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BS: We've lost a good one
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Subject: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:22 PM I just received a PM from one of Mudcat's finest last evening. the person is leaving, indefinately. They did not want to make a public exit, which I can say only adds to the sense of class this person has always shown. Sick of all the rudeness, scatological language, hijacking of intelligent threads by people who are the cyber- equivalent of hecklers. It is a damn shame we are seeing the loss of fine people but managing to humor the cretins who only want to be rude, offensive,hurtful and nasty. What would make anyone want to be intentionally offensive? What can they gain by making people not like them? Anyway, just wanted you to know. We have lost a great, and what we have to show for it makes me sick. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: mg Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:35 PM I am sorry he or she is leaving or has left. Something that really bothers me is the personal sexual references that are made about specific people and/or their preferences, anatomy etc. That is just not right. For example, asking whether the newly married couple is "hetero". It is nobody's business but their's what anyone is....or slams about people living in trailer parks, uncalled for personal stuff. mg |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: DMcG Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:39 PM A friend of mine posted a question as guest recently and got a polite, helpful reply. I emailed them with this: ===== I see you've been posting at Mudcat! What happens as a rule is that you get 90% of sensible answers, 9% completely irrelevant and 1% abuse. Just be prepared for it if it turns up and its best totally ignored. ===== I regret feeling that it is necessary to warn them about written abuse but it seems to be in line with what whoever-has-left has experienced. Having said that, the only additional censorship I want at this site is self-censorship. Occasionally, I need more of it myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Clinton Hammond Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:42 PM "It is a damn shame we are seeing the loss of fine people but managing to humor the cretins who only want to be rude, offensive,hurtful and nasty" Petition the "Powers" here for change then... See how far THAT gets ya... Ya got MY vote JT.... |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Georgiansilver Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:43 PM jimmyt..as you know, due to lack of mudcat knowledge, I jumped in at the deep end and you were one of those who came some way towards rescuing me. There are those who enjoy the "school bully" syndrome and will probably do it wherever they are in life..but I believe some on here just do it for effect or to see what reaction they can get. Unfortunately people do become damaged...and although it may be argued that they should avoid places like mudcat on the grounds that "If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen"...I believe..as the Respect and Civility thread suggested, that each of us should afford respect and civility to all others......question or refute opinions by all means but NOT the people. It will obviously not happen but we can live in hope. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Wolfgang Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:50 PM Treehouse? Whoever (s)he is, I hope (s)he comes back after a break for we need such people, but I hope even more that Mudcat changes in a way that (s)he'll like to come back. Wolfgang |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Once Famous Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:53 PM Mary Garvey, cool we have the same initials!! BTW, it does make a difference to some if a married couple are hetero or not. Especially if a law is broken, or if they think something otherwise than what you think. It's not wrong, just different than what you think. So this person left. Oh, well. Life goes on, doesn't it? So does Mudcat. If one gets "damaged" by what goes on here, they really should seek some serious professional advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Aug 04 - 12:56 PM It's a shame - but the people who go in for that stuff aren't going to be shamed out of it. You can just hope they'll get bored and move on, or grow out of it (which doesn't imply that it's particularly young people who go in for it, because in some of the worst cases the indications are that the people concerned are by no means young). Sadly enough, even if they do move on, or rethink the way they treat the Mudcat, there'll probably always be similar types replacing them. But I don't think that trying to solve this by much stricter moderating would be worth it, because of the other ways it woudl impact on teh way the Mudcat community works. It's something those of us who hate it, the very large majority, are going to have to live with - and we need to avoid contributing to it by the way we respond and post. (Avoiding using words like "cretin", for example, I'd suggest. I'm sure it wasn't intended as "intentionally offensive", but offensive it certainly is for many people, including me.