BS: Why do the rich love Bush?

Subject: BS: Why do the rich love Dubya?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 08:32 PM

?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: emjay
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 08:34 PM

Tax cuts?

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 08:47 PM

emjay, thank you. I knew there was a reason. I just couldn't recall what it was.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 08:52 PM

Awwww, ain't got nuthin' to do with them tax cuts... It's because the rich are pro-life. Actually they didhn't even want the tax cuts as long as Bush kept gay marriges outta the schools and flag burnin' restricted to after dark... 'Er somethin' like that... But, rest assured, it ain't got one thing to do about money... No sir, not 'bout money...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Peace
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM

I didn't think so either, Bobert. But emjay kinda hinted it might be. Now, I am really curious.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 09:17 PM

habit

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 09:33 PM

This is what margaret Thatcher used to call the politics of envy.

You must never diminish personal choice.

particlarly the choice of the rich to shit all over us.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: GUEST,peedeecee
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 09:35 PM

Easy. Because Bush loves the rich. Loves corporations, loves those at the top, loves to give the already well-off tax breaks, environmental breaks, whatever. Will work to promote the increased well-being of the wealthy, particularly the corporate wealthy.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 09:46 PM

Exactly. And he is one of them, after all. The rich must band together for mutual protection in these perilous times.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: musicmick
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 10:41 PM

IT is cheap and easy to say that Bush is favored by the wealthy because he advocates tax cuts and "traditional values". It is cheap, easy and, probably, accurate but it doesn't explain why he has enough general support to be reelected. There are not enough rich votes to elect a president. He must have a hell of a lot of middle class and lower class votes too. Saying that the Republicans are the party of the privilaged hasn't helped the Democrats very much. Unless and until the Democrats are willing to offer a truly substinative alternative, they will continue to be the minority party with a registered majority.
The utter failure of the left to sell their programs to the American public is appaling. We cringe and cower and hide behind the "anyone but Bush" banner and expect that this pathetic substitute for policy will sway the populace. It is time to recognise that we were betrayed, as usual, by the Party "mavens" who trotted out the usual acceptable, indefinable and malable list of candidates and offered us our choice of faceless faces. You may be sure that, no matter who wins in November, progressive ideas will be brushed aside and status will be quo.
Those of us who indentify ourselves as liberals should have insisted that the Democrats nominate a candidate who represented our positions or we would withhold our support. And don't tell me that anyone would be better than Bush. That's not the point. We are not served by replacing one establishment syncophant with another and another and another.
We know why the rich favor the Republicans. That's not the problem.
We had better think about why so many others vote with them. We have to give them a real and vibrant choice. We have to say that the war in Iraq is senseless and should be ended immediately. (Kerry's 4 year plan makes his critisism empty and hypocritical. If it is wrong, why the hell should we keep doing it for another 4 years?) We have to insist on single payer national health care, not some subsidised hybrid. We have to define our core values and work for their realizations instead of allowing ourselves to be idealogically balkanized.

    Mike Miller

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Bobert
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 11:18 PM

Hey, I still got my Dean bumper sticker on my ol' Toyoter....

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: musicmick
Date: 02 Oct 04 - 11:33 PM

Well, Bobert, if we vote for Kerry, it's not going to make much difference what our car bumpers say. It's time to stand up for our beliefs with something other than craven compromise. WE must stop allowing the power brokers of both parties free reign. They don't give a damn who wins the election. They always win and we let them.
They have demonized organized labor and we let them. They have redefined liberalism and we let them. They have laid claim to moderation and we let them. We will never be in a position of influence until we stop supporting candidates who are not representative of our values. I, for one, am insulted to be identified with this empty suit. (I would imagine that any rational conservative would be as insulted to support that incompitant incumbant).

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: emjay
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 07:10 PM

Well, musicmic, I've thought a lot about what you wrote and and there is no easy answer. Most of us who respond with flippant comments probably have deeply held beliefs, too many to enter in a quick response. And we won't all agree. I was mentally listing issues on which liberals will not agree. Having spent time working with platform and resolutions committees in state party conventions, I know how deeply felt many differing opinions can be.
I recognize the inordinate power the big corporations have in our government, how much more likely they are to be heard, than I am, but for the most part, I know that in a Democratic administration there is hope for a voice.
There is the matter of supreme court appointments. While I remember that Warren of the Warren court came out of a Republican administration, and David Souter who currently occupies a seat (and thank goodness he is there) was also a Republican appointment. So, too, were Scalia and Thomas. I would rather have John Kerry making the next appointments than George W. Bush.
I would never disagree though, that our public as a whole is sadly in need of education. Most don't understand anything about labor unions, public education, government regulations affecting health and safety, the separation of church and state, the right to free speech.
So when words fail me, I say vote for Kerry -- or anybody but Bush.
This is a folk music site. I was through a lifetime of listening to folk music, loving it, learning it, singing it, that I had to become a liberal, so for me at least, there is a strong tie between this political thread and folk music.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: michaelr
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 08:44 PM

Musicmic is right -- there aren't enough rich to come up with the votes to elect Bush. That's where the media come in (which are owned by the rich) to spread disinformation, lies and nonsense, and boggle the minds of ---




THE MORON MAJORITY!




