BS: Say It With Flowers

Subject: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Pogo
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 06:54 PM

Okay since I love dispensing random information and feel like a lighter change of subject from such serious and in-depth topics such as politics, religion and helping El Ted pick out a new nail polish color, here we go...

In Victorian times it was common for courting lovers to send secret messages through flowers. Each flower had a specific meaning attached to it i.e. :

Red Rose: I love you truly, madly deeply
Lilac: You are my first true love
Peony: I'm sorry
Orchid: I want to make you happy
Petunia: I like being around you
Jasmine: Everything will turn out okay
Chrysanthemum: I believe in you
Gardenia: You're beautiful and sweet
Begonia: We're being watched!
Bluebell: I'll never cheat on you
Iris: Come on baby light my fi-yer...*cough* well I'm sure it meant something different in the genteel Victorian era

I also heard that white roses symbolized innocent love, red roses passionate love and yellow roses were " let's just be friends "

Creative ideas to put in that next boo-quet of flowers for yo' hunny, guys {O)

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:13 PM

I knew there was a reason I hate begonnias and chrysanthemums....

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:13 PM

I think this is probably an urban myth, Pogo.

A

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Micca
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:25 PM

So, do you think I need to include a card with the 2 cacti and the bunch of hemlock and deadly nightshade then?

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:36 PM

Last time I tried to say it with flowers, I nearly got my face slapped!

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: GUEST,Lilyfestre
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:45 PM

I went and bought myself a nice bunch of flowers today just because I am miserable. A mixed bunch of flowers with purples, dark orange, deep yellows....they sure do look pretty sitting in the middle of the table with the sunlight streaming through. I'm not sure I should try to figure out the messages that are being sent....a mixed bouquet sends mixed messages, no?
Michelle

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:51 PM

It's not actually - the Victorian society was so strictly controlled by the elders, that it was very difficult to actually talk to a young woman alone, and for an unmarried woman to address a man directly was almost unheard of. Also, young women wore fresh or silk flowers as ornaments rather than jewellery. The language of the flowers evolved as a sort of code to indicate your feelings. If your sweetheart was wearing red roses then you knew you were in luck. If she was wearing monkshood and stinging nettles then it was time to find another sweetheart! (Joke!!)

There was also a whole 'language' evolved around the other great Victorian accoutrement, the fan. The way you held your fan or what you did with it indicated various emotions and instructions.

There have been many books on the subject, one published in 1883, as menitioned in this link and is still an intriguing subject today.

LTS

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Pogo
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 07:56 PM

yep...I've heard about the fan language too. Oh those mad impetous Victorians...

hmmm...maybe if it's signed in rat's blood Micca...and it's a Hallmark

So how Foolstroupe did you say...

O_O

no...never mind...I really don't want to know

Michelle, indeed. Be careful. You might have just told yourself that you adore the color of your armadillos and wish to spend time and all eternity with Margaret Thatcher's corset. Don't take the power of the flower lightly...


On the other hand, makes you wonder how you'd take lilies. " Hmm..either he's telling me I'm as pure and innocent as the driven snow and he adores me for that...or he wants me to kill myself. Honey??? Should we talk??? "

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:40 PM

Well, Pogo, mayhap I was hasty and there was in fact some evolved code system, but where did you get your decipher log from? Is there any authoritative source documenting which flower meant which? I would hate to find I was sending signals of unbridled passion when I meant to be offering condolences on recent financial losses or some such message!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Alba
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 08:48 PM

Amos, we wouldn't want you sending the wrong posy now would we...LOL
Pre-Victoriana the Flower Language got around a lot of sticky situations where words could not be spoken.
So just for you....Talking Flowers!
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: SINSULL
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:04 PM

I have always thought of long-stemmed red roses as the ultimate in thoughtlessness. If you really want to please someone, find out their favorite flower and send it instead. You will probably save some money too.
SINSULL, who loves daffodils

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:07 PM

This is a great thread ! I am working on a traveling show at the moment on the history of flower pots in the Americas and Britian .We are calling the show " A Place To Take Root "
             I brought up this subject with Peggy Cornett who is the plant historian at Monticello and who spoke at the third weekend when the show was at Stonington Ct , and she said much of the same thing that she thought the making of emotional imagery of this kind was a Victorian addition. It does seem like something that would have been around in Elizabithian times and back to Greece and Rome !

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:08 PM

Here in the deep south of the US of A, we say it with flares.

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:14 PM

Sorry I hit return and I returned to the ozone!! If anyone is interested in seeing the show it is at The College of the Atlantic this month in Bar Harbor Maine and is then is going onto The Royal Bonaic Garden at Hamelton Onterio .
          If I hear any more on the great list above I will add to it . I have a meeting with Crabbtree and Evaline in early September . They should have a ton of these. !! All the best to all here .. !! GUY
         

         Amos thanks for the phone call . I have been away but Lizzy got the most beautifull Bears from Catsphiddle . She is a Dear !!!

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:29 PM

Guess that means that horticultural ignoramuses that didn't know a dahlia from a day lilly never got any nooky, huh?

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:46 PM

From the above link, just a quick extract:

"In the early 18th century the Turkish "Secret Language of Flowers" was introduced to Europe by Lady Mary Wortley Montague, wife of the British ambassador to Constantinople."

A

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:49 PM

Really though, this is quite impossible. Following these instructions I can see two prospective Victorian lovers sending the same bouquet back and forth to each other, the flowerrs always the same, but the meanings adding up to a real brouhaha des fleurs. Here for example are several entries on the subject of almonds and thie rmeaning:

Almond: Hope, Giddiness, Heedlessness


Almond (Common): Stupidity, Indiscretion


Almond (Flowering): Hope; I continue to hope


Almond, Laurel: Perfidy


Almond Tree: Stupidity, thoughtlessness

Try translating them apples! LOL


A

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: CarolC
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:50 PM

Sinsull has it right. Shortly before JtS came to Shepherdstown for our first face to face meeting, he called me up and asked me what kind of flowers I like. I was so moved by the fact that he cared enough to ask, I got all teary-eyed and gushy. I told him I like roses. He was so moved by my response to his question, he sent me two dozen (red).

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Amos
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 09:59 PM

Awww....now THAT's sweet, CC. Nicely turned, Jack!


A

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:06 PM

I agree with Amos. As a system of communication, there's far too much room for ambiguity. If I send someone a flower meaning "jealousy", does it mean that I'm jealous or that I'm accusing them of being jealous? Or could I be asking them if they're jealous? Or maybe asking them if I have reason to be jealous?

I think I would have preferred celibacy to trying to figure it all out.

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:37 PM

Thanks Amos ! I will look for that . All the best , Guy

Subject: RE: BS: Say It With Flowers
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 22 Aug 04 - 10:43 PM

I send Red Roses only to Carol. Everyone else gets assorted bouquets. I figure an assortment means, "Here is a bunch of pretty flowers with no particular secret meaning."