world.

Parenthetically, of course rich people want to have a separate health care system for themselves: they're rich. Don't want to wait in line like the plebes. Hell, ya gotta be rich in the first place to think like that (line borrowed from "Platoon").

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Justa Picker
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:52 PM

It worked out perfectly.
Liberals got the minority and can work with the NDP to pass legislation and can tell Reform-Alliance-Conservative and the *Block to go fuck themselves.

*I've never understood how a party committed to the break up off the country are permitted to be Federal Party and to have Federal seats in the legislature, since they represent the interests of only 1 province. Then again the same could be said of the Neo Cons in their conservative clothing and Alberta. Interestingly enough, one of the main advisers and movers and shakers guiding their election strategy and policies from the shadows was non other than Brian Mulroney, the unrepentant and arrogant bastard responsible for the demise of the original conservative party and who brought us the wonderful GST.

Mercifully the CDN people are not as collectively stupid as I thought they were, going into yesterday's election. Small miracles.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST,petr
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:51 PM

I agree with LH now a minority govt has to tread a lot more carefully
and may bring in good legislation.

regarding the less than expected conservative showing in BC though I think it has more to do with peoples reaction against the provincial
govt. which even is actually conservative (despite its name Liberal Party)

and probably the other reason is that over the years - the population has changed in BC, with a steady influx from Ontario over the last 20years. It wasnt until John Turner ran in vancouver in 84 that the lliberals got a seat west of Ontario for years(not counting 1or2 manitoba seats)

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:21 PM

I have no affiliation with the NDP, do my opinions about healthcare make me one of their cranks?

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 04:12 PM

And before any relax a bit, on the CBC, David Anderson, carrot up his ass, self impressed twit of the year, narrowly re-elected Liberal for Victoria, just praised Keith Martin, narrowly re-elected Reform/Conservative/come Liberal for his ideas and position on Health Care.

We almost managed to dump the Keith the Rat in this riding, sorry we in the very far west couldn't prevent sending him your way, it wasn't for lack of trying for a goodly amount.

My question is, if the current public system is so bloody bad that the rich want to opt out, in favour of their own private system, why would they assume that the current public system is good enough for the rest of us plebes? Universal public health care needs some repairs, it doesn't need to be gutted. The NDP better godamned keep the Liberal's feet to the fire on this issue.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 03:35 PM

The Bloc vote I think is not so much a show of support for separation as it is an anti-Liberal statement. Martin got too big for our good. It's interesting that the Conservatives are a coalition, and it is equally interesting that it will take a coalition of NDP and Liberal to pass legislation. The NDP have needed this opportunity for years. Now, if only they can avoid stepping on their cranks.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 03:31 PM

I think you are right on the mark there, Metchosin. Good point. The French may in a weird way be the saving grace of this country, so let's keep 'em in it if at all possible.

Back in the colonial days it was the French who were flexible and "liberal" about lifestyle, etc, which allowed them to relate to the Natives far better than the notoriously tight-assed British...who had to have everything their way. The French are natural born liberals and radicals, it seems.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 01:36 PM

Did anyone else catch Rick Mercer's sumation of the results on the CBC? I was ROTFLMAO, perhaps the most insightful and cutting observations of the whole election.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 01:27 PM

IMO, much of the pool of the "liberal" ethic in this country, is the result of the people of Quebec. Which is one of the main reasons that talk of separation is so disconcerting for me, aside from all the other ramifications. Quebec, in a lot of ways represents the "heart" of this country.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: ToulouseCruise
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:54 PM

Reel...
sorry it has been so long for the reply... but yes, I do believe that Teflon Frank McKenna has a good shot at the PMship, probably about 6 yrs down the road (win a seat either in a by- or general election, get a big spot like justice, finance, or industry, then go for it during a leadership convention). Bernard Lord, the current NB Premier who many had hoped would go federal for the PC's, hasn't got a snowball's chance in hell to get the Big Chair.

Brian.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:35 PM

Marvelous! The best result possible. Minority governments are far more likely to pass good legislation than majority governments, because they cannot get away with acting like a de facto dictatorship. They have to LISTEN for a change.

