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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 12 Jul 04 - 04:34 AM I can't find the chords for this song anywhere, can anyone post a version with chords? I am sure this song wil be entering into the tradition! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 12 Jul 04 - 02:53 AM I have just got this e-mail from Maggie:
So thanks, Stigweard and Countess Richard, another aspect of the genealogy of the song which I hadn't suspected. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 11 Jul 04 - 06:49 PM I was talking to Maggie on the phone on Sunday - She said she might get round to putting some information up regarding the background etc to the song . I hope she does get round to it . |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 07 Jul 04 - 10:50 AM As in Leon Rosselson's excellent World Turned Upside Down, lyrics here , on Billy Bragg's site. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 07 Jul 04 - 10:13 AM I am so pleased with nthe way this thread has turned out - thanks for all those who have contributed! I loved the song the first time I heard it, and knowingwhat all the lyrics mean has made it even more special - it sums up exactly how I feel about our green and pleasant land. I think the crazy diggers doesn't refer to Dave and Daniel, but to a protest movement started in 1649 by a chap ,called Gerrad Winstanley. These guys are still ahead of our time now, let alone ahead of theirs back then. These sites tell it far better than I can: First is the bilderberg site here, the second here. Winstanley and the other Diggers were true revolutionaries, committed to non-violent direct action, whatever the provocation, simply to return the land to the ownership of the people where it belongs - but don't get me started on that subject! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: alanabit Date: 07 Jul 04 - 09:20 AM Why can't we adopt Maggie Holland's brilliant song as our national anthem? It beats the Hell out of the turgid dross we have at the moment. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish again Date: 07 Jul 04 - 03:29 AM Actually, Swampy's ("Daniel"'s) main cause celebre was the Newbury bypass in Oxfordshire, where the campaign of disruption was carried on for, oh, a year or more(?). Britain is a small country: and roads are overcrowded, but the environmental damage caused by building more and more is proportionately huge. Not only does it build on sensitive environments, but "islandisation" (where particular habitats are sliced into ever smaller areas until they're individually too small to support a viable population of ceratin species.) Yesterday the government announced a plan to expand a 61 mile stretch of the M6 between Birmingham and Manchester to ten lanes from the current six. "Here's two cheers for the crazy diggers; now their hour shall come around We shall plant the seed they saved as common wealth and common ground" |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 07 Jul 04 - 03:15 AM Sorry, Bearheart: I thought the George and Arthur were fairly obvious (you're absolutely right, btw: hence the "Deck the horse... drag the old sword from the deep") and threw in a joke which alluded to a cult UK TV show from the late 70s - a West London version of Starsky and Hutch called "Minder". Dave and Daniel are indeed two "diggers" who used tunnels amongst other active forms of protest to try to stop anvironmentally suspect projects such as the motorway which cut Twyford Downs into two with a huge ugly scar through a beautiful piece of landscape. As Leadfingers and Countess R said earlier: Daniel was the Swampy who gained quite a profile in the media at the time. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Bearheart Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:01 PM I always assumed that the guys' names were mythical heroes of England Arthur,as in King George, as in Saint and I thought Dave and Daniel referred to deceased statesmen-- but since I'm an American and not very knowedgeable about English history I don't know who the "good guys" and the "bad guys" in British gov history are, this might be more than shaky... Great thread-- I love all of her songs I've heard, but all second hand via June Tabor. Tried to find her albums when I was over last year but no luck. We have another teaching trip planned for October- in Somerset and Kent-- anyone know of a record shop in those areas where I can find her stuff? (I don't do Amazon/credit cards/etc). What's the best album to get? Bekki |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Willa Date: 06 Jul 04 - 03:25 PM Wow; Leadfingers, CR, Ed and Hamish - fascinating background info that. Many thanks! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Herga Kitty Date: 06 Jul 04 - 02:33 PM George slew Mildred's dragon, Arthur just penned it? Port and Brandy (Moira Craig and Mrs Admiral) sing A Proper Sort of Garden. Kitty |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 06 Jul 04 - 10:56 AM Dave and Daniel; George and Arthur. An easy mistake. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Kevin Sheils Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:57 AM I've never come into contact with Arthur Pint, Hamish, but I know his big brother very well! Just remembered, the Landlord of the Winchester was called Dave not George. Some confusion with Arthur Daley being played by George Cole I guess. Seriously off topic by now I guess! |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 06 Jul 04 - 08:33 AM Oh dear, Countess: I think I preferred not knowing that. Kevin: you'll remember George and Mildred? And it's proably Arthur Pint. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 06 Jul 04 - 05:27 AM Hamish, I seem to recall that Tesco went ahead and built the carpark around the objector. Didn't they invite her to the opening, which she attended carrying a Sainsbury's carrier bag? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Kevin Sheils Date: 06 Jul 04 - 04:41 AM So Hamish, which George and Arthur is it then? ;-) |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: GUEST, Hamish Date: 05 Jul 04 - 02:57 AM Okay: above are right so far. Eileen was the little lady in a Cotwolds village who wouldn't sell Tesco the little strip of land they needed for access to be able to build an adge of town supermarket, causing then to have to abandon the whole project. I asked Robb J about Meeta a few months ago: apparently they longer live underneath the big jets' path. However, there's no truth in the rumour that George and Arthur are Arthur Daly and George, the landlord of The Winchester. (This joke previously published in uk.music.folk.) |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Jul 04 - 06:50 PM I hope to be seeing Maggie in Edinburg next week . I will tell her of the continued interest in her music . |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: michaelr Date: 04 Jul 04 - 04:33 PM June Tabor recorded "A Proper Sort of Gardener" on her 1997 CD "Aleyn", and "A Place Called England" on "A Quiet Eye" (2000). Good versions both. Thanks for the info on the songwriter! Cheers, Michael |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Ed. Date: 04 Jul 04 - 03:40 PM Sorry, my link doesn't work. I copied the url, pasted it, previewed it. If you click it, you get commercial nonsense. Exactly what Maggie meant, I think.... |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Ed. Date: 04 Jul 04 - 03:35 PM I think that countess richard, is right. As this piece shows, 'Disco Dave' was also important in the protest |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: The Borchester Echo Date: 04 Jul 04 - 03:17 PM Daniel, IIRC, was otherwise known as Swampy who became so celebrated at the time that he got invited onto Have I Got News For You. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Jul 04 - 02:17 PM I think Meeta is probably Robb Johnson's wife , based on Maggie being an old friend of Robb,s and playing bass in the R J Band back in the bad old days . Dave and Daniel could just be a couple of the people who were involved in the M3 protest , when they had all sorts of Tunnels they were hiding in . |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Willa Date: 04 Jul 04 - 11:35 AM Seaking beat me to it. Two beautiful songs, and I too assumed the Mr Harding in 'A Place called England' to be the one mentioned in 'A Proper Sort of Garden'. I'm not sure that Meeta, Eileen, Dave and Daniel are any particular people, but it would be interesting to know. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Sooz Date: 04 Jul 04 - 11:28 AM Oops sorry! BTW I'd like to know who Dave and Daniel are as well. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Seaking Date: 04 Jul 04 - 10:52 AM Minor correction to lyrics by Sooz ( missed third line) Once upon a time I found a garden Picked the brightest things that I could see An apron full of Mr Harding's flowers I didn't know that he was watching me Straight away my mother ran to tell him Wondering what he would say or do Mr Harding smiled and said "She's just a little child I knew that she'd be picking them for you" |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 04 Jul 04 - 10:22 AM Thanks everyone! This is such agood song, it is good to be able to understand who everyone is in it. Thinking about it, who are Dave and Daniel? |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Leadfingers Date: 04 Jul 04 - 09:39 AM Maggie is one of the most UNDER rated singer/songwriters in UK . Mr Hardings Garden is just ONE of many superb songs she has written . |
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Subject: Lyr Add: A PLACE CALLED ENGLAND (Maggie Holland) From: Sooz Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:45 AM A PLACE CALLED ENGLAND (On Maggie's album "Getting There") I rode out on a bright May morning like a hero in a song Looking for a place called England trying to find where I belong Couldn't find the old flood meadow or the house that I once knew No trace of the little river or the garden where I grew I saw town and I saw country motorway and sink estate Rich man in his rolling acres poor man still outside the gate Retail park and Burger kingdom prairie field and factory farm Run by men who think that England's only a place to park their car But as the train pulled from the station through the wastelands of despair From the corner of my eye a brightness filled the filthy air Someone's sown a patch of sunflowers though the soil is sooty black Marigolds and a few tomatoes right beside the railway track Down behind the terraced houses in between the concrete towers Compost heaps and scarlet runners secret gardens full of flowers Meeta grows her scented roses right beneath the big jets' path Bid a fortune for her garden Eileen turns away and laughs Rise up George and wake up Arthur time to rouse out from your sleep Deck the horse with sea green ribbons drag the old sword from the deep Hold the line for Dave and Daniel as they tunnel through the clay While the oak in all its glory soaks up sun for one more day come all you at home with freedom whatever the land that gave you birth There's room for you both root and branch as long as you love the English earth Room for vole and room for orchid room for all to grow and thrive Just less room for the fat landowner on his arse in his fourwheel drive For England is not flag or Empire it is not money and it is not blood It's limestone gorge and granite fell it's Wealden clay and Severn mud It's blackbird singing from the may tree lark ascending through the scales It's robin watching from your spade and English earth beneath your nails So here's two cheers for a place called England sore abused but not yet dead A Mr Harding sort of England hanging in there by a thread Here's two cheers for the crazy diggers now their hour shall come around We shall plant the seed they saved as common wealth and common ground |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Seaking Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:39 AM The song about Mr Harding is called 'A proper sort of Gardener' and is on Maggie's 'Down to the Bone Album'. According to the sleeve notes Mr Harding's garden was in Alton, Hants on a site which is now a Bass beer factory. I havn't heard 'A place called England' but listening to 'Proper sort of Garden' would probably best explain the 'A Mr Harding sort of England' line. Chris |
