children's music at folk festivals

Subject: children's music at folk festivals
From: black walnut
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 11:07 AM

We were at a big folk festival on the weekend. There were a lot of families with young children, and many activities provided for them during the daytime - crafts, play area, and a music tent. Every time I went to see what was going on in the children's area, the crafts and play area were full of children and their caregivers, despite the rainy weather, but only about 4 or 5 families were at the music tent. At some festivals I've been to, children's music draws large crowds and much enthusiasm, at others, not so much. Any ideas as to what might draw more families to a music tent at an outdoor festival?

~b.w.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: greg stephens
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 11:19 AM

I dont know what it was like physically in the music tents where you were. In my experience of playing at(mainly UK) festivals) there is generally a bit of dance space in front of the band, or maybe at the side or in the aisles, and kids get off on dancing to our music, along with some adults, and the rest of the adults sit in the chairs provided. If the accommodation provided for kids is basically seats, they will soon demand to be taken elsewhere for fun activities if they are provided somewhere else. I think if you encourage small kids to dance, they will go to the music tents. But they wont want to listen for that long if the music isnt danceable. Grownups(well, folk fans) like to sit for 40 minutes and listen to gentle songs in a tent on a summers afternoon. Little'uns mostly dont.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: black walnut
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 11:32 AM

Totally and absolutely, dancing room is wonderful when it's possible! I've been at some folk festivals, though, where there are rows of chairs set up and the chairs are filled with enthusiastic listeners (and wigglers and clappers and singalongers). At the festival this weekend, there was plenty of dancing room....the tent I was speaking of was simply a canopy over the stage, and the audience had the lawn in front. It was the same setup as for the adult workshops. The tent provided an area for the sound system, and a sun/rain cover for the musicians and their instruments.

Last year, I was at a large festival with a great reputation, down east (Canada - Maritimes). When Grammy award winners Cathy Fink and Marcy Marxer performed at the children's (indoor, with lots of dancing room) stage, there were only about 3 or 4 children in the audience. It was sad.

There must be other factors in play....a good host? good advertising in the festival programme? choice of acts? placement of tent compared to the adult venues? time slots? etc.?

~b.w.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 01 Sep 04 - 01:00 PM

You need more information.
The important question is: when there is a specific place for "children's" music who makes the decision to go there?
the rents? the kids?
These are two significantly different target audences so there are there are two separate questions.
If kids get to decide, what will attract them?
If parents make the decision, what will attract them?

In the parents make the decision, it might not be a case figuring out what will attract them but of figuring out what will not deter or annoy them. Clearly Cathy and Marcy draw adults. Were the adults there parents without children or were the kids left elsewhere so the adults could enjoy the show?

Because I am a geezer I will do the obligatory reminiscence. Back when my 30 something daughter was a kid, there were no activities for kids at the festivals my wife and I attended. She'd help us set up camp then we'd tell her when to show up for meals and turn her loose. Sometimes she'd show up at the stage or dance pavillion on her own. We never had a problem. She now reports that she loved those experiences.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: wysiwyg
Date: 02 Sep 04 - 12:35 PM

freefresh

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:44 AM

Hi do lots of children's sessions and usually have a reasonable turn out but its partly do to the advertising, a great part due to what they are offereing and the rest is down to personality and hard work!
Here are some things you need to consider

1. where abouts is the children's event and is it a creche type event where parents can leave kids or do they have to stay? If they have to stay then it is more difficult to get kids involved because parents want to do their own thing at festivals. I have done both sessions and if parents stay I dont allow them to sit back and be bored but drag them into helping ( usually kicking and screaming but they tend to enjoy it!)

2.The event organiser should be able to judge the group he/she has got and think on their feet if it looks like things are not of interest they should be able to quickly change to something else. If the kids have a good time word quickly spreads and the following day or year you have more

I run different types of workshop throughout the day at a weekend festival that kids can dip in and out of music, storytelling games craft and a have a go session where I n=bring loads of instruments along so the kids can just have a go at playing different things that usually are out of bounds because they are expensive instruments - flutes, clarinets, guitars, didgeridoos, whistles mandolins, violins, accordian, melodeon etc etc - the parents love this session as it gives them a chance to try out things too

AT whitby each year I also help run a whistle workshop for children and a clog dancing workshop for children. I take the real little ones aged from about 2 up to 7 and my partner takes the older ones this year I had up to 15 little ones learning whistle and we had roughly 10 little ones learning clog over all 30+ kids learning whistle and clog.

I think you need to look at how you measure success - if you only have 3 kids there and they enjoy it then it is a successful event!

sue

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:32 AM

As the owner/operator of a child who can't sit still for more than 12 seconds at a time, I second (third, whatever) the dancing room.

