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Tech: So how do I Linux?
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: DaveRo Date: 05 May 22 - 04:16 PM It depends on the computer - who made it (HP, Dell, Intel, AMD, ...) and how it is set up. There is no standard procedure or function key combination. So google for 'installing Linux on Lenovo Thinkbox A123' - or whatever. There are two ways of booting Linux from a USB stick or DVD: - press a key during startup to get a screen to select the boot device - set the 'boot order' to boot first from USB or DVD before HDD That was all you needed to know until a decade ago - then along came UEFI. Nearly all recent computers have UEFI, and UEFI has a feature called 'Secure Boot' which you may have to disable. This piece is 5 years old - the situation may have changed: https://www.zdnet.com/article/installing-linux-on-a-pc-with-uefi-firmware-a-refresher/ Caveat: My knowledge is theoretical. My newest computer is pre-UEFI (12 years old), and I've always burned Linux onto a DVD - I've never used a USB stick. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 22 - 03:06 PM In Windows it has commonly been F8, but I think that isn't the case in my current machine (that required a major reinstall and rebuild recently). |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 05 May 22 - 02:11 PM I put a new OS on my desktop and changed to a solid state drive a couple of weeks ago. I went old school and burned the ISO file onto a DVD. To get to the Bios I had to press F2. I first tried F1 by rebooting and repeatedly pressing F1. It just rebooted as normal. I rebooted again pressing F2 and it went into the BIOS. I set it to boot from the DVD first and checked that the disk worked. Only then did I take out the old hard drive and install the new. On some computers there is an early screen in the boot sequence that tells you what to press for set up. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 05 May 22 - 12:44 PM I think it varies but there is often a key you can press (F12 on this PC) at the start to bring up a boot menu and you pick where to boot from there. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 05 May 22 - 12:13 PM Jon, you recovered and your computers recovered. I went back to the very first post just now (Mark Cohen hasn't posted in ages, he absented himself when he had too many things going on in his life - but if you're ever back - hello, Mark!) He was asking about Partition Magic (I used that back before Windows made partition shifting easy) and I also used dual operating systems (I had a Windows ME that was crap and wanted to use Win2000/NT - so we're going back a ways.) It wasn't difficult to boot into one or the other OS. Jon and others have talked about putting Linux on a thumb drive and booting from that. Did you have to change your computer settings (BIOS) to have it look for the thumb drive when you turned on the computer, or do you do a hot swap between OS? |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 05 May 22 - 05:31 AM Linux can be good for the elderly and non-techies. I've had my parents (now mid 80s) on OpenSuse for years. When they made the switch, they (and I with fewer "callouts") found it much better than the rather less stable Windows (although Windows has improved somewhat since they were running Win2K which was around end of life). It probably helps to have someone around (and I live with them) who's some idea as to what they are doing with it though. Mum's PC broke down when I was in hospital for a weeks a couple of years ago and she got the local repair guy in. As far as I understand it, he told her things were a bit old (untrue, I much later found that PC (now my desktop PC) was Win 11 compatible and the system was running the latest version of that distro - I guess he was more out of his depth than being dishonest though). He sold her (at, I think, a fair price) a used Win 10 PC which at least got her back again with web browsing and email. She was pleased when, after a short while of home recovery, I got her back to her familiar Plasma 5 KDE desktop. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 05 May 22 - 04:41 AM Mint has given my old Thinkpad a new lease of life and, more importantly, Mrs G, a non techie ardent windows user, is happy with it too :-D |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Daniel Kelly Date: 28 Apr 22 - 11:23 AM Hi Piers, Agreed that RMS and Linus didn’t do it on their own, as the song is released ‘creative commons, share alike’, there is always scope for new verses! The lyre was my second attempt at a hand-built approximation to an anglo-saxon lyre. There is a video discussing the build on my channel somewhere, with a link to a more detailed blog post. Cheers, Daniel |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: MaJoC the Filk Date: 28 Apr 22 - 11:20 AM This is truly wonderful: I come here looking for music stuff, and I'm pitched right back into Linux history. It's as if I never left. Now I feel even more at home :-) . {Extremely brief back story: After dabbling at home in assembler, I encountered UNIX on the PDP/11 at (surprise) Uni, after which anything else was a comedown. I use Debian if I can, Ubuntu if I must, and macOS only if someone else is paying; in our house, Microsoft is a four-letter word.