BS: Holidays in the US

Subject: BS: Holidays in the US
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:49 AM

Well I'm afraid it's something I won't be doing again. I planned to make a trip in a hired motor home at the back end of the year, and take in the FSGW if possible. Now I'm informed that I need to specify where I will be stopping every night, and for how long, before I even pick up the van. That sort of takes the serendipity out of touring round, which is what I enjoy about that sort of holiday. I even thought to go the car delivery route as a means of getting around, and seeing more of the US, but I guess that's out now too. I understand the reasons for caution on your part, but I think it's going too far, I hate to think what these regs are doing to the tourist trade over there.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 03:58 AM

This is outrageous!

It's the first I've heard of such draconian measures, but I'm afraid I'm no longer all that surprised.

There was a show with Trevor McDonald over here in the UK with interviews of people stopped by Customs officials when entering the US. The way they were treated was simply horrifying to hear. They were shackled, left in a locked room with others for hours on end with no food, water, or toilet facilties.

I feel that I should apologize for the country of my birth, and if it helps, I do. But it's also one of the reasons I have left there and stayed away for decades at a time. I keep waiting for them all to come to their senses.

DAMN! I'm so mad about this, Giok!

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 08:51 AM

that's ridiculous!

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: artbrooks
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 08:58 AM

First I've heard of such a thing. Is this a US government regulation, or maybe some policy of the van rental company? If the former, would you post the agency and the regulation citation? I'd like to look it up. Either way, its stupid.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: DMcG
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:30 AM

I've just looked at the US Embassy website as a result of this and found this in the FAQ for people who cruise:

======
I am joining a cruise ship in the U.S. which will necessitate me making more than one journey into the U.S. My itinerary requires that I re-enter the U.S. on my way home. What do I do?
You should contact the Embassy before applying for the visa.

======

Put it another way. A cruise costs a couple of thousand dollars. You don't know whether the Embassy will allow you to take it until you get the visa, so you would be unwise to book it first. (I got a big 'VISA REFUSED' stamp in my passport a few decades ago because I hadn't filled in a date on the form. Heaven knows what will happen if they find that in my records these days). Of course, the visa needs you to demonstrate you are going on certain days, which you can't because you've not booked it yet.

Much simpler, all in all, to go somewhere else for a break.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:44 AM

That sounds like nonsense from the rental company. They always want more information than they really need. Even here when U.S. citizens rent a car they want the name of where you're staying. I just give them a hotel name, or say I'm staying with friends, but I don't give them every detail. They want my business so they take what they can get.

Just because you say you're stopping somewhere doesn't mean you're going to be there. I'd guess it's hot air on their part, and if you simply tell them the general area where you expect to reach, but don't give them specifics you'll still be okay. And if you don't keep to your schedule, they won't know--they aren't going to check.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Ellenpoly
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 10:51 AM

That's interesing, SRS, I never remember having to tell anyone where I was going. But then I haven't rented a car in the States for probably 10 years.

Your advice makes sense, but I still think it's none of their G*D D*MN BEESWAX!

..xx..e

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:07 AM

If you have your own car insurance (you should!) and it has a clause in it for driving rental vehicles then you are covered. But they want you to buy their insurance (adding many dollars a day to your rental) because that's where they really make their money. You have to look them in the eye and tell them "I don't want your insurance, and I'll fill the tank before I return it." There's a big penalty for not filling it before returning it unless you agree to let them fill it at the end. Tne penalty rate is always outrageous--like $5 a gallon if the regular price is $1.70. They'll let you check a box where you can return it empty and they'll only charge you $3 a gallon to fill it. Big profit to them if it's a big tank. Do it yourself and save.

I've encountered clerks who have clearly been giving training in customer intimidiation when it comes to selling the insurance, usually taking the form of various levels of rudness when I refused it. Lately they seem resigned to the fact that most car renters know better than to fall for that scam.

