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Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song

DigiTrad:
JOHN CHINAMAN, MY JO
THE CHINEE BUMBOATMAN


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GUEST,BlackAcornUK 15 May 24 - 06:40 AM
GUEST,.gargoyle 14 May 24 - 10:36 PM
Joe Offer 14 May 24 - 09:39 PM
GUEST,BlackAcornUK 14 May 24 - 06:57 PM
GUEST,Samantha R 11 May 24 - 10:57 PM
Steve Gardham 03 Dec 21 - 01:17 PM
GUEST,Dale Ible from Forbes 03 Dec 21 - 08:40 AM
rich-joy 09 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM
BrooklynJay 08 Jan 21 - 09:12 PM
GUEST,Grand master cho 08 Jan 21 - 08:42 PM
Joe Offer 06 Apr 13 - 04:07 AM
GUEST,Zelda 05 Apr 13 - 10:37 PM
GUEST,Sonya 03 Feb 12 - 04:44 AM
GUEST,josepp 15 Nov 11 - 10:48 PM
Joe Offer 15 Nov 11 - 08:07 PM
GUEST,josepp 15 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM
GUEST,Stephen 15 Nov 11 - 04:21 PM
GUEST,Faz 15 Nov 11 - 02:56 AM
GUEST,Paul 16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM
GUEST,nige & marge 10 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM
Jim Dixon 15 Apr 11 - 01:26 PM
GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1 14 Apr 11 - 12:56 AM
GUEST,J. Weiler 27 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM
GUEST 11 Feb 10 - 03:11 AM
GUEST,Sue Hen 26 Aug 09 - 07:08 AM
GUEST,Pinner7 25 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM
GUEST,Peace 07 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM
Joe Offer 07 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM
Peace 07 Apr 09 - 08:05 PM
GUEST,A proud Asian American 07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM
GUEST,Stephen 20 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM
GUEST,Dave F 20 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM
GUEST,munshi 05 Nov 08 - 12:45 AM
Azizi 04 Jul 08 - 08:55 PM
GUEST,Philip Barton 25 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM
GUEST,Steve Gardham 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM
Jack Blandiver 05 May 08 - 04:07 AM
GUEST,tony 05 May 08 - 12:30 AM
Azizi 25 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM
Cluin 25 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM
GUEST 25 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM
GUEST 25 Jan 07 - 06:49 PM
Azizi 30 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM
SINSULL 29 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 29 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM
GUEST,"dumpling "Norfolk. 29 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM
GUEST,.gargoyle 18 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM
Q (Frank Staplin) 26 Jul 04 - 01:37 PM
GUEST 26 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM
GUEST,weerover 26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM
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Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 15 May 24 - 06:40 AM

This is a pretty grim thread. That last post doesn't even seem relevant to the 'song'. It just seems like an excuse to share a racist 'joke'.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 14 May 24 - 10:36 PM

On the same thread - circa 1960 - West Coast USA.

woman is having a tryst in bedroom.
Husband comes home.
Woman shuts China man in the closet so fast his balls are hanging out.
Husband asks, "What are these?"
Wife replies, "Chinese bell chimes."
Husband kicks them once, twice, three times.
And the third time ... from the closet ... comes the high pitched cry of:
Ding Dong DAMMIT!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

The sins of our youth roll on today.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 14 May 24 - 09:39 PM

I'd agree with you, Black Acorn. I think that here in the US, most of that particular type of racism is gone. But then again, there are times that I wonder. When COVID-19 was rampant, there was a bit of an upsurge of hatred against all Asian people, not only Chinese - but it died down fairly quickly.
We decided not to suppress these songs at Mudcat. Although most of us hate them, they are one of the few remaining examples of the "folk process."

Joe Offer


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Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,BlackAcornUK
Date: 14 May 24 - 06:57 PM

This utter racist bilge was also in circulation in my school in the 80s. I hope to high heaven that it has passed out of currency now.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Samantha R
Date: 11 May 24 - 10:57 PM

In the mid-1980s in New Zealand, my grandfather bought me and my two siblings ukuleles and taught us the following short ditty whilst strumming along:

Ching chong Chinaman,
All very sad
All his cabbagies
All gone bad.

