BS: have you ever renovated your church?

Subject: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,crazy little woman
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:39 AM

For three years now, we have been having meetings about the renovation of our church (built in 1922, ravished in 1970, and now in need of new drains, plaster work, handicapped access, and a place to put the choir.)

There's a chap at the diocese who is supposed to be helping us, and if we had a shortage of platitudes, he would be a help. But now, for example, we find he cannot even give us helpful leads to people who design church interiors. For example, he said to locate church restoration studios, and Google doesn't recognize that phrase, and it's not in the Yellow Pages.

(We have an architect, and she seems very good at designing walls and stairs, but not so good with the fancy stuff - reredos, ambo, font, et cetera. So we want to look further.)

So, if you helped restore your church in the last few years, what kind of people did you hire, and how did you locate them?

(In case you don't recognize my user name, I am in Kansas City.)

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:55 AM

not on the net as far as I can see - but try:

Ecclesiastical studios of Kansas City

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 11:00 AM

You need to talk with my husband, a parish priest, about the work our parish has done and how they went about it. If you are actually a Mudcat member please PM me for contact info, or email me.

~Susan
[e-mail]
Put MUDCAT in the subject line to get past the spam filters.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 11:36 AM

Don't do what a neighboring church did-- they got bids and plunged right into the work, after ignoring the advice we gave them about doing it right from the git-go. They ended up spending far more in the long run than they would have by working with the referral we gave them, and in terms of church relations, the project killed their spirit and set them all against one another. You see, our contractor is honest-- they put ALL the work needed into the bid, instead of underbidding to land the deal and then upping the cost every time a new little surprise is discovered.

My husband can tell you so much more, but.....

We used:

Fiske & Sons Inc.
Complete building preservation and restoration. Jeffrey and Jesse Fiske Sr., a fourth generation company.

Contact Info:
[phone]
[phone] (fax)
[phone] (toll-free)

They can probably give you leads in your area or tell you how to dig 'em up.


Another source for leads would be parishes that belong to the Consortium of Endowed Episcopal Parishes. They are likely to have done work as you describe and/or to know who did. I did not find any members in KS, but in MO:

St. Michael & St. George
The Rev. Andrew J. Archie
6345 Wydown
St. Louis, MO 63105
Work Phone [phone]
Preferred Email [e-mail]
Web Address http://www.csmsg.org

St. Louis-St. Peter's
The Rev. James Hughes Purdy
110 N. Warson Road
St. Louis, MO 63124
Work Phone [phone]
Preferred Email [e-mail]
Web Address http://www.stpetersepiscopal.org


THE LIVING CHURCH magazine is another potential source. There are display ads for a variety of church-related businesses, and there is a classified section where you could run an ad seeking bids and/or referrals.

But contact me.

~Susan

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: M.Ted
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 02:47 PM

First off, find and visit as many churches that have done work of the type you need to do--ask both "who did this?" and "How happy are you with the job they did?" and be prepared for a lot of long conversations--After a while, you will start to see what the options are--

Any building contractor could do the job, but if you want to make structural changes to the building, you may actually want an architect to design and supervise the work. It pays to explore a variety of options--talk with the architect that re-did the building in 1970(if this person can still be found), at least for reference purposes--also, talk to anyone in the church who was involved in that effort--you will learn some interesting things--

Find out as much as you can about the individual procedures that will be involved in the renovation, and what they will cost. i.e.--Drain replacement, plastering--etc. there are books that you can buy which the contractors use to draw up their estimates---you probably don't want to do the contracting yourselves, but this will help you to understand what the contractor is doing, or should be doing--

I have had some remodelling and renovation work done recently, and will be having more done, and my sadder but wiser advice is, the more you know, the better. Don't assume that someone else has got things under control--don't say yes until you understand exactly what is going to be done, and why--

Check this link:
Restoration Trades Catalog

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:23 PM

ravished in 1970

I hope you mean ravaged!

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,MMario
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:30 PM

I suspect that "revamped" might have been meant. I would hate to think the building had been ravaged 30 odd years ago and they are just now getting around to repairs.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:37 PM

Thanks for the information.

We do have an architect, and we are asking other churches about their contractors. We have people who can be trusted to deal with drains, plaster, etc. We've visited the other churches in our region that have done remodeling, but we haven't been impressed enough to want to use the people they used.

What we can't find are the people who do the fancy stuff - designing and making the things in the altar area.