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:07 PM no it is not treehouse |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:24 PM Excuse me if I was offensive with the cretin reference, Mr Mc Grath. I am angry. If this was hurtful I apologise. See how easy it is? You say something is offensive, I apoogise I don't do it again if I realise it is offensive. That seems the civilised thing to do to me. Your defensive of The freedom to be offensive is a paradox to me, however. Just where does this stop? What is appears is that the bullys are protected at the expense of all the others..if bully is offensive,I hardly know how to discribe them otherwise. I a real three dimensional world, these people can be dealth with" If a heckler continues harrasment in a club, someone ultimately takes the initiative to stop this one person from ruining the evening for all the others. If you are at a party or another social situation, you cna politely walk away from someone who is being rude, loud or telling offensive jokes. SOciety has ways of dealing with these people in the real world. In here, how can it be accomplished? I am asking a real question. One person has the ability of wrecking the entire website if he or she wants to, and I really don't see how it can be solved. But I will say one thing, if it doesn't get solved soon, there will be a steady exit of folks who don't need to be exposed to the gutter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:39 PM There are a couple of suspects, based upon which members have been most vocal of late. Jerry Rasmussen. Art. Bobert is still here today, so he hasn't thrown in the towel. Yet. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:41 PM Without knowing who it is, and knowing what offends them, how do you think people will change their behavior? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:46 PM It's ONLY a web site get a grip on reality, if you dont like dont read or post, seems simple to me or have I missed something |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:48 PM I hope it isn't Don Firth. That man was singled out by your fantastic member MG for some real sick insults. It must warm the cockles of his heart to have had to sit back and watch some of his fellow members humour MG. But as Joe Offer pointed out so long as the insults are from a named member, then they stand undeleted. Why don't you ask for your rules to be changed. Or else prop open the exit door. Again, I hope it wasn't Don.
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:51 PM I bet it's jOhn from hull, cos he gets upset real easy |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST,MMario Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:51 PM so long as the insults are from a named member, then they stand undeleted not necessarily so... |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: John MacKenzie Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:54 PM It only encourages the troublemakers if they know who they've upset, and how they've done it. Undoubtedly if they're that dumb it will happen again. I've been tempted to pack it in myself [don't all cheer at once]. I know I'm guilty of making flippant remarks at inopportune moments, but I would never be so crass as to question a persons sexual proclivities, or make personal remarks about their physical appearance.I may question some peoples sanity though! Giok |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST,jimmyj Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:59 PM Hey jimmyt--with a posting history like this I wouldn't get too holier-than-thou. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST,jacqui.c Date: 25 Aug 04 - 01:59 PM It's a shame to lose a good Mudcatter to this sort of thing. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:24 PM It's not that I'm defending "the freedom to be offensive". I think that, when people post in ways that are intended to hurt other people, and to damage the way we can get along here together and learn from each other, and enjoy each others company, they are abusing their freedom, and attacking the freedom of the rest of us. But there's a real limit to what can be done to stop that kind of thing, here as in the big world. Go down that road, and the qualities that make the Mudcat worthwhile could be irreparably damaged. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Jeri Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:27 PM Art, Jerry and Don seem to be pretty good at not letting the bad here ruin the good for them, and they've already hung in through a lot. There have been times when I've been very frustrated at, not at the VERY few instigators of bad behavior, but at all the attention they get because of it and the way people you thought were nice respond in kind. Let's have one guy insult somebody or something, and just watch the whole thread go to hell while everybody who takes exception to it just HAS to post a reply, sometimes being every bit as nasty as the instigator. People bent on defending, and 'standing up' to nastiness are just the flip side of the same coin. There are times when we need to 'say something', but on an internet forum, it's often just noise...LOUD noise. Clinton, I don't know why you think moderation would be effective. Who do you think will do it? Speaking only for myself, they don't pay me enough to read every thread, personally decide what is and isn't crap, and edit out, even if Max were to accept the idea. What it's coming down to is either letting everything go on, however it goes on, or going 'membership only', so there's a way to bounce folks temporarily or permanently, when they refuse to play nice. People may one day think of the 'greater good' before they hit the send button, but I don't think we, as a whole, are capable of that. That may eventually force exclusion of non-members, whether they're new folks trying us out, regulars who just don't want cookies, people using silly names in fun, dedicated trolls or worse, members who want to be covertly snotty. The bottom line. There is good and bad here. If people decide the bad they see is enough to limit the possibility they'll ever see the good, it's their choice. I can't fault anyone who simply makes a decision about what they want, or don't want to do with their time. But the ones who win are the ones who hang in. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: open mike Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:37 PM well, for me, so far, the positive outweighs the negative. Sorry to find that someone found that not to be the case. I hope they will continue to keep in touch with the good people who have become friends, as that is one of the most important parts of this cafe', the good people who are here, who by far are the majority. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Once Famous Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:51 PM Guests, so many guests posting in a row, so afraid to use their normal identities. The biggest cowards on this forum. The absolute biggest phonies on the whole Internet. Whoever quit is reading the wrong threads. I don't look at every thread. Do you? |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Aug 04 - 02:55 PM It occurs to me that a technical thing that could possibly improve things a bit would be if we always had to push the preview button. Just possibly, seeing what we've just written up there in a more formal typeface might make us think again, sometimes, when we've written something we'll later wish we hadn't. I know I spot typing errors and ambiguities I'd missed that way. It wouldn't have a dramatic effect, and it wouldn't do a thing to stop the real nasties, but it might head off some of the angry responses that spiral on out of control. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: M.Ted Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:04 PM jimmyj-- Followed your link, and found this terribly incriminating post from Jimmyt-- >WHat a generally nice bunch of folks who congregate here! I have never enjoyed a place more. >Musicians are among the finest folks on earth. I couldn't hope to hang out with a better bunch. >Thanks for being here. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Once Famous Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:04 PM Sex is better when it is spontaneou. Why shouldn't posting on a forum? Get it right the first time and tell us how you really feel. don't hold back. To hold back would only promote second guessing and you know what is said about second guessing: You probably had it right the first time. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:10 PM MTed, I do generally think it is a nice bunch of folks and I generally enjoy thier posts and thoughts. I do also think it is a shame that a few can ruin it for the masses. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST,SueB Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:11 PM Something that drives me absolutely crazy is people who are privy to information, and act about it in a way that is reminiscent of a childhood taunt - "I know something you don't know" done in a singsong voice. If I knew who were we talking about here, I might be really bummed - but I don't know. All I'm feeling at this point is slightly irritated by what, to me, is an obnoxious post - the one that starts this thread. Other people may not have found it obnoxious at all, but we are all different. Of course it's a shame to lose a member of the Mudcat community, but there's a limit to how responsible you can ask me to feel for the decision of someone (whose identity I am not allowed to know) to take a break from the Mudcat Cafe. Hopefully he'll miss it and come back. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: wysiwyg Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:19 PM As someone who has left a number of times, sometimes loudly, I think I have a different perspective about this. And that is, it would be a real good thing to leave this whole subject alone for now-- discussing it only becomes part of the problem, however well-intentioned one may be about discussing it. Let the dust settle. Sometimes people just need time to process and rethink. ~Susan |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Once Famous Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:19 PM Guest, Sue B, you hit it right on the head. jimmyt's type of post is what irritates me also and the private little cliques are what is most wrong with this place and quite possibly promote some of the things that most annoy these self-appointed insiders. you bet we are all different. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: M.Ted Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:34 PM If Jimmyt's post irritates you Martin, I doubt that there is much that doesn't irritate you--I will grant that you are being unusually civil in this thread, though-- |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: PoppaGator Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:37 PM I don't understand some of the nasty things that get posted, but on the other hand, neither do I understand why anyone would take them seriously and get so bent out of shape about it. Doesn't it make more sense to avoid or ignore the small volume of annoying stuff than to stomp off in a huff? Those who are especially thin-skinned should probably stick to the music topics "above the line" and avoid the gossip down here, correctly classified as "BS." |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:44 PM "Clique" meaning that some people have got to know and like each each other over the Mudcat? That's