I don't remember any other verses. My parents weren't pleased at all with the lyrics and told us not to sing them at primary school and so we didn't. My grandfather was born in 1923 in central NZ and had learnt that ditty as a small child.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 01:17 PM

Whilst only racists would want to glorify such material, we should be very wary of eradicating all reference to it as some seem to be suggesting. Eradicating all mention of Nazi atrocities or the worst aspects of colonialism do us no favours and whilst these are on a different level we need to remember them all for similar reasons, mainly so they don't happen again.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Dale Ible from Forbes
Date: 03 Dec 21 - 08:40 AM

RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
My Grandmother was from England, and came over to Australia on a Ship that was later used in the Gallipoli Landings.
She was a Young Girl back then, and learned this song in the midst of
MANY Chinese Workers and Gold Diggers in the middle of NSW.
A Bush Girl NOW WORRIES.
Never Sung, Seen or Meant as Rasist by herself or her any of the People that worked or visited or lived around her Family Property.
An many of those people were of Chinese and Indian Cultures.
I ref to the recording of Dan W. Quinn "Chin Chin Chinaman", a song from the old play "The Geisha" of 1898 of "Berliner disc" records.
Comeon Folk, A KIDS RHYME from the Late 1800s to Early 1900s can only be seen as being Racist by people with an "Axe to Grind".
Lets be a bit more Adult about this type of thing Folks.


Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad
Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad
Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop
Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop

Chinaman he Makey Money All e Lifey Long
Wishy Washy Wishy Washy Wrong
When He Try To Steal A Colar Policee Man He Come
He Get Fine He Five a Dollar
Plenty Much A Sum

Ching Chong Chinaman Very Very Sad
Me Afraid All A Trade Very Very Bad
Now Jack Brokey Broke Makey Shutty Shop
Ching Chong Chinaman Chop Chop Chop


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: rich-joy
Date: 09 Jan 21 - 04:22 AM

re Zelda's post about being looked down upon as a "New Australian" :
My best schoolfriends in the 60s were Dutch migrants :)

However, my great Aunt Annie, (Australian born of English heritage), had TWO legal marriages to Chinese men, in the early 1900s in Western Australia!

This was most definitely not a time or place of "multiculturalism" acceptance and anti-Chinese sentiment was commonly expounded in the Sunday newspaper,
especially accusing the Chinese of depravity "with our young women" in the opium dens. (see TROVE website).

Sadly, she died before I found out about her (still plenty of family secrets!) and also sadly, AFAIK, had no children. I would so love to have met and known her.


R-J


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 09:12 PM

Something that I don't think has been mentioned:

In 1922, actor Lon Chaney starred in a film called Shadows. He was in yellowface, playing a character called Yen Sin.

According to a Chaney biography by Michael F. Blake, Shadows was originally supposed to be titled Ching Ching Chinaman, and sheet music of the song was issued, viewable here. Music was credited to Louis F. Gottschalk, lyrics by Eve Unsell.

Note that while Chaney played Yen Sin, it says on the sheet music cover:

Lon Chaney as Ching Ching Chinaman in the Screen Production "Shadows".


Jay


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Grand master cho
Date: 08 Jan 21 - 08:42 PM

Ching Chong ching Chong got a little ding dong   Ching Chong Ching Chong you vagina is sideways    ,does anyone know a song that goes something like that rember kids singing it when I was like nine or ten!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Apr 13 - 04:07 AM

Thanks for adding a perspective to this song, Zelda. I agree that the song is racist. The trouble is, there was a cuteness and innocence to it, so people kept thinking it was OK to demean Asians this way because of the cuteness of it all.

People keep coming back to these racist anti-Chinese songs because they have happy memories of the songs. I guess that happened with Stephen Foster songs is the early days of the Black civil rights movement. I think the Foster songs have been sorted out pretty well by now. I still sing "Old Black Joe" because I see nothing racist in it, but some people disagree with me.

