BS: is it a sin not to vote?

Subject: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: red_clay
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 09:29 PM

Guest Commentary
Is It a Sin Not to Vote?

By Tim Wildmon
President, American Family Association
October 18, 2004

(AgapePress) - Are you morally obligated to exercise your right to vote? That is, is it a sin not to do so? Of course, I am posing this question to those of you who actually believe in the Christian concept of sin in the first place. Sin, as defined in the Bible, is disobeying God's commandments. Interesting question, isn't it?

On November 2, we Americans will once again go to the polls to decide who will lead us in government. We will elect men and women to local, state and national offices who will make decisions for us and our families. They will pass laws we will have to abide by. They will make choices that will set the tone for our community and our nation. They will decide what is good and what is bad public policy.

In short, those we elect will begin to impose their collective morality on us. Despite what you have been told, this is why we have government–to promote good and to restrain evil. But it is how we as a society define "good" and "evil" that makes all the difference in the world.

Ever wonder why we have give citizens tax deductions for financial contributions to churches and charities? Why? Because charities and churches do "good" work that benefit individual citizens and the greater community and the government wants to encourage that.

Ever wonder why we make citizens pay fines when they are ticketed for breaking the speed limit? Why? Because we understand that speed kills–which is "bad"–because Americans value human life. So when someone speeds he or she is putting lives at risk and therefore the government wants to discourage that behavior. So we have jails and we have fines to deter such activity.

The two previous paragraphs describe in simple terms that governments do promote morality. And "we the people" decide who will make the moral judgements for us.

Now, obviously, most of the day to day work of government is mundane. Routine. Without great moral consequences. The Bible does not speak to the need to fill a pot hole for instance. Well, on second thought, maybe it does. Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, says the Scripture. If the pot hole were on my street, I would want the government to fix it. Anyway, you get the point.

I am one that believes God formed the United States of America for His purposes. I believe in a providential view of history. And if you study the life of our country, it is clear that God has used certain people for certain task to help our country become a great nation. A great nation that has--for the most part--championed good. We have championed causes that have been consistent with a Biblical world view. Freedom. Liberty. Fighting oppression and against those who wish to dominate those who are weaker than they through military force or terrorism. And if you had take one man who best represents God's hand on America over our 227 year history, to me, it would have to be George Washington.

Washington -- what an incredible life this man lived!

As we look to November 2–let me remind you of what the Father of our nation said in his famous Farewell Address on September 17, 1796. Washington had served two terms and did not wish to serve a third although he could have been President as long as wished because of his immense popularity. Here is a small, but poignant, part of that address to the country.

"Of all the dispositions and habits which lead to political prosperity, religion and morality are indispensable supports. In vain would that man claim the tribute of patriotism who should labor to subvert these great pillars of human happiness, these firmest props of the duties of men and citizens. The mere politician, equally with the pious man, ought to respect and to cherish them. A volume could not trace all their connections with private and public felicity. Let it simply be asked: Where is the security for property, for reputation, for life, if the sense of religious obligation desert the oaths which are the instruments of investigation in courts of justice? And let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Whatever may be conceded to the influence of refined education on minds of peculiar structure, reason and experience both forbid us to expect that national morality can prevail in exclusion of religious principle."



Is it a sin not to vote? James 4:17 says, "Anyone then, who knows the good he ought to do and doesn't do it, sins."

On November 2, go vote your morality.

© 2004 AgapePress all rights reserved.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Amos
Date: 19 Oct 04 - 10:25 PM

Bravo, Red-Clay --

I am assured then, that you will be voting against the incumbent in the Presidential election, given that he has violated more commandments and directives in the Bible than his opponent.

A

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: DougR
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 01:39 AM

Uh, now you are an expert on the violation of the commandments, right Amos? Care to enumerate the ones GWB has violated? I should think you would be able to tick them off effortlessly.

DougR

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 04:44 AM

"I am one that believes God formed the United States of America for His purposes."

Mmmm.... I get it.... Now, that's a statement of a truly enlightened person. Must listen to Tim Wildmon more closely.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Georgiansilver
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 05:08 AM

God gave man freewill to chose his path..including how and who he chooses to be part of the Government of whichever country.
Christians are called to pray that whoever is in Authority makes the correct decisions.
Whether I , as a Christian, choose to vote is up to me and it is not a sin if I don't. I vote or not vote as I feel led by the Lord.
Best wishes.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:02 AM

"I am one that believes God formed the United States of America for His purposes."

Any would this be any less so of any other country? And what kind of purpose? There are all kinds of purposes:

"God made the wicked Grocer
For a mystery and a sign
That men might shun the awful shops
And go to inns to dine..."

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 07:35 AM

Spoiling your vote or consciously abstaining can be a perfectly valid and moral way of carrying out our duty of responsibility towards our community, but that such a duty does exist seems clear to me. The same duty that means, for example, that as workers we ought to belong to our Trade Union, and play a part in its activities.

