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BS: religious question
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Subject: BS: religious question From: *Laura* Date: 11 Nov 04 - 04:58 PM I've got a question - mainly applies to Christians I think but I'm not sure. And it's where religion all falls apart for me. If God is all knowing - he knows every bad thing happening in the world. If he's all powerful - he can do anything in the world he wants to. If he's all good and loving - he must want to stop everything bad. So, and leave out free-will just for a moment, because even if he did give people free will - if these statements are correct then he knows about everything bad, and he has the power to stop everything bad, and there is no part of him that doesn't want to stop everything bad. so....... why?? i think if people didn't always have a prepared answer for questions like this (free will! free will!) I would find religion a lot easier to believe in/understand. xLx |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: CarolC Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:05 PM I don't subscribe to any organized religions, but here's what I think about that... let's say you're a parent. What do you think woud happen to your children if you tried to protect them from ever making a mistake of any sort in order to protect them from having to experience the consequences of their mistakes? My guess is that they would never learn anything. From my perspective, that's what I think we're all here for. To learn and to grow. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: GUEST Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:26 PM "I don't believe in an interventionist God" A slap on the back and a packet of salt and vinegar crisps to the first person who can name the song and artist that first line comes from. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: GUEST Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:29 PM (without googling it!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: skipy Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:33 PM THE BOATMAN`S CALL (Mute 1997) THERE IS NO GOD, THERE NEVER HAS BEEN & THERE NEVER WILL BE! Skipy |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Once Famous Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM Do you think any of you will all of a sudden find God when you are on your deathbed? |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: GUEST Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:36 PM Cheat! I said without googling. Anyway, I asked for the song and artist, you gave neither. Can't even cheat properly! |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: *Laura* Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:41 PM In Hitch-Hiker's guide to the galaxy it argues that the very act of god proving himself would prove he doens't exist - becasue he can't exist without faith and if people need proof he exists then they don't have faith. So by proving he existed he would, in fact, be proving he doesn't exist. This is, according to hitch-hiker, why the earth itself is proof that god doesn't exist. Becasue something so complicated would be proof that God exists, so it is therefore proof that he doesn't. Or something ike that. I understand where I'm going with this anyway! (I don't have the book here right now - you may have noticed!) |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: PoppaGator Date: 11 Nov 04 - 05:42 PM The "Question of Evil" is one of the oldest subjects of theological debate, and with good reason. Everybody asks it (especially when they're young adults)! Believers can't deny that bad things happen -- they have faith that things *ultimately* come to a good end. This usually involves some notion of an afterlife or, at least, the conviction that one can and should transcend (rise above) earthly cares. I'm convinced that you're better off living as though there were reason for faith -- better than the alternative, which is to proceed with the conviction that nothing really matters. It's not as easy to have believe in Faith for its own sake than it is to believe in an anthropomorphic Santa-Claus-like God, but it's at least possible for a thinking person. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:04 PM Laura, you have just put forth one of the real classic philosophical questions, usually referred to as "The problem of Evil." Philosophers and theologians have wrestled with it for centuries, and I doubt that Mudcatters are going to do any better. The attempts I've seen at resolving it include: 1. Free will is purposely allowed, even at the cost of evil, in order to allow mankind to reflect their made-in-the-image-of-God power of choice. 2. God is not all powerful (or) 3. God is not all good (or) 4. God, while all good and all powerful, is not attentive--he just doesn't pay attention to us and our actions, so evil in effect goes on behind his back. 5. God is in essence not one but two, one dedicated to good and one to evil, of approximately equal powers. The evil side or evil being is close to the idea of Satan. The idea is that there is a titanic struggle going on, but that the good side will eventually triumph. This is the Manichean heresy, one of the historical heresies upon which the early church nearly split. This idea is embodied in the ancient (and still barely existing) religion called Zoroastrianism. I've heard it suggested that God, being basically good but containing evil within himself, got rid of his evil by placing it in another being, which his good side could then defeat. There may be other approaches, but these are the ones I'm familiar with. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Peace Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:06 PM Edward Teller was speaking to an auditorium filled with students at, I think, UCB. At question time, a student put up his hand, was recognized by the chair, and he asked Teller if he believed in God. Teller said he did. The student proceeded to ask the following: "Then, what was God doing before he created the universe?" Teller thought for about ten seconds and replied, "He was dreaming up Hell for people who ask that question." |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:13 PM I am eating an apple at the moment....can any of you taste that apple I am eating.....????????. I am in conversation with Jesus at the moment...can any of you hear that conversation...?????? Can you taste my Jesus..??????? Do you want to hear the conversation...????? I thought not...you are too busy doing your own thing. Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Fishpicker Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:19 PM "i think if people didn't always have a prepared answer for questions like this (free will! free will!) I would find religion a lot easier to believe in/understand." Why worry about it??? We are all here, none of us know why, none of us know what happens after we expire! Why not enjoy life and try to keep from worrying about things you don't have any control over or understand. The Buddhists say *be here now* which is good advise IMO. Organized religions are , IMO, in most cases businesses that want to control people and releive them of the burden of their money; they have nothing to do with your connection to God or whatever you choose to call the big picture that our finite minds can't ever seem to comprehend. Just my opinion all you religious fanatics out there so don't get your shorts in a wad. FP |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:23 PM I don't like salt and vingar crisps. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Mrrzy Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:26 PM There are no gods. If people would just work together and forget all their "petty bickering" (Star Trek reference) we could be AS gods, and survive our planet, which would be way cool, not that I'd be around to see it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:36 PM mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm if life were so simple. God does exist. Jesus lives....how do you refute that????? Prove that he is really not with us!!!!!!!!! Can you???? Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:37 PM It's an interesting question, Laura. Actually, I think the answer IS "free will," so how can I use that answer and still follow your rules? I think that's part of the problem - we set up rules for how we thing God should behave, and then we expect God to behave accordingly. I think we also make a mistake if we define faith and religion as systems answers that are imposed upon us, rather than systems of inquiry for exploring and pondering the mysteries that surround us. I think that in faith, the questions are far more important than the answers - and any one question can have a vast number of answers. I believe in the beauty of the spontaneity of every aspect of God's creation. Creation has infinite possibilities, and that is a primary aspect of its beauty and wonder. In a sense, all creation and all beings are creating themselves - and God is somehow actively bound into that ongoing, infinite process. If creation just played itself out according to a preordained script, would it still have that beauty and possibility and spontaneity, the ability to take part in the act of creation itself? So, anyhow, I don't want anybody - not even God - writing the script for my life. If I make a few mistakes here and there, maybe that will help me grow in unexpected ways. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: CarolC Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:37 PM Georgiansilver, you seem to have a very uncharitable (dare I say "unChristian") attitude toward people who believe differently than you (unless you were joking). I've heard it suggested that God, being basically good but containing evil within himself, got rid of his evil by placing it in another being, which his good side could then defeat. Which creates a very interesting conundrum. Because when people do this sort of thing (and they do it all the time), they project their own "evil" onto others and then do evil things to the ones onto whom they have projected their concept of evil, thus creating (or perpetuating) evil rather than eliminating or reducing it. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM Carol C you have to believe what you want to believe...we all have our choices. What actually do you believe??????? Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: CarolC Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM Georgiansilver, we crossposted. I was refering to your first post in my last post. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: CarolC Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:41 PM Crossposted again. What do I believe about what? |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:42 PM Do you believe there is a God or not...easy really! |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: freightdawg Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:46 PM As a couple have said already, good question. Uncle DaveO gives the most succinct review of the answers. But, I have a gentle rebuke to the question, and I do hope you accept it as a gentle prod. Your third statement, "if God is good and loving he must want to stop everything bad" has a huge logical flaw in it. I will make an assumption that you are somewhere in the west geographically (i.e., Canada, US, Europe, etc. I was going to add South America, but more on that in a moment). If so, you have been raised in a culture that praises and seeks after a life free of pain, sickness, sorrow, disappointment, grief and all the other so called "negatives" that life is literally full of. Because "our" concept of "good" eliminates those things, and because we transfer our concept of "good" to our concept of God, we naturally assume that God wants to eliminate everything bad, evil, etc. This is the mistake of idolatry - creating a god in our image and then worshipping it. However, this says more of our culture that of our God. Many cultures recognize that these things which we call "evil" are not evil at all, but just manifestations of the whole of life. I am not convinced at all by arguments that state God wanted man to live an idyllic life free of pain and sorrow. If you look at the Judeo/Christian story of creation in Genesis 1-3 you will not find any promise or indication that God had an antiseptic lifestyle in place for Adam and Eve. The closest we come to that conclusion is in regard to the punishment for Adam and Eve rebelling against God, and that is the pain of childbirth