I didn't learn any "Chinaman" songs growing up in Wisconsin. By the time I moved here to California in 1973, "Chinaman" songs were unacceptable on the West Coast.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Zelda
Date: 05 Apr 13 - 10:37 PM

The one I remember is slightly different. I think we learned it in grade 2 or 3. This is what I remember:

There was an old man
and he came from China;
His name was Chicka Racka Ching Chong Chang
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

His legs were big and his feet were small,
This little man couldn't walk at all
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

Here he comes
And there he goes,
Funny little man with a screwed up nose;
Chicka Racka Ching Chong Char Chicka Roney Alaballa Fatman Oh Kokoney
Icka bye icka bye oh koh koh.

**I think there may have been one or two other verses but don't remember them****
Boy were the songs politically incorrect in those days. And attitudes were a lot more racist. My family had migrated to Australia from Holland, and we were also looked down on. People called us "new australians", or "wogs".


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Sonya
Date: 03 Feb 12 - 04:44 AM

I remember little bits of a song my grandmother taught me about ching chong chinaman working in a laundry with the same tune as the song about the brothel.
Wondering if anyone else knows of this?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 10:48 PM

"Joy Luck Club" had no sympathetic Asian male characters at all. Not one. The white husbands, with one exception, were portrayed as ideal husbands. Then again, I do believe Amy Tan is married to a white man and that may have influenced her thinking. Suppose a white woman marries an Asian man and then writes a story where every single white male character is a complete asshole. Not one has a clue of how to act like a decent human being while the Asian male characters seem more or less well-balanced, disirable husband material. You'd say there was a bit of an agenda there, wouldn't you? If you don't, you should.

When Lucy Liu was cast in that "Charlie's Angels" remake, she demanded that her character's father be a white man. I believe they had cast an Asian man first, but due to her objections, cast John Cleese instead. No explanation is given as to how this obvious full-blooded Asian woman could possibly have a white father. Imagine watching a movie where Uma Thurman's character has a Filippino father without any explanation of how that could possibly be. Certainly, you would wonder about it. But when an Asian woman wants a white man to play her daddy, we don't wonder about that. Why is that?

Then she made this movie or something where several different men propose to her--all of them white. You would think as an Asian woman, one or two Asian men might be among her suitors. No, not Lucy Liu. Imagine, say, Rachel McAdams, doing a movie where every man wining and dining her is black--no white males even make a brief appearance. Would you not find that a wee bit odd?

And we haven't touched on how Liu's minority status exhibiting this behavior is hurtful to others who share that status. Just the behavior by itself is in need of questioning.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 08:07 PM

Josepp, how is it that you think that Amy Tan and Lucy Liu "perpetuate this colonialist crap"? I don't see that in them at all.

-Joe-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 06:53 PM

In America during the coon song era (1890s), there are a number of racist songs directed at Asians. James Powers's 1898 recording "Chin Chin Chinaman" being an example. It's the same words that have been posted here over and over again: "Chin Chin Chinaman velly velly sad, etc." But he intersperses it with chinky gibberish throughout. There's Dan W. Quinn's "Mr. Jappy Jap Jappy" from 1897.

This was the era of the Yellow Peril and things were very bad for Chinese people in America. They lived under no less oppression, brutality and terror than Southern blacks. Robert Louis Stevenson traveled the US at that time and rode the rails. He noted that whites never looked at nor spoke to Chinese people--as though they were invisible--except to occasionally curse at or insult them, never discussed them except to talk shit about them even as they rode upon the very rails many Chinese men laid down often at the cost of their lives. Everywhere the trains went, the way was strewn with the bones and spattered with the blood of the untold thousands of Chinese men who gave their lives and without whom the job could not have been done.

Yet, in this photo taken at the completion of the Transcontinental railroad, one cannot help but notice the complete absence of Chinese workers. That's because they were forcibly removed before the photo was taken. We can't have white people not being the one and only heroes, now can we?

http://www.findingdulcinea.com/docroot/dulcinea/fd_images/news/on-this-day/May/Transcontinental-Railroad-Completed/news/0/image.