I would recommend telling the rental company that the trip isn't scripted, but that you have a general list of places to see and give them a couple. You might soothe their overzealous anxiety with simply one place in the middle where you hope to make a stop. Give them the name of a commercial campground (KOA--Kampgrounds of America--is one that has campgrounds all over. Find a directory and name one of those.) Don't name National Parks if your trip is in a high camping season--if you haven't made reservations by now you likely aren't going to be able to get into the park campground, and the rental folks might not believe that you're really going there.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Maryrrf
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:11 AM

Hey John,
You might still want to consider coming over and just staying in cheap hotels. Outside the big cities you can usually get by very inexpensively. I know some folks who did the motor home thing and it turned out to be expensive by the time they factored in the rental, the gas/petrol, the charge for the campsites, etc. If it is off season, you probably wouldn't have to reserve your hotels in advance and could just rent a small car and head out.   I agree that a requirement like that is ridiculous. The thing that annoys me about such requirements is that a bona fide terrorist would just put down fake answers and do whatever he/she planned to do anyway. Much like the questions they ask you when you check in at the airport about carrying weapons, etc. Like I would tell them if I had wired my shoes with explosives or something????

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Blackcatter
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:16 AM

I can't imagine how anyone will be able to check up on you if you do or don't follow your itinerary. There's nothing set up in the US, with the exception of the borders, to officially check about tourism and business travelers.

If they ask for itenerary, give them one. It's not your fault if you get "stuck" somewhere and have to change your plans.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:17 AM

You might want to try a different rental company, because this sounds like it IS the rental company.

It may be a "we don't want you swiping our property and/or we need to be able to get in touch with you" thing. I'd just give them a plan that's reasonably close to what you want to do. Everybody knows nothing EVER goes according to plan anyway. Or try a different rental company.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jimmyt
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:39 AM

Everytime I travel to the UK the immigration people want to know where I will be staying and for how long. It is just routine stuff. I tell them my first night's city of accomodations, etc I don't make a big deal out of it and I don't think you should either. Come over, have a good time and ignore the silly stuff. My daughter got stopped last summer at Gatwick by immigration when they asked her if she was on holiday, she was actually taking a training course for 2 months at Le Cordon Bleu. THey grilled her about all kinds of stuff for about an hour, but ultimately they were convinced she wasn't going in to England and take a job away from someone. Unfortunately it is a crazy world, and you just have to deal with the BS
.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Rabbi-Sol
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 05:29 PM

The RV rental company that I use in Tuckahoe, N.Y. does not care about your itinerary. The only restrictions are that you can not take the vehicle into Alaska or into Death Valley Natonal Monument during the summer (winter is o.k.). However, I am an American citizen and resident. The regulations may be different for someone coming from overseas who is a citizen of a foreign country, since 9/11. Remember that these vehicles have propane on them and can be turned into a lethal weapon in the wrong hands. SOL ZELLER

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Mudlark
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 09:18 PM

You also might think about renting a regular van and buying yourself a good sleeping bag and small camp stove. I used to do a lot of art fairs out of the back of a Toyota station wagon, when hotels too expensive or not handy. Not sure about the east coast but here in the western US there are lots of rest areas along major highways, huge laybys used by semis as well as tourists. There are usually good toilet facilities, running water, etc. and it's a safe, hassle-free place to stop for the night. (Refrigerated trucks that leave motors running all night can be irritating, but usually there is enough room to keep your distance.)

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Marion
Date: 30 Jul 04 - 11:02 PM

This reminds me: at the Niagara-Buffalo border crossing, in the room where you wait your turn to be interviewed, they've got a newspaper article on the wall. The article explains the new policy of fingerprinting all foreign visitors.

Some brave soul crossed out the article's "2002" date and wrote in "1984".

