BS: The thing about fascism...

Subject: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 09:19 PM

Fascism- n. 1. A philosophy or system of government that advocates or excercises a dictatorship of the extreme right, typically through the merging of state and business leadership, together with an ideology of belligerant nationalism.
American Heritage, 1969 Edition

It seems to me, that one of the most important aspects of fascism is that it's adherants are oblivious to any objective assessment of their own form of government.

Free Speach anyone?
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 09:51 PM

Now, now, ttr...

...you know how sensitive the resident fascists can get...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Amos
Date: 09 Jul 04 - 10:31 PM

That is the nature of the beast. Once you start acting out that kind of psychosis, self-inspection is a luxury you cannot afford. People like that do not stand up and say they were wrong about something. It would be too earth -shattering.


A

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 12:01 AM

Thomas - you have stated a premise - or hypopthesis - via a dictitionary ..... is this YOUR view ????

PLEASE present an essay, (pro/con) for any master debater .... it is an easy jingoistic sort of exercise -

the merging of state and business leadership

Let the MCworld see your defence - argument - or cowering timidity.

Sincerely,

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: mack/misophist
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 12:09 AM

In my history classes they focused on a special relationship between the government and the military. Business always wants a special relationship with the government.

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Thomas the Rhymer
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 01:02 AM

GUEST - PM Date: 10 Jul 04 - 12:01 AM ... getting a little hot uner the collar, again?

I copied the definition out of the dictionary. It is publicly considered to be a definition, neither a premise nor an hypothesis... exactly...

As to your deliteful referrence to towering dimicity, I can only say... boo!

Master debater? Oh My... a fine one to talk, you are...

My opinion is expressed in earnest in the above post. "It seems to me, that one of the most important aspects of fascism is that it's adherants are oblivious to any objective assessment of their own form of government."

To elaborate... in my opinion, an open and democratic exchange of opinions is abhorent to fascism. As the 9/11 commission has disclosed, no tangible connection between Iraq and Al Qiada had been found... and the CIA said as much... before the invasion. Yet the US government remains secretive and aloof to democratic process. Therefore, the "belligerant nationalism" that is embodied by our military approach to 'nation building' in Iraq, is based on a 'not entirely true' premise. Be that as it may, one thing is certain... The 'far right' consolidated it's power, and has enjoyed a virtually unlimmited domination of the basis for freedom in the United States... the press. This is an element necessary for the establishment, and maintenance... of fascism.

Cheerio!
ttr

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: freda underhill
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 04:47 AM

getting stuck into people, vilifying or humiliating them - is a particulary fascist sort of thing to do, working on a campaign to publicly discredit them. the personal is political.

democracy starts with letting people be. intolerance is the first step to arrogance.

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: CarolC
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 08:23 AM

In my history classes they focused on a special relationship between the government and the military. Business always wants a special relationship with the government.

And we've got all three. The military secures areas that are of strategic importance to Business at the command of the government, which has the added benefit of further enriching the military-industrial complex. What's the name for that kind of circle fuck? A daisy chain?

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Bobert
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 08:36 AM

Well, lets not forget that it was the "industrialists" that Hitler knew he had to bring into the fold in order to have a successful fascist movement...

Yeah, we can let this thread evolve into a serious discussion on fascism but I thing it's been done, however, as so many of the dascist elements permiate American societry today, it might be worth revisting.

Like I've said in the past, facism is bad enough but those who get caught up in it *not knowingly* is even worse. The best way to avoid it is to have a universally educated population, which the United States can't claim.

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 08:39 AM

The crucial thing about fascism is that it's about power and style, not "politics".

On a left-right spectrum what can reasonably be termed fascism can crop up at various places, not just the extreme right. In fact, if anything, insofar as it belongs on that spectrum, it's more likely to have its centre of gravity somewhere round the centre.

It's a mistake to see the use of clumsy repression as the essential element in fascism - in modern society, with state of the art technology, it is increasingly possible to exercise total control, far exceeding anything which traditional dictatorships ever had, without needing to resort to those methods. Of course, they are always there to be used when required, and are so used.

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 09:13 AM

Hitler invented the banjo

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 10:53 AM

But failed to market it effectively...

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Amos
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 10:55 AM

You don't suppose it was ein secret geweapon, do you?

A

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 11:04 AM

Back to fascism. :-) I think it can manifest on either the far right or the far left. In either case it becomes more and more difficult (or dangerous) for people to publicly espouse opinions at variance with the ruling system. The media is either directly controlled...or subtly controlled...or made to fall into line through financial inducements. People who do not agree with the government's policies are accused of being disloyal or unpatriotic. Repressive laws are strengthened and civil liberties are curtailed. The public is encouraged to fear some "enemy" (internal or external or both) in a hysterical fashion, and to worship the military. Military solutions are proposed as the ultimate way to solve all really serious problems (while most of those problems have in fact been caused by the military aggressiveness of the fascist state in the first place). As soon as one official enemy is eliminated (or becomes unavailable for some reason) another is created...through a powerful propaganda program launched by the national media.

And so it goes.

Such governments eventually bring about their own demise. The question is, how soon? And how much damage will they cause in the meantime?

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Once Famous
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM

No, back to sillininess.

What famous fascist got a face lift?

A)   Roseanne Barr
B)   Elizabeth Taylor
C)   Mussolini
D)   Bert Parks for the last year he hosted Miss America
E)   Col. Bleep from zero zero island

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: Little Hawk
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 01:17 PM

Damn. That's a tough one, Martin. I don't know, but I am betting on Bert Parks. Still, I have a sneaking feeling it might be Roseanne Barr. This is really driving me nuts...

Mussolini got a lift, but it wasn't a facelift.

Subject: RE: BS: The thing about fascism...
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Jul 04 - 03:44 PM

Far right or far left, or just about anywhere in between.