Canada has once again shown that it does not want to turn to the radical right. It's essentially a far more liberal society than the USA, and always has been.

The peculiar thing, though, is that the ruling Liberal Party has gotten elected 4 times now by promising NOT to move to the right....but as soon as they were safely in office they pushed through legislation very similar to what they said the wouldn't do! (meaning legislation taken straight from the policy pages of the Right which the majority of people voted AGAINST when we voted Liberal...or NDP)

This indicates to me that big business actually runs both the Liberal and the Conservative parties behind the scenes, and it doesn't matter a damn what the voters have to say about it. Right wing social policy goes forward regardless of whether it gets voted out or not.

You can see the same thing in England where a supposedly Labour government has been hijacked by Tony Blair who is pushing foreign policies which have betrayed the very constituency that elected him and have alienated much of his own party membership.

It's an absolute scandal, and we as voters do not seem to be in any position to alter the situation.

I am hoping that the NDP moves the Liberals to the left this time, in spite of themselves.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:29 PM

In BC, the Conservatives saw their share of the popular vote dip 20 percentage points, while the NDP's jumped 15. The Conservatives only got 36.25 % of the vote here, which means that almost 64%, did not vote for them.

So much for el ted's proclamation that the west, is pro Harper. It's blanket statements such as that, that make some British Columbians feel that a fair number Ontario eastward have little understanding of anything about this country, beyond their own provincial boundaries.

Alberta may be strident, but it is not the only province east of Ontario. BC is the 3rd most populous province in Canada and has almost twice the population of the whole of Atlantic Canada.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Willie-O
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 10:46 AM

Too bad about Olivia Chow. As in a number of other ridings, although they will protest otherwise, the Green Party got a Liberal elected.

She lost by 800. Green candidate got 2250. Nuff said.

Same thing happened in at least two Hamilton area ridings, and in a number of BC ridings. You can't always safely say that a Green vote would have gone NDP otherwise, but I figure that saying 1 in 3 would have is quite conservative.

We're going to have to work this one out somehow. Ideally by proportional representation, everyone would win except the Liberals and Conservatives, so that will be a tough one to get. But if Layton actually makes it his number one priority as a demand, as he has said he would, who knows? Then the Greens would owe him a big favour, such as not whacking his wife next time...

I was heavily involved in the NDP campaign in our huge rural riding.
In fact we had the election night party here. We got 13.2% which we were very happy about--way up from last time, and this is a very Conservative area since Moses was a pup.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: black walnut
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 08:34 AM

I love when the election turns out differently from what the poll industry predicts. However, perhaps their predictions of a close race caused people to vote Liberal instead of NDP. Glad for Layton -sad for Chow!

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 01:57 AM

sure is.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 29 Jun 04 - 12:58 AM

Liberal minority with the NDP as kingmakers! What a relief!

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: black walnut
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 12:26 PM

A friend of mine got several phone calls from a different riding...now that's beyond annoying!

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST,James
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 12:23 PM

I am off to the voting place..I hope my vote counts...I have never been so apprehensive about the outcome of a General election...let us hope all goes well.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:23 AM

Really? They've been doing telephone advertising? Ha! Another good reason for leaving the phone on the answering service all the time. I have not heard one political message yet on it.

Well, I am about to go and cast my almost meaningless vote for a representative who does not necessarily really represent me. (sigh) It just happens that the Liberal MP in my riding is a good guy whom I know and respect, and he actually deserves to be re-elected, so he will probably get my vote, despite my low opinion of his party in a more general sense. We'll see. Maybe I'll get a last minute change of heart for some reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: black walnut
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 11:17 AM

I'm so mad that the NDPs used spammy pushy telephone advertising, along with the rest of the parties who I would have expected to intrude on my private space like that.

But I'll vote anyway.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 10:56 AM

Yes the Great Canadian Voter will go to the booth hold their noses and Vote Liberal again. The Liberal Rapists will get a minority Government thanks to carefully controlled media attacks on Harper and continue their abuse of the Canadian Public. Sigh....soooo boring

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Raptor
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 09:14 AM

But Don't Vote for Harper!

Unless you want the be another State of America!