While a black man could rise to some level of respectability during that period--a large number of blacks were educated and literate and some as Bert Williams were among the highest paid in their fields--there was no such avenue open to Chinese.

By 1919, D. W. Griffith made the first interracial love movie in America called "Broken Blossoms" concerning the love between a Chinese man and a white woman. Of course, the Chinese man was played by a white man in yellowface (Richard Barthelmess) but even so, it was a daring movie where the white audience is being persuaded to pull for this couple over the whites who try (and eventually succeed) in destroying the relationship. So daring, that Hollywood for decades wouldn't try to repeat it with rare exceptions.

Instead, the white man was paired with the exotic Far Eastern woman in movie after movie for decades. Shocking that Puccini's "Madame Butterfly" was repackaged as "Miss Saigon" and still managed to be a huge attraction as though no time at all had passed between the two productions instead over 80 years. White men have this thing about Far Eastern women killing themselves over them. Not surprisingly, no Westerner has done a thesis on this strange fetish. And I'll believe it was based on a true story when someone can prove to me that "The Last Samurai" is historical instead of another patronizing piece of crap that could have been made 70 years ago judging from all the old stereotypes that were trotted out and shamelessly paraded around.

But then I suppose it's on Asians to reject these types of roles or it won't change. And it's time to silence those Asians who deliberately try to perpetuate this colonialist crap (Amy Tan and Lucy Liu, for example) which any Asian-American should find a complete embarrassment and obstacle to progress. Either that or get used to being Ching Chong Chinaman.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 04:21 PM

No, the lyrics are poor and there is no historical, artistic or aesthetic value in the research


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Faz
Date: 15 Nov 11 - 02:56 AM

Anyone know this or any other verses to it?
    Ching Chung Chinaman
    Apple on a stick
    Ching Chung Chinaman
    Make a fella sick


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Paul
Date: 16 Jul 11 - 02:52 PM

There was a cartoon on the television in the 60's or 70's and someone in there said "chin chong chinaman" anyone know who it was or the cartoon.. seem to think it may have been a dog in it.
Paul


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,nige & marge
Date: 10 Jul 11 - 04:58 PM

This version was sung to me in London in the 1940,s with the
same chorus. But sorry cannot remember it all.
Did anyone help you out?

Marge


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 15 Apr 11 - 01:26 PM

Morwen, I agree with you, and I said so back here, in another thread about a similar song (or maybe a different version of the same song; I don't have the patience to figure it out).


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,MorwenEdhelwen1
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 12:56 AM

I know this thread is old by now, but I wanted to write this. This song and other songs with racial stereotype make me uncomfortable, being Chinese-Australian, although find it interesting reading people's comments and opinions about songs with racial stereotypes.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,J. Weiler
Date: 27 Mar 10 - 09:02 AM

Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong
Me gotta pig tail three miles long
Me velly glad to sing this song
Ching Ching, Ching Ching, Ching Ching Chong


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 10 - 03:11 AM

There lived in china a very old man
his name was chikaraka ching chong man
His head was big but his feet was small
this little man could walk at all

chikaraka ching chong chi chikarony
alaban fat man o ko kony
iki wikki ikki bye oh kokony


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Sue Hen
Date: 26 Aug 09 - 07:08 AM

My gran sang this version to me in the 50s
She was born 1895.
    Chink chink China man had a little shop
    He sold gingerbread, lemonade and pop
    Everyone came to see his little shop
    Chink chink Chinaman
    Chop chop chop

We originate from Ashton under Lyne /Oldham area. Manchester


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Pinner7
Date: 25 Jul 09 - 02:25 PM

I remmber most of the words learned this in school in 6th grade
    Ching loo china baoy went to buy a kite,
    came a gust of wind and blew it out of sight
    ching-a-ling, ching-a-ling said ching loo...
    never mind I don't need a kite???????
this is driving me nuts I was in 6th grade about 60 years ago


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Peace
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:34 PM

I agree, Joe. I cringe, too.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:24 PM

Yeah, I have to admit that I cringe every time I see this thread come up. I thought it came up more often than just 47 times, but I was wrong - it's the thread called Once in China There Lived a Great Man, which has 156 posts. I delete messages that are obviously posted just to cause trouble, but not if they give any appearance of having historic roots. It bothers me that some of the people who stop by to post, are people that really love these songs, and they get nostalgic over them.