"God gave man freewill to chose his path. I think there's a fallacy in the conclusion which people often draw from that. Freedom to choose a path does not mean that all paths are equally moral. It means it our responsibility to take those choices, even though they may be wrong choices. When pre-war Germans followed Hitler, they were exercising freewill.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Rapparee
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 08:45 AM

From the Catechism of the Catholic Church (who better to know about sin?):

Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one's country. (Paragraph 2240)

It goes on:

2242 The citizen is obliged in conscience not to follow the directives of civil authorities when they are contrary to the demands of the moral order, to the fundamental rights of persons or the teachings of the Gospel. Refusing obedience to civil authorities, when their demands are contrary to those of an upright conscience, finds its justification in the distinction between serving God and serving the political community. "Render therefore to Caesar the things that are Caesar's, and to God the things that are God's."   

2243 Armed resistance to oppression by political authority is not legitimate, unless all the following conditions are met: 1) there is certain, grave, and prolonged violation of fundamental rights; 2) all other means of redress have been exhausted; 3) such resistance will not provoke worse disorders; 4) there is well-founded hope of success; and 5) it is impossible reasonably to foresee any better solution.

Ain't this inneresting???

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Amos
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 09:42 AM

Hopping Jaysus, wot a crapacious series of folderols!!

A

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: JennyO
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:14 AM

In Australia, it might as well be a sin, because it is illegal. I was amazed to find that after missing out on voting in a local election some time ago, that not only is voting compulsory, but if you do not pay the fine, your drivers licence is cancelled until you do pay it - to the State Debt Recovery Office. I found this out because the fine notices had gone astray when I moved last year, and the first thing I got was a letter with big black writing "Notice of suspension of Driver's Licence" - and it didn't even say what it was for. I had to ring up to find that out. Chilling indeed! Sometimes I have real trouble remembering that I don't live in a police state!

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 10:19 AM

It might be compulsory to cast a vote, but they can't make it compulsory to vote for anyone. Unless they find some way to stip people "spoiling their vote" with these electronic voting machines.

That expression "spoiling your vote" is a misnomer. People aren't spoiling their votes, they are confirming that they are intentionally abstaining, which is a very different thing.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Jim McLean
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:00 PM

We have a moral obligation to vote. There has been a tremendous fight over the years to enable us to have a vote. My problem is that I don't know any more for whom I should vote. As a socialist I can't vote Conservative or Liberal (I live in England, there are other alternatives in the other countries of the UK) and my wife suggests the Green Party. I'm afraid I shall stay at home on polling day and cry into my beer!

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:10 PM

Why stay at home when you can go in and write what you think on the polling form? They read those things very closely.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Bobert
Date: 20 Oct 04 - 06:40 PM

Oh, I am delighted to be told that God is on our side. Sure makes it easier to deal with all the folks around the world that the US is killing. Sho nuff does...

But actually I am reminded of one of Paul's letters to Timothy:

"But you must realize that in the last days the times will be full of danger. Men will become utterly self centered, greedy for money, full of big words. The will be proud and contemptuous, without any regard for what their parents taught them. They will be utterly lacking ingratitude, purity and normal human affections. The will be men of unscrupulous speech and have no control of themselves. They will be passionate and unprinciples, treacherous, self willed and cincieted, loving all the time what gives them pleasureinstead of loving God. THEY WILL MAINTAIN A FACADE OF RELIGION, BUT THEIR CONDUCT WILL DENY ITS VALIDITY. You must keep clear of people like this."

(2nd Timothy; 3, 1-5)

So tell me one more time why it is a sin not to vote when the choice is between two individuals who Paul is talking about...

Bobert

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: grumpy al
Date: 21 Oct 04 - 02:27 PM

IT AINT A SIN, but if you dont vote you got no right to moan about who wins!

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: Mrrzy
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:33 AM

It is a DUTY to vote, certainly.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 01:38 PM

I believe I have a moral obligation to use the vote that a large number of women went to such pains to make sure I have. Consequently, I always turn out to the polling station. However, when faced by the choices (or lack of them) that I usually am, I then have a right not to vote for anyone, just for the sake of voting. How can I morally cast a vote for one party when I believe them all to be a load of rubbish?

As far as the religious aspect and 'sin' goes, fortunately, my religion leaves it to me to decide what I do....we have one 'sin' only....don't hurt anyone. Me not voting doesn't hurt anyone, so I can vote if I want to, or not if I don't; the responsibility and the choice are entirely mine....thank the Godess.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: vega
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 08:20 PM

MSBLynn - your vote or not to vote - can hurt someone - a soldier, a family, or an whole nation. Kerry & Bush have 2 very different plans on how to handle situation - And depending on who wins can mean a world of difference literally.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 22 Oct 04 - 09:32 PM

MSBLynne - so start working to replace 'first past the post' voting with a better system. It's the main reason middle of the road candidates can't get in easily in the USA. In the meantime, mostly vote against the encumbent - it annoys them no end.

Subject: RE: BS: is it a sin not to vote?
From: MBSLynne
Date: 23 Oct 04 - 06:51 AM

vega, I'm in England, not US so the issues are slightly different...we just have a President's A--hole licker as leader, not a warmonger in his own right. Our system of voting and government are also different from yours. while my one, single vote is, of course, important, as is everyone's, also, my one, single vote is not going to send any soldiers off to die or actually have any effect on anything...on it's own. The fact remains that I believe whoever I vote for, in this country we end up with the same thing and mostly it's a thing I don't want, so how can I vote for anyone?

Don't know what I'm doing on this thread anyway...I don't believe in talking politics. My politics are usually kept to myself.

Love Lynne