PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:34 AM

"No, but you're being moronic!"

Irony - The mildly sarcastic use of words to imply the opposite of what they normally mean. Congratulations Martin, you've understood the meaning of irony at last!!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: rhoda horse
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:32 AM

What a ridiculous state this thread has got into.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:31 AM

we understand irony - best stuff to make banjos out of

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:25 AM

To be serious for a change, the banjo is not my cup of tea. However, the banjo playing on the first Steeleye Span album coutesy of Prior, Hart and Terry Woods, I reckon, is very nice indeed - I'm sure that the banjo afficionados would be happy to point out some more fine playing to ignorant folkies such as me. I understand banjo players getting sensitive about the derision hurled at them. It's kind of sad that we resort to being so jaundiced about our own loves and hates. There is beauty in music to be sought for, irrespective of instrument, artist or genre.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:24 AM

Yes, there are a lot of anti-banjo comments about, but other instruments also get slammed too. But a banjo in the hands of a tasteless person is indeed a dangerous thing. Banjos don't kill music, banjo players kill music. But why don't guitars fall victim to the same criticisms. I wonder why do guitars seem to get a pass?

Taking my cue from certain politicians leaders and the other guest Sir jOhn from Hull, I will act as if there isn't enough rancor already and ask a few questions:
1. Why does learning two cords make you a guitar player? Why do so many guitar players think that everyone wants to hear these two cord forms even if it means placing the capo over the bridge?
2. Why does learning one augmented guitar cord automatically make you a singer-songwriter?
3. When they learn that it is possible to play a melody on a guitar, why do guitar players assume that they absolutely must do it?
4. Why do flat-picking guitar players feel that any quiet spot must be filled with a descending scale played on the bass string?
5. Why does the additional of another rhythm guitar player increase the need for a percussion player to set the rhythm?
6. Why is that when guitar players finally decide that there are too many guitars going at once, it is always one that knows the tune being played that drops out?

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:24 AM

guest, music lover

No, but you're being moronic!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Dave Bryant
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:23 AM

Could we have another Mudcat category - like the BS one - especially for Banjo-related threads - preferably on a different server !

Just to prevent anyone of a nervous disposition going into it by accident, it should be password protected - minimun pw length 36 character - pw expiry 35 mins.

:-)

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:22 AM

Art, no I went to high school in the rich north suburbs, but did go and graduate from Columbia College 69-72 when it was truly a cool, alternative hippie school and it was one of the only places you could get a copy of the Chicago Reader.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Moses
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:21 AM

My daughter played in a youth orchestra. She tells me it was always the viola players who came in for stick. Seems we gotta have someone to pick on and Banjo players are big enough to take it!

They (mostly) don't sulk and their music just gets up and shakes off any bad feelings. Forget the valium - if you want cheering up, listen to the banjo for half an hour,(more jokes on the way I expect). It's the only instrument guaranteed to lift my spirits.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,music lover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:21 AM

"Fact of the matter, I do take the banjo seriously."

Are you being ironic?

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:19 AM

Rhoda Horse (clever name!) said, in part:

No tone, sustain, subtlety.



Clearly Rhoda has not listened to the right performances.

As to sustain, it's not particularly necessary. Harpsichords have little sustain, for instance. That hardly makes them "shite". The point is that a musical instrument must be used with judgment, for music which needs the aural qualities of the instrument.

As to subtlety, I recommend that you listen with a careful and hopefully unprejudiced ear to Michael Miles' CD, American Bach. Half of it is Miles playing (in magnificent fashion) three Bach suites originally for unaccompanied cello. Wonderful! The music, originally for cello, with lots of sustain, translates, in Miles's arrangement, to a greate piece. And remember that Bach himself was very free to arrange his work for various instruments foreign to the instrument originally written for. And that included lute, which tends to have a fairly dry tone and relatively little sustain.

The other half of American Bach is Miles's composition, Suite for the Americas. Observing that Bach's suites were sets of contemporary dances, Miles sets out to do a similar thing for the Western Hemisphere (and thus the title "American Bach"). With wonderful compositional judgment and formidable musical technique, using dance forms like the tango, guaracha, and others, he succeeds in presenting a suite which keeps me listening for hours.

Now, if you hear "shite music" which happens to include banjo, I strongly suggest that it's the music which is shite, not the instrument.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM

Actually, I am probably getting you way too uncomfortable with my blunt truthfullness.

Fact of the matter, I do take the banjo seriously. I take the music that I play which is mostly bluegrass seriously.

when Art started this thread, I was glad to see it. There are some things that need to be said.

Hey Ben dover. I must have got to you. first of all, this british expression, "spat your dummy out" is slang I am sure hardly anyone here has a clue what you are talking about, including me. You should stick to your hobby that you always claim to be doing. the trouble is that you and your hobby namesake have made you cross-eyed already and not thinking straight in more ways than one. Watch out for that broomstick. Many here know that I do not live in a "no humor zone."

