Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'

Subject: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Lighter (w/o cookie)
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:14 PM

On Nov. 12, 1939, in Belvedere, Calif., the folklorist Sidney Robertson Cowell recorded this text from Captain Leighton Robinson, Alex Barr, Arthur Brodeur, and Leighton McKenzie. You can hear them singing it at the Library of Congress's "American Memory" site.


         Sally, Sally, my love Sally!
          Way, he-ey, roll and go!
         Oh, Sally, Sally, my love Sally!
          Spend my money on Sally Brown!

[Similarly:]

         Sally Brown, I love your daughter....

         Sally she lives o'er the water....

         Sally Brown that gay mulatta,
         Oh, Sally she's a gay mulatta.

         Seven long years I courted Sally....

         She lived down along our alley....

         Sally, I will not deceive you....

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Lighter (w/o cookie)
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 08:34 PM

Left out the final verse:

                Off to sea I'll have to leave you....

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: SINSULL
Date: 19 Aug 04 - 09:14 PM

Damn! This thing has been noodling through my brain for over a week. I finally got rid of it and you have to post this!

Way Hey Roll and go!


AARRRGGGHHHHHHH!

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: cobber
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 12:17 AM

I learned a slightly different version years ago in England.
Sally Brown She's a bright mulatta
Way Hey Roll and Go
She drinks rum and chews tobacco
Spend my money on Sally Brown

Ten long years I courted Sally
(twice)

Sally Brown she's got a daughter
Sent me sailing cross the water

The main difference is that some verses had two different lines instead of repeats.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 01:52 AM

And fom an old sailor (square rigger) I once knew--

"Sally Brown, I love your daughter..
I love the place she makes her water.."

Sailors were known to be, on rare occasion, less than polite.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Roberto
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 03:47 AM

Very good, Lighter. A fine recording, a great site.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,longarm
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 04:06 AM

One of the verses I remember is 'Sally she flys a nice pair of topsails'

Pete

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Lighter (w/o cookie)
Date: 20 Aug 04 - 07:33 AM

Somewhere among the R. W. Gordon papers at the Library of Congress is the unpublished verse,

            Sally she's a nice little hooker,
            Taut and trim and a very good looker.

Gordon was sent this in the mid 1920s.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 01:19 AM

Olive Lewin (Jamaican folklorist) gives this song in her study of JA traditional material _Rock It Come Over_ (2000), which she recorded in 1968.

Sally was a whorin' mulatta
    Oh Sally
Sally was a whorin' mulatta
    Oh Sally
Sally sweet a day, Sally sweet a night
Sally sweet a day, Sally sweet a night
Sally was a whorin' mulatta
    Oh Sally

Work was performed on "Oh Sally."

It was used for hauling houses, which were propped onto logs and to which the ropes were attached.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,iains
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 04:20 AM

A version with Teribus singing



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dVNBbn8Zprw

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 16 Sep 20 - 10:18 AM

Outstanding performance.

Their version comes from a recording in 1968 by the band Sweeney's Men (Andy Irvine, Johnny Moynihan, Terry Woods).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 12:49 AM

I'm curious, however, about what might have been the reasoning behind adding an extra beat after each refrain.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 04:28 AM

Planxty live

Andy Irvine again, this time with Planxty in the Abbey Tavern in 1980.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 07:50 AM

If I remember correctly, the original text and tune appeared in an early issue of the Journal of the English Folk Song Society.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: allanwill
Date: 17 Sep 20 - 11:07 PM

My interpretation of the lyrics by Paradiddle, an Aussie band of the late 1970's.

Sally Brown

I shipped on board of a Liverpool liner
Way-hey, roll and go.
And we rolled all night and we rolled 'till day-o
to spend my money along with Sally Brown.

Sally Brown is a nice-a young lady
Way-hey, roll and go.
And we rolled all night and we rolled 'till day-o
to spend my money along with Sally Brown.

Her mother doesn't like a tar-ey sailor
Way-hey, roll and go.
And we rolled all night and we rolled 'till day-o
to spend my money along with Sally Brown.

She wants her to marry a one-legged captain
Way-hey, roll and go.
And we rolled all night and we rolled 'till day-o
to spend my money along with Sally Brown.

I shipped on board of a Liverpool liner
Way-hey, roll and go.
And we rolled all night and we rolled 'till day-o
to spend my money along with Sally Brown.


Allan

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Martin Ryan
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 02:28 AM

Several mentions in this thread of Johnny Moynihan, once of Sweeneys Men. He’s still to the good in Kinvara in the West of Ireland. Pre-lockdown, Sally Brown was still a regular feature from him.

