French Carols Sung by Children?

Subject: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Margaret V
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 07:32 PM

I guess this is a bit of a long-shot but I wonder if anyone can recommend a recording of French Christmas carols sung by children. I'd like to find such a recording for a friend who has more than once wistfully mentioned hearing something like that in the past that he would love to hear again. I've tried various web searches and the usual suspects such as Amazon and am coming up empty. Any ideas? Many thanks.
Margaret

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Alba
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:31 PM

Hi Margaret,
You could try here: French Carols
There are some samples you can listen to on the site.
Hope this helps.
Blessings
Jude

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 08:47 PM

Margaret, I found a recording at cdnow (amazon). It appears that the name is Noel but it's followed by the word Import (which I don't understand if that's part of the name or what.) It's by the Dijon Cathedral Children's Choir and has lots of French carols.

Here's a link. If it doesn't work, let me know and I'll figure out a way to give the information.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004ABB/qid=1100136357/sr=1-29/ref=sr_1_29/002-1611209-6905624?v=glance&s=music#product-details

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Mary in Kentucky
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:07 PM

This one may be better to listen to.

Noel - Christmas Selections (20) Import
The Dijon Cathedral Children's Choir

For some reason I can hear these sample with Windows Player, but in the previous link I couldn't.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B000004A7X/qid=1100138583/sr=1-31/ref=sr_1_31/002-1611209-6905624?v=glance&s=music

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 10 Nov 04 - 09:52 PM

The Dijon cd listed at Amazon is very good. Only used available. The links in the Amazon sampler are best, but they are very, very slow to connect.

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Margaret V
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:40 PM

Thank you very much, Jude and Mary and Q! The Dijon Choir sounds nice and may just fit the bill, though as my friend is a totally unreconstructed folkie I may keep searching for something with simpler accompaniment. I know... picky, picky...
Many thanks. Margaret

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 08:56 PM

Seems to me there should be carols performed by French Canadian children, but I haven't found them.
There are some Breton cds, but I think the French recording system doesn't match ours. Or is that a problem with VHS tape only?

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Margaret V
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:45 PM

Q, I don't think there's any problem with CDs recorded in other parts of the world. Do you have any Breton CD recommendations in particular? We visited Brittany this summer and I'll bet if there were a nice album of Breton carols he'd be interested. Thanks again. Margaret

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:43 PM

I have tried to relocate the Breton website, but I get "page cannot be displayed."

Also looking for "Le Jeunes Chanteurs d'Acadie" and their recording "Revivre nos Noels," WRC-203, but no luck.
Sorry

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: mg
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:26 PM

I heard the most beautiful Christmas carols sung in French by children on Christmas Eve midnight mass one time in Vancouver, Washignton. They were Vietnamese and dressed like angels. mg

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Genie
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:36 PM

Speaking of French carols and children, the song "The Friendly Beasts" is an English-language version of a very old French carol (going back to the 12 C. AD, by some accounts). The story, of all the animals being able to speak at midnight on the first Christmas and telling of their gifts to the Christ Child, seems well suited for kids. I'm wondering if any children's choirs have recorded it.

So far, I haven't been able to get my hands on the French lyrics.

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: mg
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 09:46 PM

Isn't Jeanette Isabella French? And Pattapan? nmg

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:27 AM

The Burgundian 'French' original of Pat-a-pan is "Guillô, pran ton tamborin!" by Bernard de la Monnoye (17th c.), but I have only heard it once, played and sung by an early music group (all adults, I'm sure). The lyrics are here: Guillo pran ton tamborin
There are several English translations.
"Un Flambeau, Jeanette, Isabella" is 17th c. Provençal. Modern French words and midi at Un Flambeau

The Vienna Choir Boys sing a mixture of carols including French on a couple of their Christmas cds, but I don't think this is what Margaret V is looking for.

Another recording with children in my Canadian list is carols by "Petits Chanteurs de Mont-Royal," Telson AF 1517. Can't find that either. Out of print?