} |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Apr 22 - 10:33 AM I can't remember the last time we got a ready made PC but I've not built from scratch that often. There are other starting points. You could start with a motherboard bundle (A UK supplier I've used shown here) or perhaps go a bit further with a barebones bundle with the motherboard installed in a case and probably with power supply and add your other bits from there. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 28 Apr 22 - 10:18 AM DaveRo - years ago I would have loved to have built my own computer from scratch, going through the bins and shelves over at Fry's Electronics (here in the US that was like a warehouse club for tech stuff) but Fry's went out of business a couple of years ago and there's no place else like that for this kind of job. Maybe ordering from New Egg? Walking down the aisle at Fry's and looking at all of the fancy custom cases, and your finished computer ending up like a neon-lit aquarium - that would have been fun. I have been under the hood doing a lot of work on computers over the years - installing drives, putting in cards for this or that connection or port - I'll continue to do that. And I try to stay on top of the features of the Windows programs that I use, so I tend to only upgrade with every-other offering. I'm in Win10Pro right now, not convinced that changing to 11 will make anything better. (There were some features of Win8 that I liked, despite the general poor reception of that platform when they thought everyone was going to laptops with touch screens, and there are still a few in Win10 that completely disappear in Win11.) That said, I'm glad Linux is there because I think the competition keeps the big guys honest. Kind of. Naming heroes in the tech world - don't forget Hedy Lamarr. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 28 Apr 22 - 08:56 AM Plus one for Ada Lovelace and Charles Babbage but let's not forget Tommy Flowers as well. Perhaps he is the most important of all. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Piers Plowman Date: 28 Apr 22 - 08:34 AM I enjoyed the song and especially liked the lyre. Did you build it yourself? I don't mean to go on about it, but I think there's a matter of credit where credit is due: With all due respect to Richard Stallman and Linus Torvalds, they didn't do all the work themselves. Without a compiler, linker and loader, just for a start, nothing would work. To say nothing of Ada Lovelace and Charles Babbage! Maybe you could consider a couple hundred more verses to honor everyone? As far as bug reports are concerned, programming is approx. 90% debugging (if you're lucky). |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Daniel Kelly Date: 28 Apr 22 - 08:03 AM As a Linux user since 1994, I was inspired to write this song about the GNU/Linux history. GNU's Not Unix In response to the comment that revived this thread, these types of critical vulnerabilities are announced weekly (daily?) in relation to Microsoft products. The good thing about the Linux community is that it will be fixed quickly and transparently (if it isn't fixed already). Daniel Kelly, |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Piers Plowman Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:50 AM Although my profession was computer programming before I retired, I bought my first computer last year. I have the Ubuntu distribution of GNU/Linux. (The Free Software foundation encourages people to say "GNU/Linux" rather than just "Linux" because the system wouldn't work at all without all the hard work that developers of GNU software put into their packages --- it's not just the operating system kernel, i.e., what the term "Linux" actually refers to.) I use the GNOME desktop with a gray background and have the brightness and contrast of my monitor turned down fairly low. Working on it is more comfortable than it's ever been for me at the various jobs I've had and the other places, like libraries or copy shops, where I've worked at the computer. I have an ergonomic keyboard and mouse and have gotten so used to them that I have a hard time using ordinary ones. I think everything should be ergonomic! I started using various Unix and Unix-like systems in 1991. At first, they were commercial versions of Unix and then the computer center where I worked started having GNU/Linux. They also had a workstation with FreeBSD on it, which I used once in a while. I really don't like KDE, too colorful, too much "Schnick-schnack", as we say in German. I especially hate animated things on computer screens, like the idiotic paperclip they used to have in Windows ("Karl Klammer", in German). Back in the day, I got along perfectly well