would INCREASE (not begin) and that man would have to work with an uncooperative land to earn his living. I am not convinced that even death is the ultimate evil, as my understanding of the context of this passage and my (admittedly limited) understanding of Hebrew indicates to me that the real punishment is not death, but a death in separation from God. I do not think God intended us to be eternal in our physical existance. I think death was in God's plan from the beginning. You see, much of what we argue with religion (or argue with God, for that matter. I see religion as distinct from faith in God) is not the truth of God, but with our own preconceptions about such. Your own reticence to deal with the question of free will is just an example of that self-limitation. You yourself said that the fall-back to free will limits your willingness to accept much of religion and of God. Well, if you had no free will, you could not even make that choice. See? Many cultures, free of our dependence on self-reliance and the worship of "good," do not have these problems. They have their problems, to be sure, but they are not our existential, selfish, "I must be made happy" kind of issues. You asked a good question, and it is from the asking of good questions that good answers can proceed. I just ask you to free yourself (as much as possible) from our cultural preconceptions and allow for the truth that what we consider to be evil may truly be evil and it may not be evil. It may just be a sign post God has given us to point to an easier road to walk on. Sorry for the length of the post. But I do care deeply about this subject. A very meditative, Freightdawg |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:48 PM Mabe there is a god, but he's a bit busy at the minute? ie, mybe he made loads of worlds not just this one? and this one got in a mess, because he is busy loking after other ones? or maybe the budget run out? the council have got loads of roads, wehn people moan that their bit of road has got holes in it, council say="we got loads of roads to look after, your road is not priority, but we'll have a look at it if we get time", or they say "road budget run out, we might fix it next year". |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Mrrzy Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:49 PM Georgiansilver, it is the extraordinary claims which require proof, not the observable reality. Things do not happen for a reason, there was no creation but rather a physical, explainable accretion of matter coalescing into planets, some of which have liquid water, some of which have large moons and thus tides, on some of which some chemicals became able to retain their composition under changing environments (which is what life is, after all - chemicals that don't undergo chemical changes with changing environment through their organization), and so on. As I taught my children, there is no need to prove the absence of gods. We can prove through empirical methods that anything any religion claims was accomplished by gods or a god, wasn't. Reality just is, there is no need to posit explanations requiring its proof. Instead, it is the superstitious who ought to be brought to the realization that their extraordinary claims, despite (or maybe even because of) their antiquity, are the ones that require examination. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:49 PM Or maybe he's forgot, just keep asking him. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM God wants what he wants and no matter what anyone says he still wants it!!!!!! God tells people...yes he does!!!! by what some call conscience.......God tells people what he wants...do you heed what he asks of you????. We all have a choice..go for what you believe....If you don't believe in God..go for what you do believe in.....It is all down to you...you have a choice in everything you do....go for it!!!!!!Best wishes. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: CarolC Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM I don't generally use the term "God" myself. I have a concept of Divinity, but it's probably very different from your concept of God. To me, Divinity is the conscious aspect of all of Creation as well as the creator. It's a bit like this part of Joe Offer's post: Creation has infinite possibilities, and that is a primary aspect of its beauty and wonder. In a sense, all creation and all beings are creating themselves - and God is somehow actively bound into that ongoing, infinite process. For me though, I don't see any separation at all between the creator and the created. From my perspective, we, and every other created thing, are all tiny sparks of divinity. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Bobert Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:53 PM Well, as a few of you know, this ol' hillbilly is a Christian. I've made no bones about it an' on one occasion was accused of interjectin' my Faith in too many threads... I don't think I have done that but, hey, some folks is real touchy when it comes to Faith issues. With that said, I don't see God as all knowing or able to change bad things that happen. The evangical community may have a different opionion but, as these folks care more about the Old Testamant than the teachin's of Jesus I'd just ask them one question. If God could control everything then why, if you believe everything in the Old Testament, did God flood the earth? Why didn't He just make people do and act better? I don't think that God makes folks start wars, 'er hurt other folks, 'er kids run into the street after balls and get hit by cars and killed, yet these things do happen. What God does, however, is Bless us all with His love. And He, thru the Holy Spirit, speaks to us daily. He leads us. He cajoles us. Sometimes He speaks very loudly to us as to what we are to do... He provides comfort when we need it... And when we fail, He tells us that we'll do better next time... And probably the most important thing that God does is offer us forgiveness, shopuld we ask, for our bad behaviors... And I'm sure that there are days when God puts His head in his hand and says to Himself, "I'll do better tomorrow..." That's my take... Bobert |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Georgiansilver Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:55 