BS: ABC=wimps

Subject: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Jeep man
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:34 PM

As expected, our local ABC station has wimped out of the showing of "Private Ryan".

ABC is airing it and I am glad to see they have a little backbone.

Is Freedom Of Speech still in the Constitution? If this movie has bad language, and it offends you, don't watch it. Nobody holds a gun and forces you to hear them. (Men in war, curse, scream, and cry)

All the more reasons to watch the cable channels. Jim

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:35 PM

You can thank the FCC and Janet Jackson's tit for it.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:41 PM

I was delighted to see the affiliates stick it to the FCC like this. What balls it took for them to stand up and say "no double standard" on fucking Veterans Day in war time with a war movie beloved by all who love to monger and worship war and warriors!

And thumbing their noses at the Commander in War Mongering Chief and his war mongrel minions!

So! Still firmly entrenched in your self-satisfied "mandate" and self-righteous indignation there Dumbya worshippers?

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Rapparee
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:45 PM

Guest.

I usually don't say things like this, but I'm going to make an exception in this case.

Go fuck yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Once Famous
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 09:48 PM

Bush and the FCC have nothing in common, moron.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:05 PM

Awwww...boo hoo hoo boys. I still say, it is TOTALLY GREAT what the affiliates are doing! Stickin' it straight to the FCC & their censoring, hypocritical ways!

I was actually so inspired by their audacity, I've already complained to my local ABC affiliate for airing it!

What's the matter boys, don't like a little of your own medicine slapping you hard across the face, hmmmmmm?

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:21 PM

so, they just made a producer a few more millions in VCR sales and rentals.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:28 PM

Was the movie not aired because of language, or was it not aired due to the date--November 11. I am not aware of the controversy, so please accept this as a serious question.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Alba
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:48 PM

They feared they would be fined Brucie because of the new restrictions the FFC has put in place so they pulled the Movie.
Here's a bit more on the subject: Not Saving Private Ryan, saving money instead!
Blessings
Jude

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Alba
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 10:48 PM

FCC sorry:>)

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: mack/misophist
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:41 PM

Note to Martin Gibson: The chairman of the FCC is Colin Powell's son, a relative nonentity til Bush promoted his daddy. That's the link. OK?

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Ebbie
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:51 PM

Don't understand the problem. I've had the video for several years. What's the big deal about having it on the airwaves?

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Peace
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:54 PM

Thank you, Alba.

If anyone should hear of a station airing it and testing the FCC's right to levy a fine of that nature, would you be kind enough to let me know? If I hear anything, I'll post it here. Sounds like a bluff to me, but it's some bluff when a network can be muzzled by an arm of government.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: robomatic
Date: 11 Nov 04 - 11:59 PM

I never got the Janet Jackson thing. Her nipple was covered by that cute little star. No harm done.

Boston area skipped SPR and aired the beauty of a New England Fall followed by FAR AND AWAY.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: katlaughing
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 12:54 AM

Our local affiliate showed with a caveat at the beginning of each new part, after the commericals, which said something about it containing strong, adult language with violence and of course "viewer discretion is advised." This afternoon some idiots were showing a horrible show about a real murder; during time when a lot of kids are home alone and they worry about thiso ne movie being shown at night? They are holdover prudes, control freaks, from Puritan times.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 10:17 AM

Yes, the decision the affiliates gave for not running the movie was the extreme violence and adult language that wasn't being bleeped.

I saw their move as a direct challenge to the FCC, and the FCC certainly needs to be challenged on this bullshit censorship on the networks. A brilliant strategic move on the part of the afffiliates that struck right at the heart of right wing hypocrisy.

Even better than a poke in the eye with a pointed stick!

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:28 PM

Here is an illustrative example of the hypocrisy of the right wing censorship movement, from today's Newsday:

UNEXPECTED ALLY
Critic salutes ABC on 'Ryan'

BY VERNE GAY
STAFF WRITER

November 12, 2004


Under the heading "strange bedfellows," a staunch critic of the networks yesterday came to the defense of ABC, whose airing of last night's "Saving Private Ryan" was boycotted by a handful of affiliates.

The critic, L. Brent Bozell, president of the Parents Television Council, a conservative program advisory group that has rebuked the networks for years over content, sided with ABC, which said in a statement yesterday that it was "proud to once again broadcast the Academy Award-winning film."

Bozell said in a statement, "the content is not meant to shock nor is it gratuitous. We applaud ABC for letting viewers know ahead of time about the graphic nature of the film and that the film would be uncut."

ABC learned Wednesday that an estimated 20 ABC stations around the country had decided not to air "Ryan," in part because the unedited film was to include graphic material as well as expletives. A concern by some stations was the Federal Communications Commission's recently toughened stance against obscenity, and they had unsuccessfully sought an FCC waiver that would exempted them from fines.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST,Agin' Sinsoreship
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:35 PM

This was an example of the worse case of sociopolitical censorship in broadcast media. What next from religious fanatics?

