Hell: Is it fact or fiction?

Subject: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Dewey
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:42 AM

I am curious whether people at mudcat believe in Hell or Not?

I Know in the Old Testament it is mentioned only as Death. In the New, we hear of weeping wailing and nashing of teeth. Billy Graham calls, hell separation from God, The Devil Is Supposed to Be Cast Into a Lake of Fire, The Parable of the Rich man and Lazurus describes actual Hellfire, Even the Angels are not spared the judgement.

Do any of you believe in evil. I personal DO. Do any of you believe in a judgement, I personally do, but cannot say for certain that it would be the torturous eternal hell fire that does not end.

I am curious as to how Mudcatter's stand on this subject, I would guess most don't believe in the concept, and I bring the subject up not to advocate one way or the other, but merely out of sheir curiousity!As I have shot off my mouth on this subject one too many times already.

I know that practically every religion (not just the christian ones) has Hell as a viable concept, Is there a universal conscious reason for this!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Big Tim
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:51 AM

It's BS.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Little Robyn
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 02:52 AM

Hell is the name of a pizza parlour here in NZ!
My teenage daughter has just started working there!
Now I can tell her to go to hell and she isn't offended at all.
Robyn

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:02 AM

The Hell in Norway is fact - I've seen the pictures.

As for the Biblical Hell - ever been to an Essex shopping centre on a Saturday afternoon?

LTS

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Teresa
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:06 AM

LOL, Robyn! :)

Well, I don't believe in the archetypal hell with the weird demons and all of that. but I do think there is a state of being, or more than one, that is a place I would dread to be in.

Complete, total ignorance with no support, utterly alone.
T

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:28 AM

Of course it's fact, where do you think my wife came from ?

eric

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:21 AM

I do hate threads with my name in the title, they always make me nervous. And yes, I do believe that I exist (though there are some mornings it takes me a couple of minutes to reinstate that faith).

Wolfgang Hell

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:22 AM

eric...Your wife and my mother-in-law.

Shouldn't this be BS?

Mooh.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:26 AM

BS

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: curmudgeon
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 06:26 AM

Here's your accordion!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 07:53 AM

Metaphor of being.


A

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 08:14 AM

LOL Wolfgang. I remember a few years back when bbc had the resorces pages finding you in the photo section and wondering why you were "Wolfgang (Hell)". It took me a while to twig that rather than you indicating you were say a Satanist, that Hell was your surname!

What does your surname Hell mean in German? I'd guess it means something quite different to the English place of eternal torment for sinners.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 08:22 AM

still BS after all these items

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 08:27 AM

Course it is BS Russ. I don't however see that anyone commenting in the thread will change its current location. I'd expect this thread to drop down the other side of the line in it's own time when a volunteer spots it.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Michael
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 08:39 AM

I have a problem with the notion of 'Hellfire' etc, surely if you were condemed to 'Eternal Hellfire' you 'Hellcomfort'?

Mike

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: Joe_F
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 09:08 AM

"Hell" in German means "bright"; "Hoelle" means "hell".

Surely this thread belongs in the BS section.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 09:38 AM

Inside the mind of a schizophrenic
The loss of a child


Fact? Maybe not.

Real? I think so.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: GUEST,Bill D (playing with a different browser)
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 09:46 AM

Hell, and its many attractions

of COURSE they have a web site!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact of fiction?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 10:04 AM

Hell is real. It's right here.
Each of us makes his own.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 10:36 AM

HAving purused a lot of the promotional materials provided above for the lovely town of Hell, Michigan, I have come to the conclusion that hell exists right here on earth.

A

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 10:39 AM

Doh!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

I just realized what "super" stands for. It's an abbreviation for supercilious.


A

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:17 AM

Doh!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Amergin
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:26 AM

Of course it's real....that's where John's from....

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Alaska Mike
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:37 AM

My favorite image of Hell is a Gary Larson's "The Far Side" cartoon. It shows a fat guy standing before 2 doors, the first door says "Damned if you do", the second says "Damned if you don't". Standing right behind the guy is the devil poking him with a pitch fork and saying, "Come on, pick one or the other".