We baby boomers did learn such songs from our grandmothers - and they thought the songs were cute. I think that in the 1950's, even grandmothers had an inkling of an idea that such songs were a bit naughty, but I'm sure they didn't see them as hateful or bigoted.

It's an interesting aspect of folklore that it's the "unprintable" things that are oftentimes the purest aspect of folklore, untainted by the niceties of copyrights and royalties and attributions and such. But into the 1950's, there were children's cartoons that expressed what we would consider to be racist attitudes.

No, I wouldn't recommend passing these things on to your grandchildren, but they definitely have folkloric and historical interest.

-Joe Offer, Forum Moderator-


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Peace
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:05 PM

ApAA--I agree with you and Azizi. Every damned time I see this thread title it pisses me off.

Bruce Murdoch


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,A proud Asian American
Date: 07 Apr 09 - 08:01 PM

Why would anyone want to continue a tradition such as this, a tradition that degrades an entire race of people? For what point and purpose? How would you feel if your people were subjected to such vile degradation, disrespect and hatred?

You really should think things through before you decide to pursue a topic.

And anyone who has ever uttered such filthy words for fun and amusement needs to do some serious soul-searching.

I mean come on, Philip Barton, your GRANDMOTHER taught you that song?
And thank you Azizi for being more considerate towards your fellow human being. I understand your basic intent was not to offend but to merely research the roots of a rhyme...but unless you plan on creating something positive out of this, ie shed light on the plight of Asian immigrants in Western society, then keeping alive such hateful words is not the right thing to do.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Stephen
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 11:00 AM

Oh great another thread in the name of 'research' bringing up songs which should have been left behind in the playground long ago.

An analogy that comes to mind is those WW2 re-enactment societies that dress up at weekends in SS uniforms. Purely for historical accuracy of course.

Mudcats policy regarding these threads demean the whole site. The thread title is ugly and so are most of the lyrics in it. Its even been given the dignity of being above the line.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Dave F
Date: 20 Jan 09 - 09:46 AM

I remember a cleaner version of this song from an Alladin pantomime in the mid 1950's. It was sung by Wishee Washee the laundryman and went something like:
    Chinaman he make-ee money all-ee life-ee long
    He do wash-ee wash-ee, sometime he wash-ee wong.
    When he try to steal-ee collar, police-ee man-ee come,
    He get fine-ee five-ee dollar, plenty much sum!

    Chin chin chinaman, velly velly sad,
    High trade, low trade, velly velly bad.
    No-ee joke, broke-ee broke, had to shut-ee shop
    Chin chin chinaman, chop chop chop.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,munshi
Date: 05 Nov 08 - 12:45 AM

thank you all for posting such strange and interesing 'poems'.

of interest to me is oscar asche (australian) who actually went to china in his youth (perhaps 1890s). his musical chu chin chow
made him - and unmade him. (most successful comedy - to
bankrupt.)

azizi - we must not be so upset about the tauting. these rhymes come from history. we are remembering verses that were nasty - but now are probably out of date.

want to point out that in 1900 there were parallel themes: one was racism and british colony. the other was 'orientalism' and selling of asian concepts... which was very popular.

see youtube for the song 'mera naam chin chin choo'.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 04 Jul 08 - 08:55 PM

After learning more about these Chinaman rhymes and also learning about the continued use of the Ching Chong phrase to taunt Asian people, I realize that I need to retract my previous comments to this thread about being interested in collecting these rhymes.