just with X-windows (the real name is "X11"), though I've gotten used to having icons to click on and some things, like a file explorer (or whatever it's called) can be useful. Aside from a browser, I do most of my work on the computer from within the text editor Emacs. Since I'm a graphics programmer, I do appreciate not just having a screen with green letters, like the ones when I first started with computers (I missed out on punchcards). Of course, I use other graphical programs, like Audacity or Flowblade, etc. If anyone wants to use GNU/Linux, I would definitely encourage them to do so and would be glad to bore them to death with technical details of the things I know about. I do recommend learning how to use the "shell" a.k.a "the command line". One learns a great deal more about the computer that way than just using graphical user interfaces. By the way, this is a link to my personal website, in case anyone wants to have a look, with links to my other ones, including one involving my work as a (GNU) programmer: Laurence Finston's Website. Laurence Finston |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: DaveRo Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:39 AM I wrote: He didn't know what a Desktop Environment was, or which one he was using, or what a protocol handler does, or the difference between that and a mime-type handler...and I should have added: he wasn't interested in finding out about these things. He wanted it to 'just work'. Fair enough, but if you're not interested in that sort of technical detail, even to solve a problem, use Windows - or a Mac. This, about that vulnerability, is amusing: https://www.theregister.com/2022/04/27/microsoft-linux-vulnerability/ |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 28 Apr 22 - 05:37 AM I'll bow to your better knowledge Jon. To be honest I'd go to a supermarket and buy a Linux magazine that had a bootable CD or DVD enclosed and try it. Mint was the first one that worked and that I liked. Once it was up and running it was like being freed from a tyranny. A warning to anyone dipping their toe in these waters. Running an operating system from an external drive, DVD or USB, is a lot slower than running it from an installed hard drive. You get to see what it looks like and what it takes to navigate the system, then if you do install it you get a pleasant surprise in how fast it can be. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:58 AM I think Mint uses Ubuntu as its base rather than being part of the family. I couldn't see it now when I looked at downloads but Mint also used to offer a Debian (which I think Ubuntu uses as it's starting point) based version. I'm not quite sure what you mean by "basic structure" but one thing that does vary is the layout of system files. I might for example find instructions for Ubuntu when looking for help (it's the most popular after all) and have to adapt them slightly for OpenSuse. Package management is another thing that varies. Ubuntu is deb based and Opensuse rpm based so instructions to apt-get won't work... It's easy usually though - the basic ideas remain the same. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: DaveRo Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:51 AM Stanron wrote: I've just read through the thread and realised how much Linux has come on since 2004.Yes, I remember looking at all the the linux flavours treewind mentioned in that post of 2004: Mandrake (with its yellow stars) Red Hat, Slackware, Gentoo... No Ubuntu back then. I chose SuSE mainly because it was European, and tried out SuSE 6.2 under KDE. I've used every version of SuSE since then, though I dropped KDE because they added fancy visual effects and unneccesary features (just like Windows did in 7) so I now use the much simpler XFCE. There's no reason for a long-time Windows user to change Linux if they can afford to keep hardware up to date and are happy with where Microsoft is going. Many Linux distros overemphasise their similarity to Windows, and people start using it expecting it to be the same. They often come unstuck the first time something doesn't work - a trivial configuration issue can completely stump them. On another forum recently I tried to help somebody who'd used a windows-like distro for several years and kept telling everyone how easy it was. And it was - while he stuck to the defaults. He decided to change browser from Firefox to Chromium but found that his links in Thunderbird still opened in Firefox. He thought it would be like Windows - just change the default browser. He didn't know what a Desktop Environment was, or which one he was using, or what a protocol handler does, or the difference between that and a mime-type handler... I do think you need to be technically curious, adventurous even, to use Linux. Don't expect it to be like Windows or you'll be disappointed. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 28 Apr 22 - 04:41 AM Linux Mint is also in the Ubuntu family. My understanding is that Ubuntu was developed as an operating system for use in Africa. I find the colours are too intense, or garish, for my taste. My memory of it is mainly lots of deep purple. I prefer the light greys and pale blues of rainy Manchester UK and Linux Mint gives me that. The basic structure of the operating systems, or Kernal, may well be identical but the colours and layout of the presentation are what differs. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 28 Apr 22 - 03:37 AM I think the SUSE 9.2 version I mentioned back then wound up was probably the one I used to move away from Windows as the main OS here. I've chosen Suse/OpenSuse for quite a few years now and it's on all the PCs/laptops here except my new Dell laptop. I had trouble with graphic card switching (it's an Intel/nVidia model) and, as Dell seem to work with Ubuntu, decided to try one the Ubuntu family. I'm probably in a minority as I don't like Ubuntu itself and prefer a Plasma 5 desktop and generally prefer kde apps to gnome ones so I chose Kubuntu. I've been happy with this. SRS, just download an ISO that can be run live, burn it to a flash drive and run it from that. Or try a couple. With the desktops, you will find different looks and feels as well as default app selections. Coming back to Ubuntu, you would probably find the Kubuntu variant closer to your Win 10 experience than you would Ubuntu if that was what you wanted. It may sound a touch confusing but it's a world of choice and people will find their own favourites which suit them best. Must try to remember where I put my (2.5 and 3.5) USB to Sata cable. I think I've only used it when I fitted a ssd in dad's laptop but it's a handy device to have. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 27 Apr 22 - 05:46 PM "Your "powered HD to USB thingy" - what is that? " When I put the new Solid State hard drive in the desk top I removed the old 'rotating' hard drive. The idea was to do a clean install on the new drive and then copy wanted files from the external old drive to the new without having to dismantle the machine a second time. On 2.5 inch SATA drives this can be done with a simple SATA to USB cable. My old drive turned out to be a 3.5 inch drive and for those the cable has to be powered with 5 volts DC or it can't spin the disk. So I had to order a powered cable. You can do the same thing with the older IDE drives but that needs a different cable again. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Apr 22 - 04:26 PM Your "powered HD to USB thingy" - what is that? I found it easy to connect computers (one isn't on the network, it finally refused to connect to anything, but as old as it was everything else worked well and the software was worth more than the computer so I didn't reinstall the OS and lose the software, I just got a new computer.) Now I do some of my work on the old computer and I have a transfer cable that acts like a drive. There is software loaded in the fat end of the cable and each computer connects to the software and I drag stuff back and forth very easily. About $30 at Radio Shack. My old computer has things like the old free Windows Movie Maker that is your basic reliable editing software but you can't get it any more. Plus it has the last versions of Adobe software that was released on disks, but I don't have the disks. I keep thinking Linux is something I'll play with one of these days, but that day hasn't arrived yet. When my son went to the university he took a computer he put together himself and I wanted to save money so called the school to ask if they had a free or cheap version of the Windows OS (my university had that agreement with Microsoft). My son was entering the Computer Science program - we were told they'd be using Linux once he was doing the coursework but told us how to get the Windows. Now years later he's still a Linux user. Hopefully it doesn't take a college degree to learn how to use it. :) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: DaveRo Date: 27 Apr 22 - 03:16 PM I don't think MS is particularly criticising Linux in raising these bugs. It's the kind if thing they should be looking for, given that MS are promoting Linux running on Windows in the form of WSL. Though I suspect that MS's public relations department enjoys making a song and dance over what is, actually, a fairly minor and run-of-the-mill bug. It's already been fixed upstream - most systems will be patched in a couple of days. I don't expect a campaign of Linux ransomeware. It only affects desktop systems, which are about 2% of users. It doesn't affect servers, of which most are Linux. Compared with the recent log4j bug - which is still not universally patched - or the Spectre vulnerabilities, which were baked-into years of Intel processors - this is trivial. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stanron Date: 27 Apr 22 - 01:43 PM It's rather rich of Microsoft to criticise Linux for something that has been an uncorrected major Windows flaw for decades. Is Linux beginning to steal some of Windows' market share? I've just read through the thread and realised how much Linux has come on since 2004. On Sunday I put a new Solid State Drive in my desktop and did a fresh install of Linux Mint 20.3 with a Cinnamon desktop. It's a very nice system and a painless install. It wasn't helped by the fact that my 4G Wi-Fi died on Saturday evening and I had to do my updates on an old 3G device. But this morning the Postman brought me a new 4g device and a powered HD to USB thingy that allows me to get files from old hard drives. Happy days. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Jon Freeman Date: 27 Apr 22 - 01:24 PM Thanks SRS. As far as I can see networkd-dispatcher is part of systemd-networkd which apparently is one of the networking alternatives on Linux. As far as I know, everything I have is using either wicked or network-manager. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Stilly River Sage Date: 27 Apr 22 - 12:42 PM This is an old thread, but topical, so I'll post this here and if it belongs in a more current thread, someone can post it there also. Microsoft warns: These flaws could give attackers root privileges on Linux desktops Microsoft has discovered flaws that could be combined to gain root privileges on Linux systems. Microsoft has discovered vulnerabilities in system components commonly used on Linux desktops that could allow an attacker to elevate privileges to root and install malware. The rest of the story is on the linked page. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Dec 04 - 06:25 PM A Mandrake Move progress report. While most things seem to work pretty well, a few notes. I have a PIII 1G 512 Mb Once loaded, it runs pretty quick - until it needs something off the CD - normal CD access speed applies - a HD install would speed those bits up. First Access only of new SW like Open Office etc is a bit slower too. Maybe a disk cache is being used. There is a Swapfile. I have a CD reader and a CD writer - it setup both as read only - reasonable failsafe approach - just change the writer to be writable. I tried to access the floppy drive and it crashed - just that bit - the OS itself is stable. It crashed because I had no floppy in the drive - sad that - rather disappointed that such a simple error check was not implemented.... It had no midi player installed - you need to get some more s/w, - but it played .wav & .mp3 ok. Only thing is that the sound level output was much lower than when in windows - I needed to turn up the speaker volume on the box itself, then turn it down in windows. Also it stuffed around with the screen (max res 800x640 as standard) - I normally like 1024 resln in windows - shifting the screen around so it needs to be realigned between Win & Linux. - minor hassle. UNIX tricks that I already know (file locations, mounting disks etc - things that are very different to the Win Way), because I have used UNIX variants for ages are all covered in the included tutorial which is highly recommended for newbies to work thru slowly and thoroughly first. Robin |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: mack/misophist Date: 04 Dec 04 - 10:14 AM One small caveat; I have to share files with a windows machine and samba has never worked properly for me. However, a free download called smb4k fixed that quite handily. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 04 Dec 04 - 08:51 AM Format C: Richard? That's one thing you will probably not have to do if/when you install Linux. The install programs that come with Mandrake, Suse and I presume others will do that for you as well as partition the disk. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 04 Dec 04 - 07:16 AM Well having now tried Mandrake Move, I was absolutely stunned at the ease with which it set itself up. The only thing it didn't like was my old Imation 1.44Mb/120Mb dual 'floppy', and I'm not really surprised by that... It wrote an 8Mb 'build file' to the UMB (so it's doing a lot of work on install!), along with my new user directory, and other stuff it needs, recognising the UMB immediately, and not interfering with the stuff already there from Win98. I used the UMB to transport some music files to test the player. Just copied the files over in Win 98, reboot with the Linux Cd, etc... Mandrake Move recognises the FAT 32 formatted UMB as standard. You beaut games - lots! and OpenOffice and multiple desktops, a choice of shells - very impressed - should be very easy for a total newbie who reads the tutorial to pick up real quick. A few things like some older H/W and printers, etc may need you to track down some drivers of course. And if you really want to set up the HD partitions to talk directly to Linux, you can too. You can even install Mandrake to the HD, but the whole point of this distribution is that you just don't have to! Runs at a reasonable speed from the CD (48X) too. You can set up your net connection (write down your details from within Windows first!), adjust the monitor size and details, etc. Very Good! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Rapparee Date: 03 Dec 04 - 09:59 PM Were it up to me, my Library would be running only Linux-based machines. However...we're supported by the City's IT Dept., and they're currently committed to Microsloth products. Fortunately, we're semi-independent and they don't care what software we use if a) we have the necessary licenses, b) we fix it ourselves if it breaks, and c) it will interact with their software and network without causing problems. So I run Wordperfect instead of the City-standard Word, Quattro Pro instead of Excel, Presentations instead of Power Point. Again, if I had my way (hey, that sounds like a good line for a song!) I'd be running something like RHL or SuSE with a KDE or Gnome desktop and Open Office or something similar. Up the Bazaar and down with the Cathedral! |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Richard Bridge Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:48 PM Mags here in the UK are reportingprobs withthe latest SuSE. I would really love to set up a linux machine and kiss microsnot off. When I get my next upgrade I might try it on an older machine - format C and really go for clean. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Dec 04 - 07:20 PM Mandrake Move - fully portable - issued with Australian PC User iss no 42 Dec 2004 a full distro - GIMP, Open Office, Audacity, CD/DVD burner, more, etc probably will turn up on other mags in other countries. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: treewind Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:55 AM Knoppix is one of the best known for that - booting and running entirely off the CD. I don't know if it supports storing your data on a USB drive but my experience of Linux and USB lately is that you just plug in the drive, mount it and use it. You can also intall knoppix to the HD, but the result isn't as good as a distro designed to be installed. But knoppix is brilliant for borrowing a friend's PC to run something without touching the existing OS installation. Anahata |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Dec 04 - 08:34 AM There is a new Linux release, Mandrake I believe, that boots _and runs_ from the CD - was on a few PC mags - it does not need to touch your partitions at all, because it uses a USB Memory Drive to save your personal directory stuff on - you have a completely portable Linux system, that will run on almost any PC, you just slip in the CD & UMB... great for the completely timid, can't wreck your Windows OS if you leave all partitions on the hard drive alone, no reformatting etc needed. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: NH Dave Date: 22 Nov 04 - 02:08 PM Geoff, A couple of weeks ago, Fred Langa, an InfoWorld columnist who does a computer newsletter, did a bit on "Windows Lite" a couple of programs that can trim the various versions of Windows down to less than 100 mb of space. This article is also available at Langa Article , for those who want more information. Dave |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: GUEST,Jon Date: 22 Nov 04 - 08:40 AM Just a little bit of feedback as I'd commented on hardware problems. After a few other attempts, I eventually decided to get Suse Linux Professional 9.2. It arrived today and I have just installed it. The only problem I have found is with my tv card which is detected correctly but doesn't work. Other than that, every hardware device appears be fine and all installed without a need to search for manufacturers CDs (or in my case sometimes do an internet search for drivers). This is a huge step up for me, not only with attempts at Linux but also with Windows (latest version I have is 2K pro - not tried XP) where I have often found myself not only searching for drivers but on occasions fighting with devices Windows has either failed to detect, or as with a card reader recently wrongly detected and insisted on loading the CDs Win 98 drivers. Overall it seems to be so far so good and there seems to be plenty of good software on the 5CD set. I haven't read properly yet but at first glance, the documentation looks comprehensive with both a users guide and an administration book supplied. Jon (off to read a bit more of the books before playing around any more) |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: mack/misophist Date: 03 Nov 04 - 11:00 AM As a rule of thumb, the people most suited to install linux are windows power users - the sort who get a kick out of going on the web to find out how to fix or improve things for themselves. If this doesn't describe you , then a friendly nerd is the best bet. Many of us are eager to move friends and relatives "away from the dark side." Once the installation is up and running, the TCO is more or less limited to the electric bill and the monthly ISP payment. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Piers Date: 03 Nov 04 - 09:59 AM Thanks Treewind, I had suspicions that the TCO idea was highly specious. I am in the process of migrating to Linux OS for home/work use, I'm glad to hear it took you a while (in the nicest possible sense). Piers |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: treewind Date: 03 Nov 04 - 07:02 AM The TCO "get the facts" campaign is Microsoft FUD based on carefully selected examples, misleading statistics and paid-for "independent" surveys. Sysadmins who have significant experience of maintaining both Linux and Windows networks say Linux is far less trouble*. At least one who runs a web hosting business actually charges his clients more for running IIS/Windows servers than Apache/Linux because of the greater work involved. Linux sysadmins are more expensive because there are fewer around and technical knowledge is required, but ironically they have to do less work (so actually a given size network requires fewer admin staff) (Actually it's a myth that Linux requires tech expertise and Windows doesn't. To keep a Windows network secure needs just as much knowledge really, it just gives the illusion that it doesn't because it's easy to install in the first place.) For the home user I admit it's never going to be an easy migration. Pre-installed software that works straight out of the box versus stuff you have to install from a CD and then has a different user interface and mostly different applications... it took me a long time and I'm supposed to be a software engineer! Anahata *I run a Linux server for an office with about half a dozen Windows workstations. The only time I touch the server is to change backup tapes. The only time it's been rebooted this year was for the PAT tester (electrical safety check) when it had to be disconnected from the power. Even changing our internet connection from ISDN dialup on the server to a separate firewall PC and then from that to ADSL broadband didn't require rebooting for any reason. In a previous job there were Windows NT servers that required tasks restarting nearly every day. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Nov 04 - 05:42 AM It's the 'total DOLLAR cost of ownership' argument - you have to do some considerable part of the work yourself... I'm a pro-Linux person actually... but I really feel that many people would be better suited to Windoze... just as I really feel that many people would be better suited to Taxis or Public Transport than driving their own cars really.... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Piers Date: 03 Nov 04 - 05:13 AM Out of interest, are any of you Linux buffs credulous of the 'total cost of ownership' argument (that is, as I understand it, though the Linux based OSs are basically free it you pay more than you would to microsoft in terms making your hardware work)? Piers |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 03 Nov 04 - 01:57 AM I would happily pay a few dollars for a 'Final Service Pack' CD with all the updates (Needs the original CD) to any and or all the 'no longer supported' versions of the various Microsoft OSes - some older ones are what is needed for perfectly serviceable old machines. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: mack/misophist Date: 02 Nov 04 - 08:21 PM My wife won't use anything but windows 98se. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: The Fooles Troupe Date: 02 Nov 04 - 06:21 PM Actually "Workgroups for Windows" was slightly better... |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Geoff the Duck Date: 02 Nov 04 - 02:07 PM Mark - I seem to recall that there is a "version" of WinXP which takes up a lot less space and loads and runs much faster on PCs with a slower configuration. What did they call it..... Oh yes - Windows 3.1 Quack!! GtD. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: mack/misophist Date: 02 Nov 04 - 10:13 AM Thanks, treewind. It's been so long since I had to do any of those things that I forgot about them. Not that linux programs never crash. But they don't take down the system when they do. |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: treewind Date: 02 Nov 04 - 07:36 AM Well, here's some of the things you won't be doing with RHL: - Running virus scans - Installing adware and spyware detector programs - paying for software upgrades - defragging your hard drive - getting your PC turned into a spam-relay - rebooting it every time you install a driver or change the network configuration - rebooting it because a program crashed and took the OS with it Anahata |
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Subject: RE: Tech: So how do I Linux? From: Dave the Gnome Date: 02 Nov 04 - 06:57 AM I have just installed Red Hat on my PC - Took all the defaults and it installed Linux quite happily leaving W2K where it was and giving me a boot loader. Bargain! I now have a dual boot W2K / Red Hat Linux PC installed with no fuss, no partition manager (apart from Red Hats own internal one) all done in the space of about 30 minutes. I'm impressed. Doesn't take much though... What I am going to do with RHL is another kettle of fish altogether! Cheers DtG |
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