No, I don't believe Hell is real.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: s6k
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 12:11 PM

think about this.

it is said that when you go to hell... you are punished forever for living a sinful life.

well, if you have been "bad" then why would you be punished for it in hell? shouldnt the devil be rewarding those that have gone against god?

it sounds to me, like the devil is doing gods work by punishing bad people... shouldnt he reward bad people and punish god-believers?

its cacka-malla

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 12:16 PM

It's not fiction. Wolfgang really exists! :-) Yes, I know it's hard to believe, but he does.

I'll get back to this later, okay?

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:03 PM

Don't bother, Hawk, your first answer was perfect!

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Cluin
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:08 PM

Both.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: HuwG
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:39 PM

Hull and Halifax exist. Therefore, Hell must also exist.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Amos
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:44 PM

In the sense of being a place it is pure fantasy -- it is no more a place than Time is; one doesn't "go" there.

But one can work his own way into a hellacious condition.

He just has to practice enough lies.

A

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,Clint Keller
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 03:47 PM

Putting it in Christian terms, I cannot believe in a God of Love who would damn anyone eternally.

In practical terms, I'm with Mr Thoreau, who is supposed to have said on his deathbed to the preacher, "One world at a time."

clint

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Rapparee
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:45 PM

There's also Hell, Norway.

Idaho alone has Hell Creek, Hell Hole Creek, Hell Roaring Creek, Hell Roaring Lake, and Hell Diver Lake. Hell's Half Acre is about 20 miles from where I'm sitting.

Is it possible that, since Hell's topology seems to predominate in Idaho, Idaho is Hell???

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 04:56 PM

only southern idaho, rap.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:18 PM

How about Richard Hell and the Voidoids?

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Wolfgang
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:20 PM

Jon and Joe,

Joe's explanation is right and it is wrong. 'Hell' now means bright (in both senses of the word), but that's not where our family name comes from.

It is a Bavarian name and like so many German surnames is a placename. 'Hell' designated a very deep and narrow dale (just as in the middle ages the people pictured the entry to Hell). So Alois (to chose an old first name) Hell was Alois (to differentiate him from other Aloises) coming from a very deep and narrow dale. That means my surname is actually closely related to the English word Hell (though in a secular sense). We have similar surnames Hoelle and Hoell (both today meaning Hell).

But usually, when travelling in English speaking countries, I use Joe's explanation. It makes life easier for me.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,milk monitor
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:33 PM

It's location is fluid and today it is in Beslan. No words can describe the horrific pictures coming from there.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:43 PM

I'm with Mark Twain, when he said:

Heaven for climate; Hell for company!

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 05:45 PM

Fascinating explaination. Thanks Wolfgang.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: mack/misophist
Date: 03 Sep 04 - 11:48 PM

Hell is a city very much like Seville
                            Shaw

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: GUEST,GROK
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 12:14 AM

I will humbly attest that indeed they exist--heaven and hell that is--having visited both for varying degrees of eternity. The one is peaceful, calm and soothing; the other bears thinking about, if only as a recreational diversion from the reality only too available here on Earth.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Rustic Rebel
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 12:15 AM

I believe this thread should be back above the line. It could change all perspective.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 12:55 AM

"The Voidoids" was in my opinion the most brilliantly evocative punk band name of all time. It says so much about that whole state of mind!

I once nicknamed daylia's twin sons "Null and Void" back when they were at that teenage stage where you constantly insult your twin brother by calling him "gay" and so on...

They have since grown up and are no longer acting like Voidoids. Yippee!

Now, Hell. Okay. It's both fact AND fiction. Just depends which particular version of hell you're talking about. I tend to think that the fundamentalist view of a literal hell complete with devils, lakes of fire, and sinners suffering the tortures of the damned for all eternity is absolutely ridiculous. God would not create such a place, only a human being in a really twisted state of mind would dream it up.

However...there may be astral regions (not physical places) which resemble it somewhat. Some spiritual traditions suggest that there are many hells...those being various levels of spiritual reality which correspond to various disturbed states of mind. A soul would naturally tend to go to the level that was in resonance with that soul's state of mind. That isn't punishment. It's just the natural movement of an energy body into a spectrum that suits it, that's all.

Consider these examples: In actual physical life many people are irresistibly drawn to a place that I would describe as hellish...a seedy downtown bar full of drunks. Walk in. Look around. It's dark, gloomy, and smelly. The place stinks, in fact. The people there are often hostile, truculent, looking for an argument, potentially violent, depressed, or overexcited in a not very good way. They're mostly quite drunk and rather incoherent. They are wasting their time, ruining their health, and quite possibly endangering the health of others.