Even if Kerry makes it, it's all over, folks. The American Dream is a nightmare, and democracy is finished. Weep about it, or arm yourselves, because they're coming for you (us).

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 08:48 PM

A friend of mine who collects guns--fires them on a rifle range, both rifles and pistols--asked a very simple question when Canadians were told they had to register any firearms they owned: "After I register my guns, what are you going to do that I don't like?" I have pondered that question for quite sometime now. It's a very good question.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Peace
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 08:54 PM

And for people who think everything's alright, ask your Senator or House of Reps representative what Project Cloverleaf was (is). Or ask your FBI what's with the three minute difference in times to do with Flight 93. Or can you please see the 12 surveillance tapes from the Oklahoma City bombing. Or, or, or. You are gonna be met with something that resembles a strange silence. G'luck.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 09:41 PM

The trouble is, musicmic, you can't get the candidates you want to vote for nominated by either major party, because the two major parties AND the media are both owned and run by the very people who will make sure you don't get those candidates.

It's not a democracy any more. I frankly don't know what you can do about it at this point, except manage your own private life in the best way possible and make do with the fact that you live in a $y$tem that has disenfranchised and robbed its people...and sent them overseas to kill and die for absolutely nothing true or worthwhile.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: musicmick
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 10:07 PM

michaelr, it is a poor worker who blames his tools and a poor teacher who blames his pupil. If we have failed to present out ideas in convincing ways, perhaps it is our methods. Surely, bland acceptance of whoever the Democrats throw at us has not advanced the principles of liberalism. You can't believe that the Democrats will ever nominate a true progressive as long as they are dependant on the establishment for support. Our only power is the vote and, if we waste it again on the latest middle of the road "acceptable" puppet du jour, we have only ourselves to blame. The way to achieve our goals is to specify them and to back a candidate who openly advocates them. I'm not talking about World Socialism, here. I'm talking about real, salable issues like national health care, election reform, ending a senseless and impractical war immediately.
We have seen candidates run on these issues and win. Harrison Woford went to the Senate on the single issue of national health. Clinton won his first election with a campaign promise to end the ban on gays in the military. Why do we have so little faith in our message? Why do we have so little faith in the American people? I say, "Screw the pundits, full steam ahead".

                MIke Miller

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: dianavan
Date: 03 Oct 04 - 11:52 PM

The rich love Bush because they think he will protect the wealth to which they think they are entitled. They think their wealth makes them superior.

Above all, they do not want to have to take care of themselves because others have been taking care of them for so long. They wouldn't know where to begin. I think thats why so many committed suicide during the depression.

Oh, my! Do my own laundry? Wash dishes? Clean the toilet? Cook?

The rich love law and order. Bush will protect them from us.

d

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 07:07 PM

Musicmic -- you'll get no argument from me on the points you make, except that I believe that a majority of Americans can't be bothered to concern themselves with complicated issues and instead go for the soundbites and easy answers.

I'd gladly vote for Kucinich or Nader... if it wasn't so clear to me that Bush would profit from such a vote. This time around, it has to be Anyone But Bush. After Nov. 3, we'll start hounding the Dems again.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: musicmick
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 09:26 PM

Frere Michael, it's always next time and next time. Can't you see that the powers that be will keep on nominating nobodies as long as we keep voting for them? They have succeeded in convincing you, once again, that your vote is theirs to do with as they will. When will we understand that Bush and Kerry are just bobble head dolls? Are you so terrified by another Bush term that you would sacrifice your 2004 opportunity to cast your vote for yourself and your ideals? Things won't change until we make them change. It is not just the conservatives that are being duped. You have bought into the "experts" hogwash, too. For God's sake, if we don't stand up for our principles, who will? Refusal of the left to support a less than couragious champion of social progress will send a message that the Democratic bigwigs will hear. Then, we might get some action.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: michaelr
Date: 04 Oct 04 - 10:15 PM

"Are you so terrified by another Bush term ...?"

Yes, I am. I can't think of anything that scares me more. Do you really want to take the chance of letting the bastard do EVEN MORE damage than he has in his first term?

I'm not sure why you're singling me out in this debate which has been raging for a year or longer -- after all, I began my first post with "Musicmic is right" and my second with "You won't get any argument from me" -- but no, I haven't been duped, nor am I buying any porcine laundry. I'm well familiar with both sides of the argument, and I quite agree with you in principle.

I don't, however, share your hope that the Democratic Party will someday move to anything resembling a progressive platform. The European example shows that the Greens are the way to go, IMO.

Cheers,
Michael

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: musicmick
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 01:14 AM

We single out because we love.
No, seriously, I didn't mean that you are the poster boy of dupedom.
In fact, I think that supporting another party like the Green is a wonderful idea. I also know that the Democrats have more money, power and influence than the Green Party and I think that the left can wield the same kind of influence with the Democrats as the right does with the Republicans. I opine that liberal goals are more attainable by shifting the Democrats to the left and that shift ain't gonna happen if we keep voting for their candidates.

Subject: RE: BS: Why do the rich love Bush?
From: Peace
Date: 05 Oct 04 - 08:23 PM

Bobert's been saying this for months, as a by the way.