Grayson & Whitter

Subject: Grayson & Whitter
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 11 Sep 04 - 11:15 PM

I mentioned Grayson & Whitter in the bluegrass thread, and it prompted me to get out my County CD of their music to hear it again. I realize that many people may not know their music... or if they do, they know it from a couple of songs on the Anthology Of American Folk Music. I was greatly entertained by the CD and amazed at how many songs they recorded that have become standards.

G.B. Grayson & Henry Whitter met at a fiddler's convention in Tennessee in 1927. When I listen to them play, it sounds like they have played music together since birth. Grayson sang and played fiddle and Whitter played guitar, keeping the rhythm solid and adding just enough bass runs to compliment the fiddle. Grayson also recorded just with his fiddle, which is remarkably difficult. Pete Stampfell of the Holy Modal Rounders used to do Omie Wise, just with fiddle in his pre-HMR days, and back when I used to play fiddle just to irritate the neighbor's dog, I quickly found out how hard it is to play fiddle and sing at the same time.

In addition to the many classic songs they recorded, including Banks of the Ohio, Tom Dooley, Little Maggie, Omie Wise and Handsome Molly,
Grayson also wrote Going Down The Lee Highway.

Bluegrass musicians? Naaah... just good ole boys.

Train 45 never ceases to make me laugh. "Where you goin' Henry? I'm going to Larrawhooper, Tennessee." After all these years of laughing at that line, I finally pulled out an Atlas to confirm what I suspected.

There is no Larrawhooper, Tennessee. Sure would like to go there, if it really existed. Maybe that's where Grayson & Whitter went when they died.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 01:22 AM

Hey, Jerry, thanks! I had not heard of them, but they sure sound like someone I should hear. I will look for their CD when I get some extra *mad* money.:-)

kat

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 02:19 AM

Jerry: me and Kate used to drive round UK and Europe gigging, or busking, and the Grayson and Whitter tape was always favourite travelling music. Totally brilliant stuff. (And certainly not bluegrass )

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: masato sakurai
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 03:14 AM

These are at Honkingduck:

"Little Maggie With A Dram-glass In Her Hand" : Grayson & Henry Whitter

"Where Are You Going, Alice?" : Grayson & Henry Whitter.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GUEST,Russ
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:27 AM

Jerry,

What you said.

Great musicians, great CD.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:42 AM

Thanks for the links, Masato. Great stuff!!

Thanks, again, Jerry. I love what I am listening to of them.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:10 AM

In looking around on honking duck, I see a playlist of old timey songs which Bob Dylan covered included Maggie with a Dram Glass in her Hand.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:23 AM

Now, I may be wrong on this, but I think in fact they were called Grayson and Whittier with an extra i.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:40 AM

Greg, the Old Time Police are going to get you! Henry Whitter, as the old umpire joke goes,has "only one I". The liner notes to County 3517 have about ten pages about Grayson and only a paragraph or so about Whitter. He made the first recording of "Wreck of the Old 97" issued in 1923, Vernon Dalhart covered it a year or so later, and it was Dalhart's record that became the big hit. WHitter's singing and guitar playing inspired Ernest Stoneman to start his own career-- "I know I can outsing Henry Whitter any time; if I couldn't I'd quit." (Ivan Tribe's "The Stonemans" p. 37). I think he did his best work with Grayson, much better than when he was on his own.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 11:50 AM

Pete Peterson: I'll take your word on this. The only recording I have has WhittIer on it, and ,as you do, I naturally assumed that was right. Subsequently I've seen the name printed both ways, so I've never really been sure. But, however you spell him name, I've been singing the Wreck of the Old 97 since I was 14, so I am profoundly grateful to him.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 12:28 PM

Also in the Honking Duck - G B Grayson & Henry Whitter
Barnyard Serenade
Joking Henry

And also
Greysen Thomas & Will Lotty ( Greyson & Whitter )
Nobody's Darling

Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GUEST,Hootenanny
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 12:33 PM

Definitely Whitter (no second i), some of his relatives still live in the Galax/Fries area of south western Virginia, and at Fries there is a historical marker in honour of various musicians from that mill town, Whitter,Ernest Stoneman and Kelly Harrell included. No mention of Glenn Neaves although he came along a little later and played at the ceremony when the marker was first put up. Kilby Snow of course was another Fries man with an unusual style on the autoharp. Perhaps some folks haven't heard of him either. Definitely worth looking out for, some nice video "footage" is available. The were a number of musicians from Fries, many excellent and unsung, Raymond Swinney for example who used to live "up behind the old theatre" was an excellent three finger banjo picker.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 12:37 PM

Also in Honking Duck
Henry Whitter
Little Brown Jug
Lonesome Road Blues
The Dollar & The Devil
Western Country
Where Have You Been So Long?
Or alternatively find them all linked from this page
Whitter, Henry
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 05:25 PM

Very kewl, guys! And, here I thought maybe they were brothers, listed as "Grayson and Henry Whitter" as my sister's new grandson is named Grayson. Thanks for all of the info and links.

kat

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: greg stephens
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 06:01 PM

Well, I've done a check, and I am by no means alone in the mis(?)apprehension that it is spelt Whittier. I have just done a search
Results:
Grayson and Whitter 656 hits
Grayson and Whittier 2160 hits
I may be wrong, but I'm in good company.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GUEST,Pete Peterson
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:49 PM

Well, I was there in that good company with you, always mispronounced it and misspelled it, but was brought to the light by friends.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Nerd
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 08:53 PM

All the recordings I have of these guys are under "Grayson and Whittier."