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 01:22 PM

Chanson Pour Les Petits Enfants not exactly a Christmas carol, but it seems to crop up at that time of the year

Nigel

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Genie
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM

Yes, Mary, "Un Flambeau, Jeannette, Isabelle" is an old French carol. I believe the composer wrote it for his two daughters, Jeannette and Isabelle. It's from the time when the "manger scene" consisted of a real-life tableau enacted in the village square, and in the lyrics the two girls are invited to see the lovely "Mary" and baby "Jesus" in the tableau.

What I love about this song is that the English lyrics are extremely close to an exact translation of the French lyrics.

If it's not already posted here in French, I will post them.

Genie

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:44 AM

"The Friendly Beasts" (Orientis partibus) was originally in Latin, not French. Latin and English lyrics are found here: Orientis partibus
Supposedly 12 c. and attributed to the Bishop of Sens, but no clear documentation.

As noted above, the French lyrics to "Un Flambeau" are linked in my previous post.

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 03:38 PM

????

This is the second time in as many days that I've composed and submitted a reply to a thread which appeared to post just fine, only to open the thread later on and find the post had vanished!

Very strange!

---
OK, here's my post of yesterday which disappeared:

Q, The Latin words to Orientis Partibus are not even close to saying the same thing as the story in "The Friendly Beasts." Yes, TFB is sung to the TUNE of OP, and both songs have a donkey/ass in the lyrics, but there the connection seems to end.

As for French children singing the song in Latin, of course that makes sense if it was a CHURCH song, sung as part of the mass, since the Catholic mass was until recently sung in Latin. But every time I've seen "The Friendly Beasts" (or "Jesus, Our Brother") printed in a song book, it's cited as deriving from a French FOLK SONG of medieval times, so I'd imagine it was likely sung in French.   

If all the medieval French ever sang was Orientis Partibus -- a Latin song--, but that tune was later used as the melody for an English-language folk song about the animals speaking about their gifts to the Christ Child on the night of his birth, then it's wrong to say TFB derives from a medieval French carol.   

Anyway, the story behind The Friendly Beasts apparently does date back to the middle ages -- the myth that at midnight of the first Christmas all the animals were granted the power of speech.

PS, Thanks for the link to "Un Flambeau." That site, however, omits the second verse.

Here it is, from memory (no doubt with a couple errors):

C'est un tort quand l'enfant sommeille,
C'est un tort de crier si fort!
Taissez-vous, l'une et l'autre d'abord!
Au moindre bruît Jesus s'eveille.
Chut! Chut! Chut! Il dort en merveille,
Chut! Chut! Chut! Voyez comme il dort!
 

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Genie
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 03:56 PM

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 08:15 PM

This is all digression, since Margaret V was looking for a cd with French carols sung by children. Except for a couple of apparently out-of-print recordings, we have struck out.

Like many other old songs, attributions include hearsay, errors and speculation about origins. The carol "Orientis partibus adventavit asinus" has a tune attributed to it that is the same as that of the carol sung in English as "The Friendly Beasts."

If you read the information at the link given below, it becomes evident that the words were written by Robert Davis (possibly based on an older English source).
The tune "Orientus partibus" was modified by Richard Redhead in the 19th c. and brought to its current state by Ralph Vaughan Williams (English Hymnal, 1906). Put together, this is one version of the present carol.

Donkey or Beasts

In other words, we have an English carol partly based on an old Latin text that some believe dates to the 12th c and may have been written by a Bishop in Sens. The "French" attribution,to be charitable, is a gross oversimplification.
The Germans also took the Latin carol and have reworked it as a German carol. It achieved some popularity there, but it never seems to have become popular in France as a "French" carol.

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:06 PM

Four French verses at Cyberhymnal for "Un Flambeau." The midi is slow.
Un Flambeau
Also four verses at the French song and poetry website momes.net (midi at a nice speed): Un Flambeau
The melody possibly is by Nicholas Saboly, but its current form, I believe, was set by the English organist, Nunn. (Haven't seen his score).

Subject: RE: French Carols Sung by Children?
From: Margaret V
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 06:43 PM

Thanks again to everyone for trying (and for turning this into a bona fide music thread!). I can fall back on the Dijon CD and now at least I can keep my eyes open for the two out-of-print suggestions from Q. Cheers, Margaret