 sj |
||
|
||
BS: Not just a lunar eclipse
|
|
|
Subject: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Clazza Date: 27 Oct 04 - 05:33 PM This week sees a far rarer celestial event in addition to the lunar eclipse. There is also a Grand Quintile where five planets draw out a pentagram in the sky, the Moon, just after the eclipse, is the final arm in the star. A friend in New York has asked me to pass on the following message to as many people as possible so I hope you don't mind me posting it here. If you want more astrological info, please check out my website http://www.clairechandler.com as it's posted there rather than clogging up the forum. thanks Meditation/Prayer vigil for US Presidential Election 2004 This is a plea from a New Yorker to the rest of America and the Planet. On September 11, 2001 and in the dark days that followed, you sent us tremendous support through your prayer vigils and meditations and positive thinking. All of us here felt the power of your spiritual support. Thank you. There is a very important article, "Without a Doubt", by Ronald Suskind (senior national affairs reporter for the Wall Street Journal 1993-2000) in the NYTimes magazine of 10-17-04 ( www.nytimes.com). It is important not only for its great potential to motivate voters to go to the polls but for another equally important tactical point. I believe this very close election will be won by the power of prayer. Bush has a extensive army of evangelical Christian fundamentalists who pray deeply and regularly for him. Kerry has not to date inspired a similar kind of prayer community around him, perhaps because he appeals more to the 'reality-based' voter than the faith-possessed. We can change that. I know that there are many of you out there in the world who would give a great deal to vote in this election but cannot because you are citizens of other countries. Others of you are Americans who live in states that are not considered decisive to winning this 2004 Presidential Election. You may be thinking there is not much you can do to influence the course of this election. On the contrary, you can make a difference. This is the plea: YOU can use the incredible power of prayer and focused meditation and positive thinking to effect change in the real world. Here is the proposal: A deep and focused meditation/prayer vigil for seven days starting October 28 through November 3. There are many, many more of us all over this beautiful green Earth, (many millions and millions!) who feel strongly about having a new President in the White House than there are those who want four more years of the same. There is a powerful strength in numbers in prayer, and this is one thing that everyone on this magnificent Planet can do. Bush and his faithful do NOT have a monopoly on God or prayer. Thank you and may God bless us all. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 04 - 06:03 PM A fundie is a fundie, regardless of whether they are voting Republican or Democrat. Keep prayers out politics. Vote with your brains, please. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Bill D Date: 27 Oct 04 - 06:23 PM indeed...view the planets and the moon and appreciate their beauty..etc...but astrological superstition should have no place in affecting the election, your income, or the size of Rutabagas in Idaho... vote with your brains |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 04 - 06:37 PM Nor should Xtian superstitition. Vote with your brains. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Sorcha Date: 27 Oct 04 - 07:44 PM Not another one please.....brains come to the front. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 27 Oct 04 - 07:47 PM Or, if engaging in prayer on this issue, instead of asking for any specific outcomes, asking instead for "whatever is to the highest good of all concerned". (Whatever that might be.) Can't go too far wrong with that one. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Oct 04 - 07:49 PM Twilight Zone theme song in the background. . . Looks like "Clazza" has joined Mudcat only to promote moonbeams (not to be confused with Moonglow, who has a good head on her shoulders and would NEVER vote without using her brain!) SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 27 Oct 04 - 08:11 PM Guess what, guys. There are a lot of people for whom spiritual considerations are going to be forefront in their minds when they vote. Ridiculing them isn't going to change that. It just makes the one doing the ridiculing look a bit petty. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 27 Oct 04 - 08:32 PM This is a SECULAR nation, and I for one am sick to death of guilt-tripping plays like yours above, CarolC. I don't give a damn how the "spiritual" people in this country feel about it. If they want to pray to their false idols while casting their votes, just make sure they are silent about it in the voting booth, and keep it the hell out of the polling place. I didn't ridicule anyone. I stated the bleeding obvious. Anyone who needs religion to walk into the voting booth shouldn't be voting to begin with. Voting isn't a religious act, it is a secular political act. Secular. Got it? Secular. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Burke Date: 27 Oct 04 - 09:09 PM My values are informed by my religious faith. My values influence how I vote. I cannot leave my faith outside the ballot box. I do not find that either political party matches my conclusions completely so I pick my most important issues. I also look for a realistic assessment of greatest good & least harm. I welcome the prayers of the rest of the world that we may choose our president wisely & in accordance with God's will for the our nation and the world. I would like those prayers to not make an assumption as to who that person is. The idea that Bush or Kerry supporters could out-pray each other is offensive. I do like the quote from Lincoln that has been floating around. In some meeting someone said something to the effect that they should pray for God to be on their side. Linclon's reply was to pray, rather that they be on God's side. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Sorcha Date: 27 Oct 04 - 09:20 PM I'll just be glad when Nov 2 is over. Nuff said. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 27 Oct 04 - 09:52 PM It's not a secular nation. It's a nation in which everybody has the freedom to decide how they will experience and/or express their spirituality, or lack therof. Including to what extent, if any, their spirituality or religion effects how they decide to vote. Got it? (no, I didn't think so) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Jack the Sailor Date: 27 Oct 04 - 10:04 PM I think Burke has summed it up well with the Lincoln quote. I'd like to see the "conservatives" and especially Mr. Bush, show some humility in their christianity. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: mg Date: 27 Oct 04 - 11:52 PM Gee, it would be great if everyone did the same. mg |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 04 - 01:31 AM It's a secular nation for the simple fact that religion is not supposed to intrude into government, and government not intrude into religion. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 28 Oct 04 - 08:12 AM It really does sound a very bad-tempered nation sometimes, anyway... |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Pied Piper Date: 28 Oct 04 - 09:02 AM You should try living in a democrasy some time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: sledge Date: 28 Oct 04 - 09:50 AM Not to ridicule anyones faith but the drift I got from the blurb at the top was along the lines of "our prayer can overcome their prayer". Sorry but I see that as complete and utter tosh, keep this up and they'll be putting each other to the stake before long. Sledge |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 09:52 AM The US is a secular nation. We have no state religion, although CarolC seems somewhat thick on this point. You see CarolC, some countries are NOT secular nations because their government has an official state religion, like Argentina has or Denmark has or Iran has or Israel has or Cambodia has... The United States IS NOT A CHRISTIAN NATION. It is OFFICIALLY a secular nation, which means it has no official religion, despite it having constitutional protections for most religions. Technically, for much of it's history, the US has waged pogroms against Native Americans and proscribed the practice of their religions, and certainly it has proscribed pagan worship until very recently. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 10:15 AM Exactly what I responded to sledge. These prayer competitions are sick. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 04 - 10:47 AM The kicker for me: Bush has a extensive army of evangelical Christian fundamentalists who pray deeply and regularly for him. Kerry has not to date inspired a similar kind of prayer community around him, perhaps because he appeals more to the 'reality-based' voter than the faith-possessed. We can change that. This is really a very silly statement. I visualize this group of people howling at the moon for a few nights in a row. I'd feel more than a bit put out if any those faith-based folks had me in their sights to focus their prayers, and I can image Kerry squirming about this group trying to one-up the xtian fundamentalists with their major text being the alignment of the stars. SRS (a reality-based voter who did get out in the driveway last night with the kids and the telescope and binoculars and had a fine evening of moon watching until the clouds encroached. We saw the moon go completely dark before it was blocked by clouds.) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: *daylia* Date: 28 Oct 04 - 11:42 AM The eclipse was beautiful ... there seemed to be a halo of clear blue light surrounding the moon as the shadow began to creep over it. That changed to a misty green haziness as the shadow grew larger. By the time it was completely "hidden", it was glowing this mysterious, almost ominious shade of red-orange. It looked so much smaller too, without that luminous "cloak" .... absolutely neck-breaking! ;-) Re voting with the brain - sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Remembering, of course, that without a healthy connection to the heart, a brain is non-functional. Those who love astrology might enjoy the fascinating insights into the "Grand Quintile" - quite the unusual and auspicious delineation, apparently - at this link. Enjoy! daylia |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Bill D Date: 28 Oct 04 - 12:17 PM *big grin*...I quote from that page: " If a person has quintiles in his or her chart, then such a connection, if existent, becomes a channel for the voice of the Soul to pour forth into the lives of all around them. Having quintiles in a chart is no guarantee of such a connection, however. " Reminds me of a dog I had once...he was a perfectly obedient dog! If you said, "sit up, or won't you?", he either sat up or he didn't. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Bill D Date: 28 Oct 04 - 12:27 PM (and I'm not sure MY friends want the voice of MY soul pouring forth into their lives!) |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: *daylia* Date: 28 Oct 04 - 12:38 PM I don't think the voice of your Soul could pour through to your friends via your natal chart, Bill ... but then again, what do I know? I'm no astrolger. Actually, I liked this quote better ... Einstein gave us Relativity theory and the proof that matter and energy are one. The basis of that is the simplest of equations: E=mc squared. Mozart gave us some of the most divine and perfect music the world has heard. Yet, music is numbers in motion, for all vibration has a periodicity and cyclical nature that is described by numbers. It is the same with all shapes and colours. And, it is the same with the human voice and all forms. All art and science has its basis in mathematics, as does all symbolic language. And, quintiles allow us to access those symbols and ultimately the mathematics behind them, though we may not (and most often do not) recognize that a symbol is, after all, God geometrizing. There are many who would feel offence at art and science being lumped together and that art could be reduced to numbers, but our art is more and more digitalized every day. There is actually no separation between art and science. Mathematics is as exquisite an expression of the divine as the greatest painting, music or poetry. We only make it different in our own minds. "God geometrizing". Ha! :-) daylia |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 12:44 PM The US has a secular government. Because there is no established religion or lack of religion, it is not a secular nation. It's a nation that has freedom of and/or from religion. The USSR was a secular nation because the government forbade it's citizans from having any religion. Those who call others thick need to learn the difference between the terms "nation" and "government". |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST,peedeecee Date: 28 Oct 04 - 12:50 PM The most arrogant statement from above: "I welcome the prayers of the rest of the world that we may choose our president wisely & in accordance with God's will for the our nation and the world. It would be fascinating if Americans would stop thinking that their country is the engine that runs the world. Even now, while much of the world is not onside with the Americans, they still think that as goes the US, so goes the world. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Bill D Date: 28 Oct 04 - 01:15 PM peedeecee...many, many millions of Americans never harbor such thoughts in the first place! It would be helpful if NON-Americans would not paint us all with such broad brushes. It also is important to differentiate between 'arrogance' and simply having an obvious 'presence' due to being large and noticable. A country with our history and momentum cannot easily avoid being a major factor in things, just as England & Spain once were. I agree that we need leaders who will strive to change our image from "big, meddling bully" to "useful, helpful friend" as we were known for awhile. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 03:13 PM CarolC, the Soviet Union never officially "banned" religion. You seem very ignorant about state religions, for one who is shooting off their mouth about something they so clearly know nothing about. So, if you care to know, the 1918 Constitution, Sec. 2, Chapter IX, Article 13 stated: "13. In order to secure for the laboring masses genuine freedom of conscience, the church is separated from the state and the school from the church, and freedom of religious and anti- religious propaganda is acknowledged to be the right of all citizens." You are simply trying to weasel your way out of looking wrong, IMO. And as to the statement "The US has a secular government. Because there is no established religion or lack of religion, it is not a secular nation. It's a nation that has freedom of and/or from religion." Well! All I can say to THAT is, spoken like a true ignoramus who chooses to remain one. The nation is the state. There is no official state religion. That means the nation, along with it's state government, is secular as reasonably defined by functional literates around the globe. But hey, if you want to stick with the fundie Christian definition of a secular state, and a Christian nation, you go right ahead. It's your credibility, or I should say lack thereof, that is on the line by sticking with the Xtian fundie definition, not mine. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 04 - 03:52 PM UK among most secular nations 67% of Britons said they believed in God or a higher power A survey of people's religious beliefs in 10 countries suggests the UK is among the most secular nations in the world. Ten thousand people were questioned in the poll by research company ICM for the BBC programme What The World Thinks Of God. More than a quarter of Britons thought the world would be more peaceful with nobody believing in God, but very few people in other countries agreed. The survey found the highest levels of belief in some of the world's poorer countries, but also in the world's richest, America. POLL RESULTS The countries polled were the US, UK, Israel, India, South Korea, Indonesia, Nigeria, Russia, Mexico and Lebanon. The interviews were carried out in January 2004. [snip] Read the rest by following the link. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 04:00 PM SRS makes my point for me quite effectively. She uses a poll that shows how the people in the UK regard themselves with regerd to the question of secular vs. religious. It is the PEOPLE of a country that are the nation. NOT the structures that govern them. I'll have a look into your (abusively stated) assertions about the Soviet Union when I have time. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 04:19 PM Abusively stated? Give me a break. This is not a trifling issue or a silly little point to quibble over. The US is home to some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet, and they have been executing their fundamentalist Christian agenada of imposing Christianity upon our NATION (which according to the dictionary definition is the state government and NOT it's people), in both covert and overt ways for over 2 decades now, beginning with the election of Ronald Reagan. So when someone comes into the forum asking that people join a prayer chain for the upcoming election, some of us citizens are going to be a little touchy about this. Please CarolC, for the sake of the NATION, take the time to education yourself about state religion BEFORE you go into the voting booth next Tuesday. The site I link to is "the people's" online encyclopedia, Wikipedia. I trust that is reliable enough of a source for you. BTW, sticking with the dictionary definitions is quite useful in circumstances like these, where we need to be able to agree that we are talking about the same thing, and are on the same page. When I hear the word "nation" I think of the definition of nation as a state entity, and therefore, it's government. Or this definition for the word 'nation' at M-W.com: 3 entries found for nation. To select an entry, click on it. Main Entry: na·tion-state Pronunciation: 'nA-sh&n-'stAt, -"stAt Function: noun : a form of political organization under which a relatively homogeneous people inhabits a sovereign state; especially : a state containing one as opposed to several nationalities I am guessing you are thinking of this definition of the word 'nation': Main Entry: na·tion Pronunciation: 'nA-sh&n Function: noun Etymology: Middle English nacioun, from Middle French nation, from Latin nation-, natio birth, race, nation, from nasci to be born; akin to Latin gignere to beget -- more at KIN 1 a (1) : NATIONALITY 5a (2) : a politically organized nationality (3) : a non-Jewish nationality Am I right about the way you are defining the word 'nation'? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 04:34 PM Abusively stated? Give me a break. That's right. Abusively stated. The US is home to some of the worst religious fanatics on the planet, and they have been executing their fundamentalist Christian agenada of imposing Christianity upon our NATION (which according to the dictionary definition is the state government and NOT it's people), in both covert and overt ways for over 2 decades now, beginning with the election of Ronald Reagan. I don't disagree with this (except for the bit about the dictionary definition). Please CarolC, for the sake of the NATION, take the time to education yourself about state religion BEFORE you go into the voting booth next Tuesday. The site I link to is "the people's" online encyclopedia, Wikipedia. I trust that is reliable enough of a source for you. I'm not sure what your point is here, but in this case the word "State" can be fairly easily substituted for "government". That's hardly the same thing as how the people who are governed by the State identify themselves with regard to religion. I think these definitions work quite well in support of my point (bolded and italicized emphasis mine): Main Entry: na·tion b : a community of people composed of one or more nationalities and possessing a more or less defined territory and government c : a territorial division containing a body of people of one or more nationalities and usually characterized by relatively large size and independent status 2 archaic : GROUP, AGGREGATION MW Online |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 04:48 PM Where is the abuse CarolC? Because someone strongly disagrees with you and says so, isn't abuse, unless you are some dainty flower of womanhood who can't handle the heat. You said: "That's hardly the same thing as how the people who are governed by the State identify themselves with regard to religion." No CarolC, I disagree