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BS: Every one should look at this web page
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Subject: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Louie Roy Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:11 AM Having served 4 years in the navy during WW 2 I've learned to hate a liar and a phony and I still do.Everyone should look at this web page and I'm sure it will open a lot of eyes.www.swiftvets.com |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Pied Piper Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:56 AM Somewhat lacking in real evidence, looks like propaganda, but Republican/Democrat makes no difference the US Empire continues to propel humanity toward extinction. PP |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: artbrooks Date: 11 Aug 04 - 11:56 AM And, for a somewhat different perspective on these comments, check out Snopes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 12:08 PM Actually, I believe it is this page (scroll to bottom) that gives the TRUE story of John Kerry and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Don Firth Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:16 PM Go with the Snopes version. I saw the debate between John Kerry and John O'Neill on the Dick Cavett show back in 1971 and I saw a rebroadcast of it just recently. The young John Kerry was eloquent and articulate, he spoke of specific incidents, and he had facts and figures to back up what he said. John O'Neill was not stupid, but he was a fount of T-shirt messages and bumper-stickers. The debate with Kerry allowed O'Neill to demonstrate what a flag-waving Super-Patriot ass he was. And apparently still is. O'Neill has held that grudge for thirty-three years, and now he's taking this opportunity to take pot-shots at Kerry. Like a Chihuahua yapping at a lion. This sort of crapola was to be expected. Don Firth |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:20 PM "The debate with Kerry allowed O'Neill to demonstrate what a flag-waving Super-Patriot ass he was." Now it is the DNC and the Kerry campaign demonstrating what a flag-waving Super-Patriot ass Kerry is. How times change, eh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Peace Date: 11 Aug 04 - 01:28 PM I read the link provided by artbrooks and I have the following observation. The statements written by the various people have NO gramattical errors, and three uses of C in C are hyphenated. There are no punctuation errors to speak of. I AM impressed. I am not implying that naval personnel can't write good English. Some of my university profs were reserve or retired military people. However, surely someone could have made a mistake somewhere, even if only to convince me that the whole gang of them didn't graduate with Honours in English. Cute, but an error on their part, IMHO. Bruce Murdoch |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:26 PM Al Franken has been talking a lot about this ad on his show on Air America Radio during the last few days. (You can listen live online). Here's a quote from his blog:
Swift Boat Veterans for Lies: watch their revolting, dishonest advertisement here, take a shower, discover that none of the people in the ad actually served with John Kerry and that 10 of the 11 men who were in John Kerry's Swift Boat are supporting his candidacy (the eleventh is dead) here, and fight against this kind of sewer politics here. Ben Wikler Posted 08.05.2004 |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST,Blackcatter Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:31 PM Jim and Franken are right. All those men against Kerry didn't actually serve with him. How in the hell can they honestly say anything. Oh wait, they're getting paid by Republican POCs. Hmmmmmm. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:36 PM Oh please. The sanctimony of you Kerry supporters is nauseating. No one gives a shit except except the extreme Kerry fanatics and the extreme Bush fanatics. Don't you know how disingenuous this all is? Do you all just not get it? Most Americans could care less about this stupidity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Jim Dixon Date: 11 Aug 04 - 02:51 PM Guest, why do you stick your nose in places where you are nauseated? Senator John McCain is one of the people who "gives a shit." This Associated Press story has appeared in many newspapers:
Former POW calls on Bush to denounce anti-Kerry spot By RON FOURNIER Associated Press 8/6/2004 WASHINGTON - Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, blasted an ad criticizing John F. Kerry's military service, calling it "dishonest and dishonorable" and urging the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well. The White House declined.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Aug 04 - 03:07 PM Guest, I think the thing that should really worry you is this: Only in the USA and a few other exceedingly aggressive countries (mostly dictatorships) are a man's military credentials considered a key to getting him elected! You should ask yourself why that is. I am from Canada. No Canadian politician in living memory got elected by beating his chest over past military heroics. We elect civilians here, not professional warriors. Countries that live to invade and conquer other people elect warriors. You look into that. If Kerry protested against the Vietnam War beside people like Jane Fonda, then he was serving not only America, but also the greater humanity at the same time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:40 PM You'll get no argument from me on that score Little Hawk. My bitch is Kerry isn't an anti-warrior anymore, he has become a born again warrior. Or is that an anti-anti-warrior... |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Aug 04 - 04:47 PM Yes, well, I can understand your cynicism regarding that all right... He is still apparently saying that he did the right thing to vote in favour of attacking Iraq...even though Iraq did not attack America, even though Iraq posed no threat to America...even though Iraq had no WMD's. What a dummy. I can't fathom why politicians seem to have this psychological inability to admit that they might ever have made a mistake in the past. The very nature of Democratic and Republican party politics IS to make liars out of people...and to fool most of the people most of the time. That is how you get elected in America. By fooling most of the people. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:04 PM Incontrovertible evidence that America takes the Republican so-called "Swift Boat" assault against Kerry as seriously as, well: "When they say they served with Kerry in Vietnam, what they really mean is that they were in Vietnam at the same time. Kind of like how Snoopy served with the Red Baron" --Jon Stewart, on the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, who have attacked Kerry's military service record. "A controversial new book claims that John Kerry laughed while burning enemy villages and slaughtering animals. I don't buy it — Kerry laughing?" —Craig Kilborn "At the convention John Kerry showed up with all his Vietnam crewmates. And not to be outdone, next month at the Republican Convention George W. Bush is going to show up with all his college drinking buddies." —David Letterman "The Democrats are very proud of John Kerry's service record. And they choose those words carefully. They always say 'decorated war hero.' And let me tell you why they do that. They always say 'hero' because that appeals to women. Women like that — hero. 'War' — that appeals to men. They relate to that — war. And 'decorated,' that gets in the gay vote." —Jay Leno "The prisoner scandal is yet another election year problem for President Bush. And, with the economy still struggling, combat operations in Iraq dragging on, and the 9-11 hearings revealing damning information, even an opponent of limited political skill should be able to capitalize on those problems. The Democrats, however, chose to nominate John Kerry." --Jon Stewart |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: DonMeixner Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:12 PM I am afraid to say that where truth and fiction lay within American politics it seems acceptable to tell what ever lies are needed to get elected. Then tell what ever lies are needed to stay in office. And tell whatever truth or lies you need to tell to sell your memoirs when you leave the post. Don |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Rabbi-Sol Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:20 PM This smear ad is Willie Horton all over again. Of course the Bush campaign is saying that they have nothing to do with it. And there are some people who are actually stupid enough to belive them. SOL ZELLER |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Peace Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:22 PM Throw enough and some sticks. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST Date: 11 Aug 04 - 05:26 PM You guys just don't get it, do you? Listen. As the jokes above demonstrate, most people DO know that ALL the politicians are lying to them. But what do you think they should do about it? Not vote at all? People vote the way they vote, because they are programmed to vote either Dem or Rep based on their upbringing and their economic status. Change those two factors in peoples' voting habits, and you can start the revolution up faster than Arnie can say "girlie men". |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST,Charmion at work Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:08 PM Little Hawk, you're even righter than you know about Canadian politicians and military service. In fact, not one single prime minister of Canada has ever even campaigned on his military or naval service record, let alone been elected because of it. The only prominent politicians since Confederation who were noted as much for their military credentials as for their civic contributions were George Pearkes, who earned the Victoria Cross at Passchendaele and served as Minister of National Defence in John Diefenbaker's cabinet, and Sam Hughes, who thought he should have got the Victoria Cross for his adventures in the South African War and got fired from his Cabinet post (Militia and Defence) by Prime Minister Robert Borden in 1916, at the height of the First World War, for screwing around with the command link between Parliament and the Canadian Expeditionary Force overseas. A fair few Canadian politicians had good war records that helped their candidacy -- J.L. Ralston, George Drew and John Matheson, for example -- but none of them could have got elected on that alone. And General Andrew G.L. McNaughton, who was cherry-picked from the command of First Canadian Army in 1944 to be MacKenzie King's Defence minister, couldn't get himself elected to the House even though he was campaigning on implementation of conscription, the burning issue of the day for most Canadian voters. The most egregious example of the irrelevance of military service to success as a politician in Canada was Pierre Trudeau, who dodged the draft and bragged about it (in 1945, he was photographed posing in a Nazi helmet), and was Canada's second-longest-serving prime minister, after MacKenzie King. Why is Canada so different from the U.S. on this issue? In my admittedly arrogant opinion, it is because each and every Member of the Canadian House of Commons, even the Prime Minister, is elected by the residents of a specific riding (constituency or electoral district), and success at the polls depends at least as much on how well the electors in each riding think a candidate will represent them as it does on the party's platform. This parish-pump approach is both the greatest strength and the greatest weakness of Canadian parliamentary democracy. Because each politician's career depends on success with mundane local problems like fishing rights, milk prices and lumber exports, his or her horizons -- and ambitions -- are likewise restricted. As long as this system survives, Canada will never rule the world, for which the world should be properly grateful. Charmion Chaplin-Thomas |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: GUEST,heric Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:15 PM LH's post felt intutively correct, until my foggy old brain rememebered LBJ, Richard Nixon, Jimmy Carter, Ronald Reagan, Bill Clinton and George Bush. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Little Hawk Date: 11 Aug 04 - 06:17 PM Amen! And Canada should be grateful for that too. Ruling the World is no bed of roses, and it usually leads to absolutism and arrogance. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Cobble Date: 11 Aug 04 - 09:19 PM What gets my goat is that Bush and Blair or twig and teeth are just a pair of arrogant liars, nice eh, no wmd's found and suddenly no one to blame. Just a pair of oil thieves giving there friends good jobs with lots of profit. If the Sudan had oil would these starving millions have had long to wait for help. I DONT THINK SO. Cobble. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Nerd Date: 12 Aug 04 - 02:35 AM The organizers of "Swift Boat Veterans" are the same guys who organized the "John McCain was a traitor during Vietnam" smear campaign that got Bush the nomination. None of the people who claim they "served with him" actually witnessed him in action. They say "I served with Kerry" to mean "we were in Vietnam at the same time." The doctor who claims he treated Kerry for one of his Purple Heart wounds is NOT the doctor listed on Kerry's medical records. In other words: they're all lying, and they're being paid by professional spin doctors who have already done this to McCain for Bush's last campaign. The fact that ANYONE can get away with this is just a shame. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Louie Roy Date: 12 Aug 04 - 11:29 AM Most of you who voiced your opinion I'm sure believed all the Bullshit Kerry tried to sell to the American people at the Democract convention and whether you want to admit it he didn't quite throw it high enough to make it stick.He also didn't accomplish his entire goal there are still some of us who are not afraid to look at both side of the street |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Peace Date: 12 Aug 04 - 12:36 PM Louie Roy, The 'testaments' by the vets who claim to have served with or observed Kerry during his time in Vietnam are bullshit documents. They all write in the same style. They all have perfect English. Give me a break. Which idiot didn't know enough to change writing styles? Many people got Purple Hearts for scratches. It happens. Whether or not he deserved three is a moot point. Allow me to point out that while Kerry was IN Vietnam, Bush was beatin' his meat in the USA. There may be many things for which one might take Kerry to task, but the crap 'testaments' are just that: crap. You may be one of the people "who are not afraid to look at both side of the street", but maybe you should have a good look. You are going the wrong way. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: artbrooks Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:05 PM When I was in Vietnam, if I had received 3 Purple Hearts for minor dings, and somebody told me that I could go home before I encountered a VC who was a better shot, nobody had better have gotten between me and the plane. Welcome home, John, and best of all-American luck to you. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: PoppaGator Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:25 PM Ironically enough, perhaps the most telling piece of evidence that Kerry's service in Nam was dead serious and conceivably heroic is the fact that he was there for such a short time. When his critics began to point out that he was only there for four months, I was flabbergasted and *favorably* impressed. He had to have taken some pretty serious hits not to have been kept in-country for the usual full year. As artbrooks implies just above, getting the hell out of there was not easily accomplished. Also, his Silver and Bronze Stars are truly impressive -- much moreso than the three Purple Hearts. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Kim C Date: 12 Aug 04 - 05:40 PM Opinions are like... well, you know what they're like. Everybody has one. Some people will say Kerry was a good soldier, other people will say he was lousy. I do know one thing, though, and that is, just because someone makes a good soldier, it doesn't necessarily make them President material. If you don't believe me, go study up on the Grant administration. Since military service by a Presidential candidate is not required by the Constitution, I don't really care how good a soldier Kerry was, or wasn't. I'm more interested in what he's done as a Senator. Maybe he could talk about that some more instead of his military adventures. |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Thomas the Rhymer Date: 12 Aug 04 - 09:11 PM If George could only cut the strings that pull his every move Admitting of mistaken things that silver spoons behoove Monumental populations would heave a bas relief And media'd manipulations t'would gi' us far less grief |
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Subject: RE: BS: Every one should look at this web page From: Peace Date: 13 Aug 04 - 01:59 AM Bien dit! Bravo. |