I admit to having been so focused on finding rhyme sources and connections between rhymes that I disregarded or minimized the highly offensive, mocking words in these rhymes. Even if the intent of the person reciting them isn't meant to insult, these rhymes have been and still are being used to insult Asians, and I don't want to be any party to that.

For the record, I'm sorry and for my words and mindset. I sincerely apologize to all those who read my previous comments.

What others do is their decision. I am writing this for me and for the record of this archived thread.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Philip Barton
Date: 25 Jun 08 - 08:28 PM

I was taught this song by my grandmother 57 years ago. The version that she taught me was this.
    Ching Chang Chinaman
    velly velly sad.
    Me aflaid alee trade
    velly velly bad
    Noee joke, stoney bloke, makee shutee shop.
    Ching Chang Chinaman
    Chop, chop, chop.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,Steve Gardham
Date: 05 May 08 - 06:42 PM

Similar version to one posted above.
Hull 1950s street rhyme
    Chinky Chinky Chinaman bought a penny doll,
    Washed it, dressed it, called it Pretty Poll,
    Sent for the doctor, doctor couldn't come,
    Because he had a pimple on his bum, bum, bum.
I may have confused 2 rhymes here. It was along time ago and senility is creeping in.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Jack Blandiver
Date: 05 May 08 - 04:07 AM

A variant of this rhyme was the first piece of Folk Lore I ever collected in the field, or rather the playground, on my first day at Shiremoor Infants School, Northumberland, in September 1966.

My source, as I recall, was classmate Peter Best, who impressed me with delivery of his recitation as much as by its content, in which, by way of a variation on subsequent versions, said Ching Chong got a mouthful of shit.

Needless to say I reported this to my mother when I home later that afternoon, giving her as studied a recitation as my meagre talents were capable of, and for my efforts was rewarded with a mouthful of soap and water.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,tony
Date: 05 May 08 - 12:30 AM

Dad used to chant/sing a chinaman song in the 1940's, some of which included

"This old chinaman he went to sea" -----
and had a chorus of
"Chic chic alora"

does this evoke any memories or additional lines?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 08:11 PM

I started to share a contemporary children's rhyme that is very much like the one Cluin posted when it occurred to me that I had posted that rhyme on a thread like this before - thread.cfm?threadid=89534 Origin of 'Chink-a-boo Man'.
Here's the post that I wrote to that thread on March 11, 2006. Note that within the text of that post I refer to a comment that was posted on that thread by Sinsull as well as a comment that was posted on that thread by GUEST,J C. Those posts are also missing, and there are probably additional comments that are missing.

**

Subject: RE: Origins: Chink a Boo Man
From: Azizi - PM
Date: 11 Mar 06 - 11:59 AM

Sinsull and others,

I am interested in collecting examples of contemporary children's rhymes. I am also interested in documenting -whenever possible-the sources for those rhymes, and what those rhymes mean to the children reciting them.

I would paraphrase GUEST,J C 's comment that "there [may be] a basic difference in intent between the phrases you quote and those deliberately designed to malign and demean a whole group of people".

It appears to me that alot of times children reciting a rhyme don't know or care what the words mean. They are more "in to" the rhythm of the words and the performance activity {handclapping, jumping rope, foot stomping, etc} that goes with the rhyme.

But as to Sinsull's question would I be interested in collecting a rhyme with the words
"Ching Ching Chinamen
Sittin' on a fence
Trying to make a dollar out fifteen cents."

My answer is yes. My goal is to collect & document rhymes for the historical record, and as a means of gathering insight into the world of children. Therefore, some rhymes that I collect don't conform with my moral standards, but that isn't the point.

That said, I try to include commentary along with the rhyme example so that information is preserved about what the rhyme means/meant to the performers of that rhyme. That's why I believe that demographical information {including age, gender, race and.or ethnicity is important.

I also try to add information about the possible source of the rhyme, and the rhyme's possible cultural meaning [i.e. for "Chink Chink Chinaman" that the rhyme teases Chinese people and other people with slanted eyes].