Regards

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 04:49 AM

Lighter -

Hmm, there is a vague similarity in form and the phrase "Liverpool liner," but they are nowhere near close enough to say the Sweeney's Men version is from the Folk Song Society article. Unless... they just glanced at it, said to hell with the tune and we'll make up lyrics / cull them from various places. And no extra beat after the bobbins in JFFS.

Here's my example of the bit in
1914        Sharp, Cecil J., A.G. Gilchrist, and Lucy R. Broadwood. “Sailors’ Chanties.” Journal of the Folk-Song Society 5(18):31-44.
"Sally Brown" in JFFS (1914) sung by Gibb Sahib

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Wm
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 10:29 AM

Sweeney's Mens seems to have sourced their text (and tune?) from J.M. (Sailor Dad) Hunt.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: RTim
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 12:43 PM

Sally Brown - Roud 2628. – James Bounds - Portsmouth
(GG/1/14/885) – Tune & Text – Bounds – 5 Aug 1907
Collected by Dr. G. Grardiner.

Sally Brown she’s a gay old lady
Weigh heigh roll and go
Sally Brown she’s a gay old lady
Spend my money on Sally Brown

Sally Brown she’s a matelot’s daughter
Sally Brown she is a fine daughter

Mrs. Brown I love your daughter
Oh, Sally Brown I’m a-going for to leave you

Good-bye Sally, good-bye darling
While I’m away Sally won’t you write me?

Yes, I’ll write to you my darling
When I return I’ll marry your daughter

And we’ll have a great big supper
After the supper we’ll have a dancing

There’ll be dancing and singing the whole night
The bands they will play and the bones they will rattle

And shan’t I be glad when I marry Sally.
And shan’t I be glad when I marry Sally.


Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 12:53 PM

I guess I remembered incorrectly.

But they still didn't invent it out of whole cloth.

Nice presentation, Gibb. Lloyd popularized this tune (from John Short's), with extra Sally verses, some apparently original with him, on the LP "A Sailor's Garland" (1962).

The album, regrettably, has never appeared on CD. It's a good one.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 01:41 PM

John M. "Sailor Dad" Hunt (1876-1951) was an American seaman who performed chanteys at the White Top Folk Festival in the 1930s.

In May, 1934, Hunt took part in what is said to have been the first radio program ever broadcast from the White House. He sang "Santy Anno."

Hunt told a reporter, "The President he says to me, he says, 'Sailor Dad, I ain't never heard nawthing like it before.'"

In 1939 he recorded "When Jones's Ale was New," "Johnny's Gone to Hilo," and "Sally Brown" for the Library of Congress.

I'm posting Hunt's "Santy Anno" to this thread:

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=10074#68184

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Sep 20 - 01:52 PM

And I've posted Hunt's "Hilo" here:

https://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=15683&messages=35

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 05:56 AM

Ah yes, Sailor Dad. Thank you, GUEST, Wm!

Oh and Lighter, I wasn't chewing you out about the reference (in case you thought that)! I was just confused.

And thanks for reminding me of the Lloyd recording. I went back and listened and now I'm confused by another thing: Why Lloyd decided to perform so a-rhythmically / non-metrically. For all the talk people do about how "the rhythm of chanties is so important," they sing a lot in a way that has no sensible working rhythm.

I never got to listen to the Sailor Dad recording in LOC. I wonder if he added the extra beats or if Sweeney's Men did. If Hunt added them, I would guess it's because he was singing solo and so he had to sing both call and response, and needed to take a breath. Same goes for the "Sally Brown" collected by Sharp (1914) that I sang, which has an extra beat in the notation, though in a different location.

One reason why I'm interested is that I've theorized the cotton screwing songs included an extra beat as a matter of course. It would be interesting if that was preserved in Hunt's "Sally".

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 09:41 AM

Gibb, check your email.

I don't know much about beats, but when Stan Hugill sang "Santy Anna" at Mystic many decades ago, he added a couple:

We're sailing down the river from (X) Liverpool,
Away, Santy Anna1
Our sails are set and our (X) hatches full,

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 19 Sep 20 - 09:44 AM

>Damn!<

All on the plains of Mexico.

He said it was often (sometimes?) done. Maybe he was thinking of Caribbean shantymen?

FWIW.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 20 Sep 20 - 03:00 AM

I don't think so. Caribbean singing is like clockwork.
Feeny Brown

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Sep 22 - 07:08 AM

1826 'nautical' type stage act origins debate here: Origins: Faithless Sally Brown.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 17 Apr 24 - 11:23 PM

Another show biz version, lyrics are a closer fit to the new model. I've edited out most of the running comedy skit that goes with:

“The seamen as usual lighten their labor with song and chorus, and the one they sang on our old ship was peculiarly musical, the chorus of "Old Sally Brown" being given by the whole crew with great emphasis. I took my seat on the upper deck, and listened.