PM Amen Bobert...Amen |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Bill D Date: 11 Nov 04 - 06:55 PM there are many questions like this about the mysteries of religious ideas. Some try to 'answer' them, some just say "who knows why God did it this way?" and some say "If God were reasonable, he wouldn't have done it this way, therefore I don't believe the is a god." In the end, YOU have to decide what kind of answer YOU like...and that's how we all get our answers, because as far as I know, no God has cleared up the matter with a clap of thunder and glowing letters in the sky. No matter what you 'believe', it is ONLY a belief...that's why we use the word 'believe'. I personally believe that some people emotionally just need to believe...doesn't prove they are right or wrong...it just shows that the question will be with us as long as people wonder. ....but the more I see of humans and what they DO in the name of religion, the more I tend to wish we had never heard of it....all the lovely songs, churches, writings and charities notwithstanding. There are perfectly good reasons to create art, love your neighbor, and make music without the pain attached to religious strictures and rules. I also know many can be religious without being filled with hate and rancor....but I 'think' I can avoid hate and rancor without being religious. So far, so good... |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: harvey andrews Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM "All the Gods asleep....so no one has to kill" |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Amos Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:13 PM A huge amount of detritus in the history of these issues is caused by some major assumpitons about the qualities and nature of this zone of being we think we are talking about. The notion that there is "man-like" attention coming from a Beingness that transcends all cosmos is somewhat absurd on the face of it, something like requiring a human to listen to electrons individually. You wouldn't even begin to try, and if someone told you that large numbers of electrons expected you to pay attention to their affairs you would graciously and humorously decline the commitment, wouldn't you? Anthropomorphism is a hard habit to break, especially when it is so ingrained in the legacy of vocabulary. But until it gets broken, I don't think meaningful insights into this arena are really possible. A |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Joe Offer Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:31 PM
-Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Uncle_DaveO Date: 11 Nov 04 - 07:52 PM I congratulate Freighdawg on his contribution. It was masterful, and helpful. Dave Oesterreich |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: GUEST,auggie Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:06 PM Very nice FD, and very well said. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Bert Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:54 PM ...systems of inquiry for exploring and pondering the mysteries that surround us... Joe, If everyone thought like that then there wouldn't be so many problems in this world. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: mack/misophist Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:24 PM All closed logic systems, such as theology or arithmetic, either: A. Can be driven to a logical absurdity, or B. Are incapable of validation without introducing outside elements. All religions and philosophies fall into group A. Welcome to the world. Believe or not. Behave decently and it doesn't matter. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Joe Offer Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:49 AM But mack/misophist, do you care to explain why you contend that all philsophies and religions must be "closed logic systems"? My philosophy and theology are eclectic, and don't necessarily lead to anywhere - not even to absurdity. Philosophy and theology are tools for exploration, not sources for answers. A true philosopher never ties himself or herself to one philosophical system. -Joe Offer- |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Ellenpoly Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:00 PM Interesting that "God" is pretty much always referred to as "He". In fact not a "She" or even "It" in sight. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Ellenpoly Date: 12 Nov 04 - 01:12 PM Sorry, got interrupted. I'm not sure what the point was that I was trying to make in the first of my posts, except that for me, the difficulty always begins with the idea of anthropomorphizing something that is supposed to be as omnipotent as a "Creator". But then, I wasn't raised in a Christian household, so I haven't got my brain around just how Jesus was the son of such a being/concept. Anyway, I'm sure there's going to be lots of people coming on board this thread to offer their own insights and opinions. It's been a while since we've had a good religious thread, and after all the politics, it seems only appropriate to go back to the "other" subject one is always warned against bringing up in polite company! ;-D ..xx..e |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: GUEST,Clint Keller Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:15 PM I do not see how a god can be all-knowing, all-powerful, and all-good and still be a personal god, interested in each of us individually. There are small children dying unpleasantly in the world today. I doubt if many other cultures would think that's not evil. And these children have no free will. The Kootenais believe (as near as I can tell) in a creator who started it all, and then went off and left it running. There are lesser spirits who may be interested and helpful, or not, but they are not omni-anything. This makes more sense to me than a God who "has a wonderful plan for your life." I can't say I think much of his wonderful plan for those kids' life. clint |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Raedwulf Date: 12 Nov 04 - 03:46 PM And I'm sure that there are days when God puts His head in his hand and says to Himself, "I'll do better tomorrow..." So that's an admission that God isn't infallible, Bobert? Which would mean that the whole