BTW, Gilliam Banmon Grayson was, I believe, a great-nephew of the Major Grayson who helped to catch Tom Dooley. When they sang that song it was rather close to home!

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 09:01 PM

Count me in for Whittier. That's the way I saw it spelled for a long time. Kinda like seeing Roosevelt Graves (who recorded several great gospel and blues tracks with his brother) spelled Rooseveldt. I think that was his African cousin.

Folkies canet spell


Jerriy

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Nerd
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:14 PM

I'm gonna have to flip-flop on the spelling. I checked the County CD and it is indeed "Whitter." I definitely trust Joe Wilson, who wrote those notes, to get his story straight. So Whitter it is!

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: 12-stringer
Date: 12 Sep 04 - 10:42 PM

A) Grayson's destination in "Train 45" is LAUREL BLOOMERY, Tennessee. It sounds almost as silly a name as "Larrawhoomper," but it actually is on the map, and this was G B's place of residence at the time he and Henry worked together.

B) See Henry's c1931 self-published song pamphlet, Familiar Folk Songs As Sung by Henry Whitter for the correct spelling of his name. Dave Freeman, at County, sold me one of these for $2 or $3, out of a newly-discovered stash of the pamphlets, back about 1970.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: biglappy
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 02:14 AM

Incidentally, Laurel Bloomery still has a lovely fiddler's convention. Elizabeth and Sandy sang there a couple of weeks ago. A wonderful green spot by the old mill on the creek, good food, nice folks. Cheap camping too. They have a great stage setup for good weather and bad. If you are a little turned off by the "state fair" tone of the bigger conventions, you ought to try Laurel Bloomery the 4th Weekend in August.

Benton Flippen and Ed Michael (two of the best, if perhaps a little past their best years) played a twin fiddle set-- a treasured memory for me.

The Roan Mountain Hilltoppers come every year.

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 08:19 AM

Laurel Bloomery? Just put the CD on and listened carefully. With a little imagination, I can hear Grayson say Laurel Bloomery. Their comments are a little bit lost below the fiddle.

I still like to think of Grayson as going to Larrawhooper, though?

Jerry

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 02:05 PM

The complete recorded works of Grayson and Whitter is available on Document. DOCD-8054 and DOCD-8055. The first CD has 22 tracks and the second has 14 more, plus seven tracks of Robinette & Moore from 1929.

All of the songs that Jerry listed are contained in this collection with the exception of Banks of the Ohio.

Jerry, could you mean On the Banks of Old Tennessee? Or is the "Complete Recorded Works" claim incorrect?

-Greg

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GLoux
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 05:02 PM

With regard to their version of Tom Dooley, the notes to the Grayson & Whitter Document CDs are written by Ray Parker and he states about G.B. Grayson,

"Although not written by him, his recording of "Tom Dooley" was the first. Grayson's uncle, Colonel James Grayson, a Union veteran, led the posse which captured Tom Dula for Laura Foster's murder. Caught at Doe Valley Tennessee, he was returned to North Carolina where the stabbing occurred and tried and hanged for it."

The liner notes start out with:

"Gillam Bannom Grayson was the youngest of 3 brothers and 2 sisters born to Benjamin Carrol and Martha Jane Grayson on November 11th 1887. They were living in Grayson, Ashe County, North Carolina and later moved to Laurel Bloomery, Johnson County, Tennessee where he spent all his adult life..."

-Greg

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: greg stephens
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 06:03 PM

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: Jerry Rasmussen
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 07:08 PM

Edward A. Guest:

Sloppiness on my part. I was looking throug the liner notes of the CD, and the referred to the song as The Banks Of The Ohio. It was recorded as On The Banks Of The Tennessee.

Just a personal preference. I was delighted to get the County CD. Document is an amazing label and they've preserved an enormous amount of music that would not have been preserved in this country. That said, I find the sound quality of their CDs is often so bad that while I am thankful that they re-issued the song, I don't find it pleasant to list to. I don't mind a little surface noise, and don't like old recordings cleaned up and stereo-ized. But, I appreciate the cleaning up that other labels do that makes the music more listenable to me (and probably much more like the group sounded "live."

Just a personal preference. The sound on the County CD is very good.

Jerry

Subject: RE: Grayson & Whitter
From: GLoux
Date: 13 Sep 04 - 10:23 PM

The "Guest" above was the un-cookified me...sorry if I annoyed anyone (read: Jerry) with that post...I was honestly concerned if I now had some other complaint with Document...hence my raising the concern of "Banks of the Ohio" being on the County release, when I had the "Complete Recorded Works" from Document.

I agree completely with Jerry's, shall I say, "lack of enthusiasm" for the sound quality of CDs put out by Document. On the other hand, I could not resist getting access to the other un-issued recordings/test pressings of Grayson & Whitter's recordings. Perhaps some enterprising individual (not in the US) could take each of the Document releases and apply noise reduction techniques/software and reissue them on a "Better Than Document" label...

I am one of Dave Freeman's/County Records/Sales biggest fans...Jerry's is more than just a personal preference, IMHO, it is a prevailing consensus. I think that Kerry Blech has complained about Document's lack of concern about applying readily available noise-reduction technology to the treasure trove of recordings Document is putting out in just about every review of a Document recording he's done for the Old Time Herald, and I think he may have authored just about every review of a Document CD published by that magazine...to the point of sounding like a broken record...(pun intended)

By the way, On The Banks Of Old Tennessee is a great song...Dave Howard (Connecticut) does a great version of it...

-Greg