Marion

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Maryrrf
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 09:27 AM

The only thing about sleeping over at rest stops is that many of them post a 2 hour parking limit. You might get away with spending the night but you might get hassled. It is also possible to park your van and sleep over (discreetly) in Walmart parking lots. They're open all night and you can go in and use the facilities if you need to.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 10:14 AM

Hey John, last October my wife and I rented a 24 ft motorhome from Crestwood RV in Tuckahoe, New York. They picked us up at our hotel in NYC and we toured around Pennsylvania, New Jersey, New York, Maryland, Massachusettes, New Hampshire, Maine, Rhode Island, and Connecticut over the next 3 weeks. We only gave them a vaugue idea of our plans, we stopped whenever and wherever we wanted to, and we had a blast.

We traveled to Independence Hall, Valley Forge, Amish Country, Gettysburg, FSGW Getaway, Washington DC, Sturbridge Village, Salem Witch Museum, Plymouth Plantation, Cape Cod, Pilgrims Monument, New Bedford Whaling Museum, and Mystic Seaport. We constantly were changing our plans due to unforseen road conditions, places we wanted to stay longer (or shorter), and suggestions from fellow travelers of what we should see.

You are correct, this type of holiday is joyful and serendipitous. I can't believe they want you to specify exact dates and locations. My advice is to find another rental company. There are many agencies in the northeastern United States that rent motorhomes. My primary reason for renting one was so I would not have to over plan our trip last fall. Good luck, John. Please let me know if there is anything I can do to help.

Mike

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 31 Jul 04 - 01:31 PM

Thanks Mike, I've been informed that it's immigration who require the travel details, not the RV rtental company.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: PoppaGator
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 12:35 PM

A) Tell immigration anything plausible vis-a-vis itinerary, then go where you want. Who's to know?

B) There's absolutely no need to be "discreet" about sleeping in a Wal-Mart parking lot. Wal-Mart actively *encourages* travelers to do so at any of their locations nationwide, figuring they'll build goodwill and that the weary travelers will buy something in the store before or after sleeping, at least once in a while.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM

Depending on the state, the rules regarding sleeping in rest areas vary greatly. I seem to recall that Utah and Nevada had a 24-hour limit. Others are shorter, but all of them are intended for those who need to sleep before driving further. If you're not safe to drive because you're too tired, they're not going to make you move. I've never been disturbed even when I parked in a short-term space all night.

However, due to the extreme transience of the traffic through a place like that, it isn't the safest place to choose to sleep. Take a hint from a seasoned traveler: If I have to stop at a rest area I park right smack in the middle, up front, right UNDER a streetlight. What you realize pretty quickly is that if you're off at the edge, the streelights are going to shine sideways in the windows and be bright in your eyes. If the light is directly overhead, everyone outside can see your vehicle easily (disuading robbery) but it keeps the light out of your eyes.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: DougR
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 01:17 PM

The poster implies that this is a requirement of the federal government. I doubt it. It may be a requirement of the rental company though I have never heard of such.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 01:23 PM

I recently visited the States and the only thing they wanted at immigration was the address that I was going to. For all they knew I could have been travelling anywhere in the country and there didn't seem to be any check on movement.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 01:30 PM

Is there someone who can clear up this mess. I am hoping to come to the US in 2005 and tour in a hired motorhome..taking in some music on my journey...Folk or Country of course...but will I be able to do this as I can in my own country? (UK) Best wishes, Mike.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jimmyt
Date: 01 Aug 04 - 08:30 PM

Yes Georgian Silver, you will. As I stated previously in this post, when I come to UK they ask me where I will be staying. I give them the first address. Same as when you come here. The USA and the UK have bigger fish to fry than chasing around after motor homes to make sure the folk musicians are where they are supposed to be. This is not Albania. Come over, fill out the red tape paperwork, forget about it and have a good time.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 10:25 AM

I had no trouble at all with US immigration or customs. The visa waiver form requires that you put one destination address on it but after that they do not seem too concerned.

What realy worked well was going via Dublin btw - You can clear both imigration and customs before you get on the plane there! AirLingus was also considerably cheaper than most:)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Metchosin
Date: 02 Aug 04 - 11:34 AM

Regulations such as this may seem ridiculous to some, but this kind of stuff is occuring regularly at Canadian border crossings into the US.