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM

Blackcatter - ask any Brit what their culture is and you'll more than likely get a blank stare. Most Brits eat McDonalds burgers, drink Starbucks coffee, and wear baseball caps. Thanks for exporting American culture. We'd be lost without you (more irony.)

Anyway, back to banjos, a wonderful instrument played only by those who marry their own sisters (more irony - honest, and just to prove it here's a happy smiley :-))

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,banjo betty
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:14 AM

to all those banjo lovers I say thank you, from the heart of my bottom.

banjo betty

another banjo lover

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,Franz S.
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:13 AM

Having recently emerged from 45 years as a closet banjo player, I'm having a wonderful time. I started with the banjo because my hero Pete played one and my local friends (Mel Lyman and Ron Brentano)were willing to help me get started. And besides, EVERYONE was playing a guitar. Banjos can be played softly, and I like them that way. They go well with fiddles, and a fiddle and a banjo can keep people dancing all night. They make really neat sounds. I look forward to another 45 years with mine.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:09 AM

Martin,

I am sorry I put you in my list of malicious thugs and dictators and heinous fiends in the thread about The Home Secretary And Folk Music. Your comments here, and your kind mention of moi, shows me how wrong I can be even when prvious actions by verbal sparring adversaries, with their previously displayed lack of taste in matters musical, might have made me a bit premature in my stridency. It is now clear(er) to me that you at least finished High School---but probably in the inferior Chicago public schools system of the 1950s---where I also, sadly, spent 4 useless years, except for one teacher, before discovering a drugged up Bob Gibson and the masmerizing night club folk music scene in that good city.

Please accept my heartfelt whatever.

Art

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: rhoda horse
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:08 AM

And he mispelt "humour" He needs a happy pill.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:06 AM

British humo(u)r is apprciated by plenty of Americans. What is not appreciated is what some British consider the ironic twist of picking on things that they like. Since we don't know a particular person from Adam and have no idea if they like or dislike banjos, how in the hell are we supposed to know what they're really saying?

Some humor is best left off discussion boards.


I suppose that we could just not take seriously anything the British say. For many Americans, British culture is rather silly anyway.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,music lover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:05 AM

"Your joking about this is another reason why British humor is not understood and hardly appreciated in America."

Lighten up dude. You're getting like way too heavy.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Pete_Standing
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:04 AM

Q. Why do so many non-banjo players apparently feel so insecure that they have to spend so much of their time knocking banjos?

A. Because sometimes it gets boring poking fun at melodeons and bodhrans!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Ben Dover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 11:02 AM

Oh dear, MG has spat his dummy out. A humour free zone I expect.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:57 AM

guest, music lover

Your joking about this is another reason why British humor is not understood and hardly appreciated in America.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Ben Dover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:56 AM

Because they are awful.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:56 AM

GUEST (of 10:27 a.m) said, in part:

GOD created the banjo and HIMSELF decreed 'Thou shalt not have graven images'- it couldn't be worshiped

Ah, but an image is a visual representation of something which exists, either in reality or imagination.

A banjo is not an image of anything, but an object in its own right. Therefore we can go ahead and worship it all we want.

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Brian Hoskin
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:54 AM

I'm a banjo player and I've never felt the need to denigrate anyone else's instrument. Why do so many non-banjo players apparently feel so insecure that they have to spend so much of their time knocking banjos?

Brian

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Cap't Bob
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:53 AM

I can vividly remember the first time I heard a banjo. The year was 1941, I was eight years old and we were on a family vacation (I remember the year because the war broke out during our trip). Our first stop was at Renfro Valley, Ky. where we attended the famous Renfro Valley Barn Dance. I was elated by the sound of the music and especially the ringing sound of the 5 string banjo's. I knew at the time that one day I would have such a wonderful instrument. It turned out to be 22 years later and I am still thrilled by the sound of the banjo.

After a few years of frustration trying to keep the Kay in tune I finally ended up with a Vega 5 string (extra long neck) and a Vega tenor. I enjoy all styles of banjo picking but especially like the clawhammer sound.

I've spent many hours listening to your wonderful picking Art and even the jokes aren't all that bad. "lock moth nesters" hee, hee.

Cap't Bob

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: sian, west wales
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:50 AM

Well, I'd like to see all the primary schools over here, which invest in huge stocks of classical guitars to teach the kiddies guitar, invest in banjos instead. I think it's pathetic to see the end-of-year concerts with these little 7 year olds plunking away on the one string (high E) because their wee fingers can't reach anywhere else when they could be flailing away on a banjo and having a great old time.

Banjos Rule.

sian

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,music lover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:49 AM

"I have also noticed negative banjo threads and comments here. It seems much of it comes from the Brits and not as much from Americans."


We're joking. When will you Americans understand irony?