omniscient/all-powerful/don't-piss-me-off-I-will-damn-you-to-Hell business is nowt but a big lie, *ooops*, I meant propaganda, *ahem*, spin... Look, just call God George W. & let's have done with it, eh? ;-) (There is a serious point underlying my overlying flippancy. Think about it.) |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Peace Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:02 PM IMO, there IS no religious question. Them what believes, believes. Them what doesn't, doesn't. Them what's not sure's not sure. However, I don't see a question there. For people who believe in God, that's enough. I have never felt so filled with the 'spirit' that I needed to fill everyone else with my belief about the Creator. It's a personal thing that I have not needed to have organized for me by religious institutions or religious people. My own belief tells me that it is good to help people when I can, and even when I can't. My own belief tells me that life is beautiful, and that I will never know in this life if God really exists. My own belief tells me that one book does not have all the answers, even if that book is The Book (Bible) or Koran or, or, or. I have no need for a perfect God. That God exists in my world is all that I require. If she, he or it does not exist in yours, that's fine with me. There is no question: that's fine with me. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Fishpicker Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:12 PM Brucie, I couldn't agree more with what you said but the problem with religion is that most subcribers, unlike yourself feel a compelling need to coercise everyone they can into believing exactly as they do OR ELSE! Just another form of terrorism really. I'm a live and let live type but I expect the same treatment from my fellow beings which is apparently too much to ask these days. FP |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: annamill Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:16 PM I, of course, spent time pondering this question. I did a lot of research, read a lot, explored, talked to people. I came to my own conclusion. One of the books I read helped a lot. It is called The Art of Loving by Erich Fromm. A book with really good ideas and explanations. Give it a try. It might help. You have to follow your own path. Love, Annamill |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Raedwulf Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:33 PM 4. God, while all good and all powerful, is not attentive--he just doesn't pay attention to us and our actions, so evil in effect goes on behind his back. Doesn't work, Uncle DaveO. My understanding of christer dogma is that the big g (lowercase here is intentional irony...) is also all knowing. You cannot be unattentive to my every thought & everything I might do & still presume to judge me for all eternity. If your point is valid, then god is convicting us either because he feels like it, or because a minion is "fitting us up a treat!" You cannot be all powerful without being all knowing. How can you stop something that you are ignorant of? This is the staple of Fantasy fiction & the bane of many a Dark Lord! *grin* You cannot be all knowing without knowing everything that has been, everything that is, and everything that will be. This is where christer dogma falls entirely apart, IMO. God cannot be all-good & all-powerful. If he is all-powerful, he knew what he was doing long before he ever did it (so he is a complete bastard, considering he's put people through Genghis Khan, the Crusades, Spanish Inquisition, Hitler/Stalin, & so forth, quite deliberately, & then reckons he has the right to judge us). Or he is the ultimate incarnation of Good, in which case the notion of him being all-powerful is logically indefensible & there must be someone else hanging around that has, at the least, the potential to beat the ultimate crap out of him (& we're back to the bile, I mean, the bible being no more than propaganda). The only other alternative is that god is entirely beyond human comprehension. In which case sticking labels of "good", "powerful", or "knowing" on him is utterly meaningless. If god is truly "all-powerful" he is rather further in advance of us than we are in front of Homo Erectus (which Fundies deny all knowledge of, (un-)naturally!). It can be claimed that we would be unequivocally benevolent towards HErec. But does anyone really believe that A) we would be; & B) that HE would have the slightest comprehension of what we were or how we were treating them, however we did? Anyway up, they'd bow down before us as gods... Funnily enough, how the monotheist theology has us behave towards the infinitely superior Ultimate Deity. God is either all-powerful or all-good. The two are not compatible in any human frame of reference (except blind, obedient, gullible faith). Or you accept that he is beyond human comprehension, in which case anything you claim is pure speculation (i.e. complete self-serving bollocks) on your part. This is why I'm pagan. I prefer to talk to higher beings I can understand, ones who aren't so godalmightyfuckingarrogant that they claim to be the be-all & end-all of existence. Rædwulf P.S. Unlike georgiansilver, I don't claim that the higher beings talk back. I don't have any transcriptions from god, jesus f-off christ, or any of my lot. I just do the best I can & hope I'm doing about right. |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: akenaton Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:40 PM Im an atheist..But I have studied the bible a little, and believe most of us take it too literally. To my mind most of it , especially the new testament is metaphorical. Like Jesus being referred to as the son of God, when what is really meant is that he had "goodness" in him. Most theologians now see biblical writing as metaphor,most no longer believe in a physical heaven and hell or resurrection, or a supreme being...Ake |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Raedwulf Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:55 PM Apart from not being an atheist, I'd agree with the bulk of that, Ake! |
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Subject: RE: BS: religious question From: Raedwulf Date: 12 Nov 04 - 04:59 PM P.S. Didn't you live & die 14thC B.C.E? Is this proof of reincarnation??!! ;-) |