"Heave away there forward."
“Ay, ay, Sir.”

[Sailors.]
        "Sally Brown, oh my dear Sally,
                Oh Sally Brown.        [Chorus.]
        Sally Brown of Bubble Alley,
                Oh Sally Brown."

        "I went to town to get some toddy,
                Oh Sally Brown,
        'Twasn't fit for any body
                Oh Sally Brown!"

        “Sally is a bright Mullattar,
                Oh Sally Brown,
        Pretty girl, but can't get at her,
                Oh Sally–––––”

        “Seven years I courted Sally,
                Oh Sally Brown,
        Seven more of Shilly Shally,
                Oh Sally Brown.
        She won't wed–––––”

        "She won't wed a Yankee Sailor,
                Oh Sally Brown."

        "Sally Brown-oh, my dear Sally,
                Oh Sally Brown;
        Sally Brown of Bubble Alley,
                Oh Sally Brown;
        Sally was a cross old Granny,
                Oh––––––––––”

["Drifting About", Or, What "Jeems Pipes, of Pipesville," Saw-and-did: An Autobiography, Massett, Mullen, 1863]

Stephen C. Massett (1820-1898) - one of, if not the, first minstrel/vaudeville players in San Francsico.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Lighter
Date: 18 Apr 24 - 07:49 AM

"Bubble Alley" may be Booble Alley in Liverpool.

Melville, in Redburn, called it "putrid with vice."

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 06:29 AM

It's just a copy-paste from Marryat's Diary in America, when he saw the patent windlass used for the first time.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 03:48 PM

Thanks Gibb. I reckon the truth is stranger than fiction and funnier than comedy. Massett is innocent. I totally missed this paragraph right before The seamen as usual....

“The peculiar hurry and scurry on board a New York and London Packet Ship in olden times*, is so happily hit off by one whose name I have forgotten, that I am tempted to transcribe it from some manuscript notes I have by me....”

*fwiw: All of the above appears in Chapter I “My First Voyage.” Per Massett, in the summer of 1837 on the “Hampton,” Capt. David Balderston, out of London.

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 19 Apr 24 - 09:38 PM

I suspect that Melville also had read Marryat and which caused him to write, in Moby Dick,

"…the hands at the windlass, who roared forth some sort of a chorus about the girls in Booble Alley, with hearty good will."

As far as I know, Melville did not ship (i.e. during his experiences that inspired Moby Dick) in vessels with a brake windlass --and-- If this was in reference to "Sally Brown" (what else do we rhyme with "alley" but "Sally"?), it doesn't work with (Melville's) handspike windlass.

Though "anything is possible," probability and Occam's Razor say Melville cribbed it from Marryat and left it appropriately vague ("some sort of chorus").

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: GUEST,Don whistle
Date: 21 Apr 24 - 05:36 AM

Not wanting to be contrary but Omoo (Lucy Ann) p 45 describes a windlass that sounds like a brake windlass rather than a handspike windlass.
PS love these threads
Don

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 22 Apr 24 - 04:34 AM

Don whistle -- Not at all. I appreciate your fact-checking!

On Omoo's page 155, Melville writes:

"...I went on deck to take my place at the windlass; for the anchor was weighing. Poky followed, and heaved with me at the same handspike."

Omoo was published in 1847 and, I understand (I'm not a Melville expert) it is based on Melville's whaling experiences on the Acushnet 1841-1842.

I have written that a comparable whaling vessel, the Charles W. Morgan, which launched in 1841 (and IIRC was built in the same shipyard as Acushnet?) appears (based on the voyage logs and purchasing records I've looked at) not to have carried a brake windlass until its third voyage which began in 1849. This accords with my sense that although brake windlasses were in use earlier (the stunning example being Marryat's 1837 account, mentioned above, when he arose to the shock of the new device), they were not very widespread until the mid-1840s.

I believe Melville "missed" the time of the brake windlass (though I'm very interested in evidence to the contrary), and I think this is one reason why we see little to be connected to familiar chanties in Melville's works (which otherwise, I would guess, would revel in the chance to incorporate those songs). That's because I believe that the established use of brake windlasses was the pre-condition to (not the existence but rather) the real flourishing of chanties on ships and why we don't have a robust record of the chanties until late 1840s (theme of my documentary Songs of the Windlass).

Subject: RE: Lyr Add: 'Sally Brown'
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Apr 24 - 10:41 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0Bq4-fCH0c