completely. We ARE talking about the people, who ARE the government in a democracy. We aren't talking about the religions of the people. We are talking, in THIS instance, in THIS thread, about the government. We are talking about an ELECTION of our government officials. NOT BLOODY RELIGION!!! Hence the vociferous (you would say 'abusive') reactions against the original post in this thread. No one is arguing that there are US citizens who believe in religion. No one is arguing that they pray. What most of us have said here is that religion and prayer has NO PLACE IN DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:00 PM Well, it looks like this statement is the most important point of contention between your position and mine: What most of us have said here is that religion and prayer has NO PLACE IN DEMOCRATIC ELECTIONS. And my point is that whether or not you like it when people choose to include their understanding of their spirituality in the way they make important decisions, including deciding how to vote for president, the fact is that they will continue to do it, and they have every right to under the US Constitution. The Constitution only limits the powers of the State with regard to imposing religion on it's citizens. Citizens are left to make up their own minds about what to believe or not believe. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:26 PM Thanks again for clarifying the fundie Xtian and pagan lunatic perspective on elections you already described above, CarolC. Sorry, but you'll have to find someone else to go round and round ad nauseum with, as you usually do. Your usual nose-hair splitting tactics have already scared everyone else away from the thread anyway. But hey, at least I know the thread didn't succeed in becoming an election prayer chain thread for deluded pagan reactionaries, so I've done my part for democracy today. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:30 PM Pot - kettle: black? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Burke Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:30 PM The most arrogant statement from above: "I welcome the prayers of the rest of the world that we may choose our president wisely & in accordance with God's will for the our nation and the world." Sorry, I was trying to be concise & ended up sounding arrogant. It would be really nice to think that our choice of president did not make much of a difference to the rest of the world. Then we could selfishly vote our own good & not think about the implications for the rest of the world. This whole thread was started by someone who recognizes that to not be the case. I hope that a way can be found that is good for both the US & the world. I don't think the US alone can determine what that is. I do not believe that God is a Republican or a Democrat. I do not believe God is a citizen of any country, the US, UK, France, Iraq or other. God is concerned with the good of the whole of creation. That's what I'm praying we can help to achieve with our votes. The rest of the world can't vote, but they can pray & it just might make a difference. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Once Famous Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:42 PM "dainty flower of womanhood" A weed is more like it. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 05:56 PM Or we could leave Big G gods and Little g goddesses, lunar eclipses, and well intentioned prayer out of it altogether and VOTE WITH OUR BRAINS instead of our religious beliefs, couldn't we? The thing is Burke, there is no way to counter the fundie Xtians take on religion in America with your reasonable sounding religious virtue, so long as you both insist we all pray over our votes. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Burke Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:18 PM Guest, I'm not trying to tell you how to decide your vote. I am defending my right to not have you tell me how to or not to decide on mine. Faith is part of it, my brain is part of it as well. The person who started this with lunar signs & prayers all rolled together is hard to take seriously. The point I got from it is that the rest of the world, not the US, is being called on to pray for the US. I think the rest of the world praying for a particular outcome is really offensive. I don't mind the rest of the world praying for us. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:24 PM With all due respect Burke, I don't find the original poster's lunar signs and prayers any harder to take seriously than your (presumably) Judeo-Christian signs and prayers. It is all hocus pocus to me. I'm not saying you can't exercise your religious beliefs, or shouldn't. What I'm saying is take your religious beliefs for a nice walk BEFORE going to your polling place. I mean c'mon, do you pray over your decision of which doctor to choose too? |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:39 PM It should be pointed out that while Wikipedia is quite accessible and has been used several times by guest and others, it is also not a the same kind of research resource as an online dictionary or encyclopedia from an acknowledged source. Wikipedia's contributions come from whoever wants to contribute, on whatever they want to talk about, and the honor system is in place for links and naming resources. If you have an argument with something posted, you can state so and they then go look at it and fix or remove the item. So I wouldn't consider anything there as a top-tier resource unless it contains solid (verifiable) citations to authoritative publications or links to good online organizations, databases or journals. I've posted to it, so I'm not in any way slamming it as a source. But I have skimmed through it and haven't always been impressed with the degree of coverage on some subjects. FWIW. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST Date: 28 Oct 04 - 06:51 PM I'm in 100% agreement on Wikipedia. There are many academic websites that provide a wealth of information on state religion, although I've read through the whole page on state religion, and haven't found anything to quibble with, which is why I linked to it. That, and because it needed to be something that was easy to understand for Carol's sake. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: CarolC Date: 28 Oct 04 - 10:23 PM Oops. I guess you forgot about Stalin, GUEST. Honest mistake, I'm sure. Maybe someone forgot to tell Stalin about the 1918 Constitution. Or maybe someone forgot to tell all those dead and imprisoned priests, monks, and nuns about Stalin. Talk about splitting nose hairs. Stalin Stalin and religion "Stalin's role in the fortunes of the Russian Orthodox Church is complex. Continuous persecution in the 1930s resulted in near-extinction: by 1939 active parishes numbered in the low hundreds (down from 54,000 in 1917), many churches had been levelled, and tens of thousands of priests, monks, and nuns were dead or imprisoned. During WWII, however, the Church was allowed a partial revival, as a patriotic organisation: thousands of parishes were reactivated until a further round of suppression in Khrushchev's time. The Church Synod's recognition of the Soviet government and of Stalin personally led to a schism with the Russian Orthodox Church Outside Russia that remains not fully healed to the present day." |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Oct 04 - 10:54 PM Guest, knowing when to stop is a good thing to learn. That was a fine post up to the part "That, and because it needed to be something that was easy to understand for Carol's sake." That kind of slam just sets the arguing off again. It's easy to write that kind of retort, it's much harder to let the post cool for a few minutes then delete the snotty stuff. But it does lead to more civil discourse. (I don't put myself up as a shining example, I duke it out with enough others on different topics, but sometimes the arguing gets really really old. I'm damned tired of it with all of this political stuff on top of the regular squabbles.) Since it started out as a goofy thread, and I think I've said about all I needed to, I'll leave it to the rest of you. 'Night. SRS |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: PoppaGator Date: 29 Oct 04 - 12:21 AM I don't think the writer of the original message was suggesting that anyone pray *instead of* voting. It's simply a plea for prayer on the part of everyone who shares his/her concerns, including those who cannot vote in the election and those whose vote is unlikely to influence the makeup of the Electoral College, but *not* necessarily excluding those who can and will vote effectively. Why should the Mammon-worshipping neocons have a monopoly on spiritual support? Assuming that prayer and meditation can have some effect in the real world, isn't it reasonable to act upon the hope that the prayers of highly conscious, spiritually enlightened humans might well prevail over those of smallminded spirits cowed by fear and hatred? By the way, I read the first three or four messages and just skipped to the bottom to write my own two-cents. If I'm repeating anything, or if I missed some salient point somebody made, sorry. The hour is late, my time is limited, and I just couldn't get into the negativity that seemed to be developing. I was much more interested in introducing my own negativity! |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: GUEST, alien Date: 29 Oct 04 - 08:53 AM I know that there are many of you out there in the world who would give a great deal to vote in this election but cannot because you are citizens of other countries Clazza speaks the unfortunate truth, whether folks care to hear it or not. I'm not an American. I'd never want to be one. But who in their right mind would turn down an opportunity to vote the present horde of corporate criminals out of the White House ... and in so doing, help pry their bloody thieving hands off the planetary throat? How would God vote? And why? Nuff said. Ano Ano. |
|
Subject: RE: BS: Not just a lunar eclipse From: PoppaGator Date: 29 Oct 04 - 01:20 PM Guest probably *does* know all about Stalin -- only a dyed-in-the-wool Stalinist would put *any* credence in the words of the Soviet Constitution at this late date. I would think that by now, *any* educated earthling, including the leftmost among us, would readily dismiss all claims that the defunct USSR championed religious tolerance, or for that matter freedom of personal thought on any level. |