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:48 AM

A king amongst instruments!
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Blackcatter
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:48 AM

I know I look forward to hearing one on occasion. A good friend known as "Fred the (Sweeny) Banjo Player" plays with us regularly, but we can't get him to allow us to turn up the volume on the sound system for his banjo.

Imagine, a self-conscious banjo player. . .


Somebody want to post a brief history of the banjo?

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: rhoda horse
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:46 AM

They are shite and you know it. No tone, sustain, subtlety. In

short they are obsolete. The world has moved on from these irritating

noisy frying pans.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:46 AM

O---'-::
Nuff Said?
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:42 AM

Gosh, this thread is growing rapidly! I started to reply to Art's plea, then changed my mind; then I read that other thread, and decide I should reply after all: only to find half a dozen folks had beaten me to it already. When I did respond (just after the Hon Lord jnHo of Hlu), I found even more folks had jumped in.

Art and Martin: if we Brits take the mickey out of the banjo, it's only because we love it and consider it our own (like the British Empire).

Steve "Flying Fingers" Parkes

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:42 AM

British rubbish? Didn't Billy Connolly play banjo in a duo named the Humblebums? I rest your case... (even if the other half was Gerry Rafferty!)

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:39 AM

Well said Martin Gibson.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:37 AM

I second the welcoming of banjos at Market Rasen Folk Club.

I have never been to Market Rasen and have no plans ever to visit.

The two preceding sentences may or may not be connected.

wr.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:37 AM

Towards the end of the 19th century, the banjo (re)crossed the Atlantic, to land on England's shores. In a process that eerily foreshadowed the British Skiffle movement of over half a century later, the Brits took the banjo to their hearts and treated it like, well, a musical instrument. They used it for popular songs, minstrel songs, traditional songs, music-hall songs -- and classical music. Even the sainted Pete Seeger mentions having heard Offenbach's Can-can played on the banjo. It may have been rebbish, but, by golly! it was British rebbish (except for the Can-can, which was French -- or German -- rebbish).

The banjo: bringer of international entente!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Once Famous
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM

I love playing and listening to the banjo.

I have also noticed negative banjo threads and comments here. It seems much of it comes from the Brits and not as much from Americans.

I have loved the banjo since I first heard it played by Dave Guard of the Kingston Trio on the MTA song. It is a well known fact that this song turned on a whole generation of American youth to the banjo.

At one time, banjos were an integral part of folk music, played by such well known acts as the aforementioned Kingston Trio, The Weavers, The Limelighters, Bob Gibson, Pete seeger and others. I believe that the ones who knock the banjo, more than likely are navel-gazing singer-songwriters, who have no idea how to interact with other musicians. I know this type. They are so full of themselves and their whiny lyrics and protests of so many things that they just can't relate to the reason why much so called folk music is ridiculed. These types might just feel threatened by the banjo. It's too much of a good time for them, and, seeing that the banjo works so well in an ensemble situation and they know that they can't.

So, Art. I'm with you. The banjo is a great American Instrument. The only Irish group that I would ever consider listening to was the Clancy Brothers because of Tommy Makem's banjo.

The world has changed. Folkies dissing banjos is a good reason for dissing folkies.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,music lover
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM

I may not agree with what you play, But I'll defend your right to play it.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:35 AM

...even when it's played badly...

Er, how would you know! *grinning fiendishly*

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Rasener
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:32 AM

Anybody that can play the Banjo, would be welcome at Market Rasen Folk Club. I like the banjo very much.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,Sir jOhn from Hull taxi driver
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:29 AM

binjos ar rebbish

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:29 AM

Well now, one must separate teasing of banjo players from denigrating banjos, surely!

The banjo is just one of those lovely instruments that always make an audience smile - even when it's played badly!!!

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:27 AM

Mankind either worships or ridicules that which creates awe within him - since GOD created the banjo and HIMSELF decreed 'Thou shalt not have graven images'- it couldn't be worshiped - therefore...

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: Bert
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:26 AM

Well I'll give it a vote. Even though I can't play one I just love the sound.

That will not, though, stop me from teasing banjo players.

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: el ted
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:24 AM

Good man! I would love to hear Brandenburg Concerto No6 played by an orchestra of 30 or more banjos. What could be better? Who needs harpsichords, violins, woodwind etc, when you could have the plink, plunk plink of banjos en masse?

Subject: RE: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: JedMarum
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:21 AM

As my good friend from Boston, Johnny May put it; "Mankind has invented a lot of wonderful instruments, but God created the banjo!"

Subject: PLEASE, defend BANJOS !!!
From: GUEST,Art Thieme
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:16 AM

Banjos have been under attack in so many threads at Mudcat that it's hard to belive. Here, then, is a place where those of us who love the instrument like it was our mistress or our master can come to it's defense.

PLEASE !!!

Art Thieme

---

I sympathize and all, Art - but this thread has 109 messages and really doesn't have music information. Guess it's time for it to go down to the bottom of the Forum Menu.
-Joe Offer-