It also helps if the 'turn' doesn't ask the child to leave because they're "disturbing those who've paid [to see me]" when a) no-one else had complained and b) child associates said turn with a TV programme teaching schoolchildren how to do English Country Dancing..... You know who you are and I've never paid to see you since!

A tolerance from the rest of the audience would be appreciated too. After all, if they throw out families/children, how will they learn to behave or appreciate the music?

I agree with the coloured Rabbits, having the parents there can restrict the activity and the child can feel inhibited. At Towersey, Shooting Roots (or whoever it was) had the children rolling round in the mud in bin bags - how many parents would agree to that happening?!
How many parents would join in?

LTS

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Grab
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:39 AM

LtS, kids dancing is fine. I don't think anyone would object to that - everyone I've seen has been thoroughly amused by the kids who do it (there always seems to be one or two).

What I do object to is what happened during one concert at Broadstairs (note: evening concert, fairly expensive tickets, finishing past 10pm). A few kids whose parents were watching the concert were running up and down the central aisle. Then they started playing tag up and down the aisle, and shouting while they did it, as kids will do when they get excited. These kids had no interest in the music. Their parents had paid to see the gig, but so had everyone else, and none of us wanted these kids shouting in the aisles when we were trying to listen to the music.

Kids learning to behave is the responsibility of the parents. Their *parents* have the responsibility for telling them that dancing is good, but running up and down and shouting during the performance is bad. If the parents don't do that, the event staff have the responsibility for slinging said kids (and preferably parents too) out on their ear until their parents *have* taught them how to behave.

If the event is something organised specifically for kids, or something held on a bandstand somewhere public that's expected to draw a large family crowd, then fair enough. But at an evening concert with expensive tickets where most of the audience will be adults, I think it's fair to say that kids should either be there for the music or shouldn't be there at all. A concert is not a creche.

Graham.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:41 AM

Grab, totally agree nuff said

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 08:17 AM

Grab - for once I agree with GUEST - now all we need to do is persuade John Kirkpatrick of the same!

LTS

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 10:53 AM

I went to the Whitby Folk Week a couple of years ago, and one of my favorite performances was the daily children's concert, held about 5:30 PM. Many of the major performers did a set for the kids. It was a real kick to hear Cyril Tawney do children's songs with that wonderful twinkle in his eye. Janet Russell's children's concert was extraordinary (but then, I have a crush on Janet and think anything she does is extraordinary).
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Grab
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 12:59 PM

Joe, that sounds a great idea! We should be doing Whitby next year, so I look forward to that. Kid's music is a great place to get funny songs.

Graham.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 01:19 PM

I agree the distinction has to be made between children's and family events and main concerts My kids havent really grown up with folk music as I didnt start singing again until four years ago after a 20 year break but I expect them to behave in main concerts and they know what they can and cant do in concerts and singarounds. We took one of my daughters 6 year old friends with us to Warrick this year and my daughter told her the'rules' I didnt need to say a thing.

I always take books and crayons etc so that they have something to do if they dont like the concert and they do dance if they are allowed. I look at it this way they are the future and we need to encourage them and be tolerant and I think most people are.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Willa
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:15 PM

Joe
The event you went to is the Family show - every evening 6.30 - 9 and one of my favourites. All the guests I saw got the children involved in one way or another. Alistair Anderson was excellent - showing the children his concertina and pipes and encouraging them to try them. Keith Donnelly had them hooked!
I was rather sad to see one boy of about 6 playing computer games on a hand set the whole time- he never looked up even when he was eating, but then maybe some of the music penetrated.
I'm not sure that the guests are totally happy with the fact that people are eating during the performances.I think it's great; good food and good music together.

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: denise:^)
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 12:24 AM

I sometimes do children's music at festivals, and I agree with R&W Rabbit that 'advertising' is key!

I've done workshops where they've used the title/description I've given them, and had a nice group show up.

I've also done workshops where they describe my event as "singing." Well, who's going to come to that? Not many...

It's helpful if you can have ways for the children to actively participate.

:^)

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Bert
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:02 AM

If any of you are ever organizing a festival make sure that you hire Joe Offer to entertain the kids. He's just great!

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: s&r
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:37 AM

Children's entertainment needs aren't always what adults perceive. At Fylde we've had success in recent years by seeding a local youth centre with youngsters who play instruments - it fills rapidly with players and audience, with very little input from the older generations. The teenagers run most of it with a little organisational and publicity help.

For younger children we provide play sessions with minders, and visits from kids entertainers.

Some of our solutions are driven by our use of local licensed premises in a town festival; many won't/can't allow under fourteens.

Stu

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Eye Lander
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 04:25 AM

Keith Donnelly was very popular with the children at Bridgnorth

Subject: RE: children's music at folk festivals
From: Red and White Rabbit
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 06:43 AM

Keef is always popular wherever he entertains children I have also worked with Geoff Higginbottom who the kids like too