A programme aired on CBC Radio last week, about the difficulty and one story, of many, was noted, particularly that of a Quebec businessman who was refused entry, despite years of travelling back and forth, as his company does business the US.

The fellow was taken aside by US Customs and refused entry because it turned out that 30 years ago, he had been fined $100 for breaking a window and subsequently was deemed to have a criminal record. He had long forgotten about the incident.

He managed to get a pardon from the Canadian government recently, exhonerating him of his misdeed from his youth, but now the US won't recognize the Canadian pardon.

If he wants to personally continue doing business in the US, he must subsequently pay megabucks in the US to obtain a US Pardon as well. If I remember correctly, he now has to get a US pardon for "two crimes", that of the broken window and now, attempting to cross the US border, without noting his long forgotten criminal record.

Welcome to the reality of the new world order.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 10:50 AM

Thanks jimmyt very encouraging. Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: sledge
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 11:04 AM

Had no trouble myself when entering the USA earlier this year via New york, in fact it seemed the slickest and best entry I had ever made, and this was in spite of the fact that my passport has a bucket load of Algerian immigration stamps in it from work.

Cheers and have a good trip

Sledge

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Dead Horse
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 05:45 PM

I havent been to the USA apart from 1 hour in Houston, en route for 15 glorious days in Louisiana.
Louisiana aint USA. Its so laid back & friendly I didnt wanna leave.
Treat each state as is Giok, forget the whole, and have a real good time, I gawantee.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 06:01 PM

Well I've solved my problem now. I'm off to Singapore, Hong Kong, Bankok, and Pattaya Beach from 2nd November, to the 18. Sorry folks, but I find paranoia is infectious, so chickened out.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jimmyt
Date: 03 Aug 04 - 08:16 PM

Well, Goik, I am sure you will be happier in a place like SIngapore that on May 27th just overthrew their previous law that banned public gum chewing. SOrry you have decided against the USA I sure enjoy coming to your country although I am sure there are lots of archaic laws there too.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 08:43 AM

Don't take it personally Jimmyt, I've been to the states, I love it, and want to see more. I've been twice, and haven't seen half as much as I want to, I'll be back as McArthur said, but I hate hassle, I'm too old for it.
Singapore and gum, now that's a whole different ball game. I Hate gum, and banning it is one of the most civilised steps taken by any government in the history of mankind. I just wonder how much pressure was put on them by a US government, in thrall to the political contributions of big business, to make them relax that law!
Seriously though, I've never been to Thialand or Hong Kong, and have only ever stopped over in Singapore en route to Australia, so I'd like to see them while I can.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 08:56 AM

giok - I've lived almost 50 years in the states (t-56 days and counting) and haven't seen anywhere near what I'd like to!

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: Mrs Cobble
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 07:42 PM

I was in USA feb 2004 . It took us almost 3 hours to clear imigration(Atlanta). We then found our bags had been removed and left unattened in the middle ot the luggage hall . They could have been stolen or worse opend and a bomb put in how would we have explained that! so much for security!
Mrs C

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jimmyt
Date: 04 Aug 04 - 07:54 PM

I fly in and out of Atlanta all the time Mrs Cobble. I flew in from SanFrancisco recently and had a very long wait for luggage. 2 hours after I was on the ground until I had it.

The possibility of someone slipping a bomb in your luggage when you were ARRIVING in the US and would be away from the airport would seem 1, difficult, 2 ridiculous and 3 counterproductive. I have had similar catastropes on airports all over Europe. THe point is that personal testimony about a problem with travel etc is hardly reason to change your travel plans. It is sort of chicken little mentality. GO where you want. Most of the time you will have good travel experiences, sometimes you won't and it is not a reflection on any one country, in my humble opinion.

Subject: RE: BS: Holidays in the US
From: jimmyt
Date: 05 Aug 04 - 03:00 PM

update, 2PM Thursday

my daughter just arrived in Paris, there were no steps to deplane the BA flight and they sat on tarmac for over one hour. Her loggage was an additional hour delayed. Travel is annoying and bad things can happen anywhere.