I'm very interested in how children's rhymes change over time and among different groups of people. For example, in 1997 I collected this handclap rhyme from elementary school aged African American girls & boys in Pittsburgh, PA area that is similar to "Chink Chink Chinaman":

"Shimmy Shimmy China
Sittin on a fence
tryin to make a dollar
outta 65 cents.
He missed. He missed.
He missed like this; like this. like this.

-snip-

In this example "Shimmy Shimmy China" is used as a nickname of a boy or man who is sitting on a fence. Even with the use of the name "China", there is no allusion to Chinese people. And certainly no racial teasing is intended or perceived.

All this to say, that we adults have to be careful not to read our issues into kid's creative works.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Cluin
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 07:09 PM

The one I remember was:

Chinky Chinky Chinaman, sitting on a fence
Tried to make a dollar out of sixteen cents



An observation on the industrious spirit of the immigrant who came to a new country to better his life?

Yeah, right...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 07:06 PM

On a slighty different "slant" (no pun intended) there was a record by George Formby, one of his stories about Mr. Woo (the Chinese Laundry man) it's called "Mr Woo's An Air Raid Warden Now"...and with regard to the blackout, it tells us that "If you've got a chink in your window/There'll be another one at your door"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 25 Jan 07 - 06:49 PM

My recollection of this song begins with a verse:
    Do you little children know from where we get the tea?
    It comes all from Chinaland, far across the sea
    Packed in bales of merchandise by little China men
    Sent across the ocean from Sen Yen

    Chin chin Chinaman velly velly sad
    He's aflaid of the tlade velly velly bad
    Tlade bloke stony bloke have to shutee shop
    Chin chin Chinaman, chop, chop, chop


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Azizi
Date: 30 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

Just for the record...

There's a children's rhyme Chitty Chitty Bang Bang/sittin on a fence trying to make a dollar out of 15 {65; 85} cents...

There's also a children's rhyme that begins Shimmy Shimmy China/ I know karate.... That rhyme also has the line "sittin on the fence/trying to make a dollar out of 85 cents..."

SINSULL, I guess inflation can be blamed for the change from 16 cents.

I'm not sure if these two rhymes I referenced have anything to do with Ching Chong Chinaman.

Probably not...


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: SINSULL
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 03:07 PM

I must have had a sheltered childhood. We chanted:
Ching ching Chinaman sittin' on a fence
Trying to make a dollar out of sixteen cents.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 02:34 PM

Could have been a children's play song. Very difficult to find them; collectors mostly ignored those based on racial characteristics.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,"dumpling "Norfolk.
Date: 29 Sep 04 - 12:22 PM

interesting comments---

I'm trying to locate the source of a song which i learnt at my Grandmother's knee back in the 40's ( she was born in the 1880's)
The first line of the lyrics start:

   My name is Ling (ching?) I come from China, ickle lickle lupships you see there.

      Any ideas? I would love to solve this mystery before my memory fails completely!!
      Many thanks. "dumpling"


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 18 Sep 04 - 07:29 PM

Another playground rhyme - circa 1960 - western USA....something along the lines of:
    Charlie Chan was a helluva man
    Lined ten whores up against the wall
    F__cked them, f__cked them, f__cked them all
    F__cked them all till his dick turned red
    Went to the doctor and the doctor said,
    "Sorry, Charlie but your dick is dead."
    "Can't be, can't be, can't be true!"
    "Sorry, Charlie but your balls are too."
Sincerely,
Gargoyle


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 01:37 PM

Guest Adam, thanks for the Edwardian site. Some amusing material!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 10:30 AM

"Add that little extra" sounds extremely modern. Adspeak.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Ching Chong Chinaman Song
From: GUEST,weerover
Date: 26 Jul 04 - 06:03 AM

I'm sure Adam is too modest to mention it, but he sings the Glasgow version above as part of a medley of Glasgow songs on his excellent album "wordswordswords". His Glasgow version of the story of Hamlet on the same is on its own worth the price of the album.

wr.


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