I should explain that in the 1970's, the original, ornate altar was demolished and replaced by an ugly marble thing made of three slabs slapped together, and the apse was blocked off by austere walnut-veneer panels. Now, members break into applause whenever something is said about getting rid of them.

We are looking for someone to replace them with something fancy but not as extravagant as the original altar.

So, what phrases do we use to search for businesses like that?

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: wysiwyg
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:47 PM

CONTACT ME.

~S~

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 03:48 PM

"Church Fittings" comes up with a few interesting sites on Google, which might include some that are relevant, or that might lead to relevant ones.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 08:52 PM

My church's building burned in 1998, struck by lightning, six days before my daughter's wedding! (My now son-in-law and his father were/are volunteer firemen and answered the call. Hubby managed to get in some last minute quips, all good natured, about lengths he would go to in order to stop the wedding!)

All this to say...the church was originally built circa 1880's (that's old around here) and since it was in a historic district and various codes and laws had to be kept, rebuilding was fairly involved. There had to be structural experts as well as historical preservation experts to oversee the plans. The final result was a beautiful sanctuary, structurally more sound, which was rebuilt within the original brick walls. The pulpit area in now larger, but the pipes for the old organ are gone.

I was not involved in any of the planning...I run from things like that...but if you're interested I can get more info. PM me and I can send pictures of the interior and exterior. (URL)

One thing I remember is that we had to have new hymnals immediately, so the minister called up the publishing company. They asked, "What color, we have 10 colors." He was flabbergasted since he didn't even know what color the new sanctuary would be.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:41 PM

Find something unusual, peculiar, unique, historical, castrophofic, AND then accentuate the positive....contact the STATE, the FEDS, the COUNTY, the U.N. (locate the lend a cow in Boswana program.)

Seek out grants, and pledges, and contributions. Make a goal and establish a slogan "all new gates in 2008!"

Make lists of your journeymen, countrymen, plumbers, carpenters, nannies, grannies, councilmen, and gentried-women.

In short....draw in ALL your resources.

Most visitors to Shakespeare's resting place in Stratford on Avon....do not FIRST marvel on the fee to view his slab-o-stone.....but instead, world-wide from Avon to Albany, from Berkshires to Boston, from Canterberry to Chicago, from Dingle to Dallas, (ad infinum and all the nations of the globe)

They ALL marvel over the the kneeling cushions. Needle-point, hand rendered, by members of the church - which are along the gauntlet towards the "sacred tomb."

Find a single, singularity....maximize.....and ask for contributions.

Europe and America are full of "dead churchs".....to live and breath, and exude life...the congregation must live, breath, dedicate, concecrate, hollow their own ground.....

Hiring an outside "gun-slinger" to do your dirty-work will only result in people expecting to "be serviced" and not a congregation "ready for service."

Your pastor needs to read "Nehamia" and focus on rebuilding the city and equiping the saints!

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 10:43 PM

The first part of my posting was satirical

The second part was intended literal

There is so much "confusion" within some threads....(and my peculiar voicings) I felt it should be clarified. (like butter)

Sincerely,

Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: Scoville
Date: 31 Aug 04 - 11:24 PM

We couldn't afford to build our own meeting house (church) so we ended up combining it with an art installation, so we could get grant money from art patrons. This put us somewhat at the mercy of the artist and the architects and designers involved. It caused a lot of controversy within the congregation and, although we do have our art site, we don't have the practical space we need to run the place efficiently.

Personally, I'd have settled for a prefab steel building or something that we could have finished out later. At the very least, we should have stood up more to the designers. Whoever you hire, stick to your guns.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: GUEST,Larry K
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 09:37 AM

There is a broup called the Interfaith council which was started by Rev Sally bingham in Berkley and has spread to other states.    The purpose of the group is to promote energy efficiency by making the churches more energy efficient and prmoting energy efficiency from the pulpit.   They believe the church has always been at the front of social issues, and feels the environment is the next big social issue.   IN Michigan, the Interfaith council is headed by Father Charles Morris in Wyandotte Michigan.   As a bonus, he is a folkie and we have gone to folk events together. You can find them on the web.   (miipl)   They may be a good source.

Subject: RE: BS: have you ever renovated your church?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 12:45 PM

I'm getting together lots of pictures for leeneia and trying to find a place to post them. I'm not putting the URL here because the pictures are very people-intensive and I'd rather not make them public. I'm also getting the names of the companies who restored the bell tower, encased the original bell, made the pews, recovered the altar chairs, etc., etc. Even though I'm in KY and she's in KS (or MO), we had to travel pretty far for some of these things.