That is a place that I perceive as hell, but its patrons perceive it as "a good time". :-) Note how the individual mentality is naturally drawn toward its own energy resonant level.

Another such place is a casino. I consider casinos to be hellish. Their patrons consider them to be just fine.

Another such place is Walmart. This is a milder sort of hell, mostly devoted to greed and overconsumption divorced from reality. Again, its adherents see it as "a good time" or "a good opportunity".

And so it goes... :-)

So, I say that God doesn't punish anyone! People punish themselves through their own lack of awareness, their own self-hatred, their lack of confidence, and their various fears and weaknesses.

There are probably any number of Astral hells to which the soul can gravitate (just like there are any number of Earthly hells), but they only appear hellish from a higher perspective. One hell could look heavenly from another hell, and they could both look heavenly from yet another. And heaven? A heaven could look terrifying to someone more comfortable with his familiar chosen hell.

It's just a question of what you want.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: katlaughing
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 02:06 AM

In one episode from the Alfred Hitchcock tv series, Phyllis Diller played the nagging, whining, bitching wife of a downtrodden, beaten, stressed out man. I can't remember why he was sent to hell when he died, but it wasn't at all what he expected. He came to during his funeral and discovered he'd been damned to an eternity of listening to her, just as in life. And, he'd been so excited about dying and getting away from her. It was a nice little ironic twist, so Hitchcockian.

Wolfgang, thanks for the explanation of your name. Very interesting.

Rapaire, if you're only about 20 miles from Hell's Half Acre you must be in Wyoming!:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 03:15 AM

I checked heaven and hell in a concordance of the Revised Standard Version of the Bible. "Heaven" appears hundreds of times, but hell is referred to by name only 13 times in the New Testament and only twice (in the Book of Esdras) in the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament). It appears seven times in the Gospel of Matthew, three times in Mark, once in Luke; and once in the letter of James and once in 2 Peter. "Hell" is not mentioned at all in the Gospel or letters of John or the Book of Revelation, or in any of the letters attributed to Paul.

I've taught classes at church with a friend who teaches Humanities at a two-year college in Sacramento. She's a pretty good amateur theologian, and a darn tough Humanities professor. She teaches Dante's Inferno as part of her class, and he makes her students memorize the geography of Hell, as Dante describes it. She contends that the concept of Hell is mostly a product of Dante's writing, not of religious doctrine. I think she's right. I wonder how many fire-and brimstone preachers are aware of Dante's contribution to their sermon topics.

Personally, I can't say I ever paid much attention to Hell until I saw Elizabeth Hurley starring as the Devil in the movie Bedazzled. THAT caught my attention...

-Joe Offer-

P.S. the Hell's Half Acre I know is a lava flow, south and west of Idaho Falls (click). It's supposed to be full of rattlesnakes, so I bypassed the chance to go hiking there. I did see lots of antelope in the area.

P.P.S. I was sleeping when this thread was started, so I didn't get a chance to move it to the non-music section until morning. Am I forgiven?

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 04:02 AM

If born-again Christians make it to Heaven, that would be Hell for me.


Doug C

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:02 AM

If this is any comfort or help to people, I can only tell you this.

My wife died on an operating table for a few minutes. She said being dead was just like being asleep. Nothing special happens.

There is nothing to worry about.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't behave nicely.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Fiolar
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 05:42 AM

At school we learned that at the Last Judgement sinners would be condemned to Hell with these words - "Depart from Me ye cursed into everlasting fire, which was prepared for the Devil and his angels." Another theory is that Hell is a neverending sense of loss. Imagine if you can the pain of losing a loved one and then have that pain increased out of all proportion with no relief EVER.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 02:16 PM

Hell is a place with TV. TV everywhere. Nothing but TV in fact. And on that TV they are doing reruns of "Three's Company", "Gilligan's Island", and "The Beverley Hillbillies". Over and over again. Forever. And you can't turn it off.

Subject: RE: Hell: Is it fact or fiction?
From: fat B****rd
Date: 04 Sep 04 - 02:36 PM

I'm with Sartre on this one. "Hell is other people"
All the best from Grumpy fB.