New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'

Subject: New Zealand's stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: GUEST,Nansaidh
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 12:59 PM

Hi,
Does anyone know the stance New Zealand has for foreigners resisting military service (draft)mainly, will they be extradited?

Any information would be greatly appreciated.

PS
For any of you who feel repugnant that I would even ask why I don't want to send my son to "serve" his country in Iraq, save it, in fact why don't you just stuff it.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:07 PM

I am entirely sympathetic, and curious about where you live. Since you're asking about NZ, I assume you're in Australia.

Do you currently have conscription there (wherever you are), with draftees being sent off to combat in Iraq, or are you anticipating this as something that may come soon?

Sorry, I know nothing about NZ's policies in this regard. Canada is undoubtedly still as viable an option as it was in the 1960s.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:13 PM

Thanks for your reply PoppaGator,
I am an American mother with a broken heart after yesterdays election who sees an inevitable draft. I have been told that three years ago Canada signed a new provision with the Bush Administration to NOT take in draft dodgers, they will be extradited back to the US...... and I am terrified.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Little Robyn
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:26 PM

Send him to NZ.
We don't have a draft but it is quite hard to get residency here unless you have skills that the Gov approves.
Robyn

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:32 PM

This thread belongs "downstairs".

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: GUEST
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 01:46 PM

Feel free to put it there:)

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:03 PM

I remember when my basement was occupied by young Americans coming to Canada to evade the US draft. Some I still know are university professors, musicians and other professionals, now Canadian citizens. Their coming proved to be an asset to Canada.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:10 PM

Remembered rom "Sing Out."

STUDY WAR NO MORE
Gonna lay down my income tax
I ain't gonna pay for war no more
Gonna lay down my GE stock
And live off war no more.
Gonna lay down my Honeywell job (Haliburton)
And work for war no more
Gonna shove those Congressional kawks
And vote for war no more.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: GUEST,Nansaidh
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:33 PM

Yes, Canada saved tens of thousands of American boys, God bless you:)

Thank you all so much. Sorry, I didn't mean to post this in the "wrong spot" not sure how to move it now though.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 02:34 PM

I'm disappoined over the election results, too, but not surprised, and not terribly alarmed.

The election *was* close, and not everyone who voted for the President was necessarily endorsing his war policy. Huge numbers of those who came out to vote the straight Republican ticket did so *solely* because of their absolute opposition to abortion and to homosexuality. Many of these folks may be willing to go along with every administration policy no-matter-what, but not all of them.

In other words, just because Bush won 52% of the vote, or whatever, does not mean that 52% of the country supports the war in Iraq -- certainly not so strongly that they will accept a draft to supply cannon fodder for continuing that misguided effort.

There is *much* more public sentiment against this war than at a comparable stage of the Vietnam conflict, and plenty of doubt about conscription even among supporters of the war -- certainly among career military personnel. If a draft were indeed to be imposed anytime soon, there would be *immediate* draft resitance on a scale at least equal to that of 1968-72, if not moreso. As you may recall, the draft was abolished on January 1, 1973, as a direct reponse to the country's growing and adamant opposition.

The draft laws in effect in the 60s -- which presumably would remain essentially unchanged if conscription were to be reinstated -- provided provisions for requesting Conscientious Objector status. It might be prudent for you and your son to prepare for the possibility of making such an application -- figuring out who among his teachers/counselors/ministers etc. to ask for reference letters, etc.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Mr Red
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:45 PM

When I lived there I worked with a Swiss guy who was trying to get away from the two weeks he spent on military training every year. It is the price of nuetrality I guess. Bro-in-law was worried during the Vietnam war because they were ready to draft people then. It didn't come to it thought.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:53 PM

I agree that the draft, per se, will be instituted any time soon. If at any time they need more warm bodies over there, it will be a simple matter to lower the standards of acceptability. Right now, the military services are requiring a high school diploma - some college is better- and a certain level of accuracey on the tests. Easy to lower those standards. And as long as jobs are hard to find in this country, warm bodies will keep applyng to the military.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Ebbie
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 03:54 PM

Insert "not".

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: PoppaGator
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:04 PM

I think Ebbie's right. Starting up an actual draft will stir up more problems for the admin than it's worth.

The lack of other acceptable jobs for much of the working-class population will keep young people enlisting, and the "back-door draft" of pulling reservists and National Guard members into active duty seems ot be working so far.

About that rumor mentioned earlier, that Canada has already made some agreement to extradite draft dodgers back to the US -- are you sure? Just because something is mentioned on the Internet doesn't mean it's true, you know. I still doubt Canada would do that -- not necessarily because of anti-war policy, but simply not to surrender their own soverignity.

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Janie
Date: 04 Nov 04 - 07:05 PM

Here is information on immigration to NZ.

Janie

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 05:19 AM

Bit of fun... if you want to avoid the draft, do as Arlo Guthrie suggests in 'Alice's Restaurant'.

I'm truly sorry you feel this way, I've never felt happy with conscription, having worked in a military museum, where I got to catalogue the possessions of those who were both drafted and volunteers.

LTS

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: GUEST,Nansaidh
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:44 AM

I've got my son's passport ready and up to date. I've written the Canadian, New Zealand, and German Consulate for their stance in the event. Now to get on with directing my anger toward a more positive direction. I'm going be an example of real patriotism to these the self-rightous evangelicals who voted their "christian values" that Jesus died on the cross for, you know, stem cell reasearch, abortion, and gay marriage. What happend to the poor and hungry??

If your interested, read this, it pretty much sums up how I feel and what I'll be doing for the next four very looooong years.

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/g/a/2004/11/05/notes110504.DTL&nl=fix

Thank you Mudcatters for allowing me to rant and spew out all my fear, now Im just mad. Country, when a mother is mad and backed into a corner........, you better fucking watch out, things are gonna change.
Peace

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: DougR
Date: 05 Nov 04 - 11:52 AM

It might be a bit more difficult to gain residency in Canada today than it was in the 1960's according to a news article I read the other day. I believe it was the PM or other government official that announced those wishing to gain citizenship in Canada would have to get in line with those who have already applied.

I think America will not be less better off if there IS a exodus of people who cannot accept the results of this week's election. Good riddance I believe.

DougR

Subject: RE: New Zealands stance on 'draft dodgers?'
From: dianavan
Date: 06 Nov 04 - 05:36 AM

During the Viet Nam conflict, you could apply for 'landed immigrant' status in Canada. That meant you could come to Canada and once inside the border, you could apply for immigrant status. Now you have to apply for permanent residency from outside of Canada. When the PM said get in line, I'm sure he meant - go through the process and wait for you number to come up.

There is a point system. If you score enough points, you're in. Its based on such things as years of education, ability to secure employment, medical health, etc. (it doesn't hurt to have a big bank account). The main thing is that you must show that you are able to provide for yourself and that you won't be a drain on the system.

d