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jun 04 - 07:43 AM

GET OUT AND VOTE TODAY....IT IS SO IMPORTANT TO BE PART OF OUR DEMOCRACY.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: black walnut
Date: 25 Jun 04 - 09:13 AM

I just want to mention by way of interruption how absolutely wonderful it is that CBC isn't reporting this time around on the polls. They mention them from time to time but it isn't the first thing they talk about on news reports, and they try to avoid talking about polls as much as possible. How refreshing. I've enjoyed CBC Radio One's focussed discussions in the afternoons on topics such as the environment, and taxes, and health care.

~b.w.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 06:45 PM

They've got a medical system in Cuba that pays for EVERYTHING, including dentistry, and I noticed when I was down that that the average Cuban seems slimmer, healthier, and more active than the average Canadian or American. I wonder why? :-)

You know, if dental care was free in Canada do you really think anyone in this country would be dying slowly from being poisoned by their decaying teeth which they couldn't afford to get fixed? I don't think so.

For what I pay yearly for routine dental care in Canada (cleaning and maybe one cavity fixed), a Cuban could LIVE very nicely on for a couple of years. Some older Canadians go there to retire. I can see why. I hope their system survives for a long time, because it definitely deserves to.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 05:02 PM

Doubt if I will get another reply as this will require more than a form letter, but this is a copy of what I sent to Dr. Keith Martin MP running now as a Liberal candidate in our riding:

Dear Dr. Martin,

Thank you for your reply, however, we would still appreciate further clarification regarding the following position:

"Give Canadians the option to purchase services in a parallel private system for any procedure. Those who access this system will be freeing up space in the public system without removing resources."

1. Regarding "any procedure", would these "any" private "procedures" be performed in public hospitals or private hospitals?

2. If the procedures are to be carried out in private hospitals, do other Canadian physicians, sharing your viewpoint, have the capital to build, equip and maintain these private hospitals capable of any procedure? If not, from where do you propose the capital required for the building and equipping of these private hospitals be secured, in order to carry out "any procedure"?

3. If these "any" private "procedures" are to be carried out in public hospitals, using buildings and equipment paid from the public pocket, does that not mean that the taxpayer will be subsidizing the physician engaged in private procedures?

4. As most physicians commit all their hours now, in a public system, does not dropping the hours in the public system to 30 required hours for all physicians, cause a net loss to the public system of the availability of physicians within the public system?

5. Do you consider the advocation of a parallel private medical system an altruistic solution to the problems of funding and structure of the current Canadian public medical system?

6. Do others within the Liberal Party, seeking election, also share your viewpoint regarding a parallel private medical system?

Thank you in advance for your resonse.

Sincerely,

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 04:56 PM

I'm not. Received a response from our Liberal/Reform candidate and I asked for still further clarification on Health Care, after he sent me the following from his platform and I quote:

"Give Canadians the option to purchase services in a parallel private system for any procedure.". (emphasis mine)

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 04:43 PM

The West is mainly just anti-Ontario&Quebec. That's what it amounts to.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Metchosin
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 04:42 PM

depends how far west, yer talkin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: el ted
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 09:46 AM

The West is pro Harper.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Little Hawk
Date: 24 Jun 04 - 09:08 AM

Raptor - For the same reason some people get all worked up over which team wins some silly basketball game... :-) It gives the busy mind something to focus on.

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 10:55 PM

One of the interesting aspects of Harper is that despite what he believes, he's fairly intelligent. His speech at Civitas emphasized the slowness of any changes he would make to Canada -- he called them "incremental." I believe that if he became Prime Minister and tried to force the changes he wants quickly, his government would be thrown out. I believe he must realize how unpopular his proposals are with the majority of Canadians, and will try to slowly and sneakily put them in place, hoping we don't take much notice.

Gotta vote against him!

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Raptor
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 06:23 PM

Why do some folks get so wound up over the rantings of a Guest?

Raptor

Subject: RE: BS: Federal election (Canada)
From: Backstage Manager(inactive)
Date: 23 Jun 04 - 09:53 AM

Dorval Airport is now Pierre Elliot Trudeau Airport.