pretty inevitable, unless they were to set out to alienate everybody with whom they get into conversation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Rasener Date: 25 Aug 04 - 03:48 PM Basically, if somebody insults or hounds a member of any forum, they are flaming. If somebody is flaming that is against the etiquette of forums. It is time the moderators started doing their job and warning and indeed banning these people. As far as guests are concerned then there is a very simple way to deal with them, and this requires strong moderating. Allow guests to post in a guest section, which is dealt with by the moderators. If the post is offensive, it gets deleted immediately. Allow guests to read threads but not post unless it is in the guest section. As far as mudcatters go, if they can't be civil, then ban them from the forum. How long are you going to let this go on moderators? If somebody posts a serious thread, one has to accept that other memebers may not agree with them. Thnat is fine, but if memebers start to flame , that is not acceptable. There is one hell of difference if people post in supposed serious threads with good humoured banter, as long as it doesn't get flamed. There should be a button to click on to warn the moderators if a thread appears to be getting offensive/ abusive / or out of hand. The moderators should lock the thread until the issues have been sorted out. Above all if a memeber thinks that soembody is flaming them, then they should Pm the person stating their concerns. If that doesn't sort it ( in most cases with sensible memebers it should), then it should be reported to the moderators. Moderators it is time to roll your sleeves up and get tough before things get totally out of hand. Its in your hands and shoudn't be shirked. I am sure most decent members will agree with me and look to your controlling this situation moderators. Nobody else can do it. There that is my ten penneth, and if somebody doesn't like what I have said then tough.It needs to get sorted now, before you lose all the decent members. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:04 PM No MG we are not phonies. We are guests. You on the other hand are not MG. What does that make you, apart from a someone with a very scarred childhood. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Clinton Hammond Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:18 PM Very well said, The Villan! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: pdq Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:22 PM From Villan to Hero in one post! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Rasener Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:26 PM LOL |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:43 PM Amen to what the resident Villan and Hero said. Moderation! Here! Here! |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: dwditty Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:52 PM Just for the record....I am still here....lol |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: John MacKenzie Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:53 PM So what do you do about posts like this? To-day |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:58 PM Sounds like good advice. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Justa Picker Date: 25 Aug 04 - 04:59 PM With all the good ones "we've" lost over the years, one could create a really killer folk forum from that group. Mudcat is to folk these days, what draught is to beer. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:00 PM I am sorry to seem like a schoolyard taunt,I was trying to respect Jerry Rasmussen's privacy. You bet I am pissed off that anything would happen to run off such a sincere, good guy. There. I said it. If this post somehow offends someone, so be it. I am only trying to stick up for the good guys here. If this is wrong, Too bad. I have had just about enough of the mean spirited snivelling intentional hurtful stuff myself. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Rasener Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:19 PM JGM My answer to that is the moderators are the people to look at thread/posts that appear to flame/insult or offend individual mudcatters and take strong action. Our job as mudcat members is to bring such matters to the moderators attention and not get involved with responding back to such offenders. If you do, you only make matters worse. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: katlaughing Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:25 PM Thanks, jimmyt. We've lost a lot of good people over the years because of this kind of crap. We've had lots of debates on whether to go to membership only. So far, that is something Max wants to avoid. we could always leave the Forum the way it is and have a "members only" section. I hope Jerry will reconsider. kat |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:34 PM Are you completely delusional? Guests are not your current problem. Members are. Did Jerry say who offended him? I bet he had a couple of names to mind. And neither was " GUEST." |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: jimmyt Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:40 PM you are correct guest |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: GUEST Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:41 PM Thank you jimmyt. |
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Subject: RE: BS: We've lost a good one From: Rasener Date: 25 Aug 04 - 05:44 PM Why are you responding as GUEST Guest. Have you not got a name. If you are a member then say who you are. If not join. |