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Subject: Lyr Add: A PROPER SORT OF GARDENER (Maggie Holland From: Sooz Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:37 AM The original song is "A proper sort of gardener". Mr Harding was an old gentleman that Maggie knew in her own childhood in Hampshire. If you read the words, you will realise what she means by "A Mr Harding sort of England" A PROPER SORT OF GARDENER Once upon a time I found a garden Picked the brightest things that I could see I didn't know that he was watching me Straight away my mother ran to tell him Wondering what he would say or do Mr Harding smiled and said "She's just a little child I knew that she'd be picking them for you" By the fire my dad would tell me stories One of them concerned a garden too Where the lion and the lamb lay down together And every lovely fruit and flower grew The Gardener sent his children in to play there Rejoicing in the brightness of the day But when they went exploring and took a fruit to taste He cursed them both and sent them on their way Even then I realised in my childish mind That he wasn't a proper gardener of the Mr Harding kind Mr Harding's garden was all taken By lesser men with concrete in their minds Factory chimneys grew instead of daisies No butterflies from that assembly line My mother faded faster than a flower Dad sat in the darkness and cried Mr Harding moves a little slower than before But still he tends the grave where they both lie Wherever it is they've gone to I hope that they will find A proper sort of garden of the Mr Harding kind The foolish woman sometimes feels despairing and thinks it seems so very hard to find The child tries to plant a little everywhere she goes that special love of the Mr Harding kind Some day when I'm older maybe I will find That I've grown into a gardener of the Mr Harding kind |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: breezy Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:28 AM o k mouse you win. How are you and MCP? Sorry to hear bout the loss of pet. |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: breezy Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:27 AM A gardner from her personal life I think. See her song 'Hr Harding's garden' I think thats the title definitely not the one you are thinking of by a long shot |
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Subject: RE: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Zany Mouse Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:24 AM There is a very beautiful song about a garden "... of the Mr Harding kind ...". Could it be related in some way? Rhiannon |
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Subject: A Mr. Harding sort of England . . ? From: Stu Date: 04 Jul 04 - 07:22 AM In Maggie Hollands superb "A Place Called England" the lyric goes: "A Mr.Harding sort of England/Hanging in there by a thread" Who is Mr.Harding, anmd what does he represent? It could be Mike, of course, but has anyone got any idea? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Words for 'A place called England' From: John J Date: 30 Jul 00 - 04:50 PM Thanks for the offer of help Aux, but Duart beat you to it! Thanks both very much for your help, I'll be pleased to return the favour if I can! Thanks to both of you once again. John |
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Subject: Lyr Add: A PLACE CALLED ENGLAND (from June Tabor) From: duart Date: 30 Jul 00 - 08:22 AM It's on June Tabor's latest CD and it's a beauty. A PLACE CALLED ENGLAND (Maggie Holland) I rode out on a bright May morning, like a hero in a song, Looking for a place called England, trying to find where I belong. Couldn't find the old flood meadow or the house that I once knew, No trace of the little river or the garden where I grew.
I saw town and I saw country, motorway and sink estate,
But as the train pulled from the station, through the wastelands of despair,
Down behind the terraced houses, in between the concrete towers,
Rise up, George, and wake up, Arthur. Time to rise out from your sleep.
Come all you at home with freedom, whatever the land that gave you birth.
For England is not flag or Empire. It is not money and it is not blood.
So, here's two cheers for a place called England, sore abused but not yet dead.
A great, great song. Glad I could help. Duart |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Words for 'A place called England' From: GUEST,Auxiris Date: 29 Jul 00 - 02:01 AM Hello. . . if this helps at all, the song "A Place Called England" was written by Maggie Holland (didn't know June Tabor had recorded it). I've got it on a CD issued by FRoots magazine and if necessary can try to copy out the lyrics, that is if no one beats me to it. cheers, Aux |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Words for 'A place called England' From: John J Date: 28 Jul 00 - 07:41 AM Hiya Patrish, I found the Green Linnet site and found June Tabor's album 'A Quiet Eye' with 'A place called England' on it. But still no words for it! I'll keep looking. Thanks, John |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Words for 'A place called England' From: John J Date: 27 Jul 00 - 08:44 AM I don't think the clicky thing worked (i've not sussed them properly yet. I'll try the greenlinnet thingy. Ta loads, John |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Words for 'A place called England' From: Patrish(inactive) Date: 27 Jul 00 - 06:54 AM Couldn't find the words but here is a link to an audio file This might be a link: click here
or if it is not this is below
http://www.greenlinnet.com/audio/mp3.htm
This might be my first clicky thing
hopefully
Link fixed. You forgot the words "click here" or some equivalent word(s) to click on. --JoeClone, 21-Oct-02.
Woops! Even with my change, it still doesn't work. Apparently the URL just isn't a valid one. --JoeClone, 21-Oct-02. |
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Subject: Words for 'A place called England' From: John J Date: 27 Jul 00 - 06:14 AM Can anybody help. June Tabor sings this wonderful song: 'A place called England', but I can't find the words anywhere. Help anyone please. Thanks loads, John |
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