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 05:38 PM

I am aware the chairman is Colin Powell's son.

so what?

I say it has nothing to do with George bush and you have no proof that Colin Powell is running the FCC through his son.

blame Janet Jackson and the over reaction of a few prudes and soccer moms who never saw a tit.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:08 PM

None of you seems to understand what is happening.

There are some facts here:

1. This film wasn't censored by the ABC network from network headquarters, but by ABC affiliate stations around the country, specifically affiliates owned by Scripps and Cox.

2. The affiliate didn't censor the film because of fear of viewer backlash that would cost them advertising revenue, which is the usual reason why networks and/or affiliates censor controversial programming. For the first time ever, this film was censored by the affiliates because of fears of the governmental interference in the form of fines by the FCC for the obscene language in particular.

3. The extreme violence of this film does not appear to bother the right wing conservatives who often complain about TV violence, who for the first time are backing the network decision to run this film unedited in prime "family viewing" time.

4. This media controversy appears to have at least one thing in common with another recent media fracas: the decision by CBS to pull the airing of the made for TV movie about Ronald Reagan.

5. The issue isn't the obscenity of the graphic violence (which is obscene really--I've seen the film too), but rather the use of obscene language in the film. The word 'fuck' is heard repeatedly in the film. The FCC heavily fined the network and affiliates who carried the Grammy awards without the bleep delay, when U2 lead singer used the same word in his acceptance speech.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Once Famous
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:09 PM

so big fucking deal. watch it on cable or rent it.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 12 Nov 04 - 06:14 PM

Sorry, one more fact.

6. The film has twice been shown, unedited, for the last two Veterans Days. (Remember, once a network controls the broadcast rights to a film, they really make a lot more on subsequent reruns of the film than on the original broadcast.) However, this was the first time the film has aired since the FCC adopted it's "new" standards under the Michael Powell doctrine of community standards for decency, under which the network and affiliates were fined in the cases of the Super Bowl with Janet Jackson and and the Grammy Awards with Bono.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:34 PM

D Day was an extremely violent business and we would all do well to reverence the gallantry of those men who went into that hell for us all.

The bad language thing really does seem to upset some people doesn't it. it was the sound of spandau machine guns, and I suspect the smell of death rather than bad language that left my dad with nighmares the rest of his life.

I don't know what the answer is. Its a film I avoided taking my Dad to just in case it brought it all back to him.

Tom hanks is a great artist and I suspect he was making a serious effort to to help us understand what happened. If he used that language in the script . Maybe we should respect his best efforts.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 08:29 PM

"Saving Private Ryan" wasn't written by Tom Hanks.

I think the point here is that when the networks want to glorify war and warriors, they show this film unedited, yet refused to show other equally excellent films about war that are cautionary tales about the folly of war and the clay feet of the warriors, they either refuse to run the film, or run it edited to the point of it becoming unrecognisable, as they did with "Apocalypse Now".

I also think it is a really bad precedent to set, allowing what is essentially a propagandist type film glorifying war, to get "special dispensation" while everyone else using language pays the FCC fines.

But that's what the networks and the Bush FCC has gone and done, so from now on, we'll all get our war propaganda straight and pure, and everything else deemed too titillating for the FCC, especially when it has anything whatsoever to do with the devil's music, will get fined.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:15 PM

Its true I don't know who wrote the film. Its a film, I keep at arms length because I find it uncomfortable to think that people I know and love went through something like that.

The abiding image i took away was young men in the landing craft being machine gunned as the front of the landing craft came down. It was a horrendous image, and not too many other film makers have come up with anything as graphic as that.

You extrapolated it as a film that glorified war. All i can say is, we're all different.

I wouldn't want to glorify war.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:33 PM

No weelittledrummer, the point I'm making is the conservative right, including the Powell contingent of the FCC, loves the movie 'Saving Private Ryan'. I've seen the film, and felt that while it was very graphic and realistic, and the violence in context, that it still glorified "the good, righteous war". Which is why in the post-9/11 world, the network chooses to show 'Saving Private Ryan' instead of the equally excellent war film 'Apocalypse Now' on Veteran's Day. 'Saving Private Ryan' makes the US military look heroic, in an admittedly gritty, realistic way. 'Apocalypse Now' shows the military in a much darker, more disturbing, but equally realistic way.

I think we all know why the conservative right and the networks make the choice to show 'Saving Private Ryan' in war time, rather than 'Apocalypse Now'.

The conservative right hates Janet Jackson and Bono and all they stand for as rock and R & B musicians. They play the devil's music. Bono has been a strong advocate for social change and progressive activism that is anathema to the conservative right.    Janet Jackson is black and female, and an easy target for stereotyping with the "loose morals" schtick that black females often get from the white conservatives.

The conservative right is fining the musicians for using the same language live, as is being used in an unedited film shown in prime time.

That is a double standard that unfairly privleges what they value, and punishes what other people value. It doesn't have anything to do with decency, it has to do with the conservative right trying to dictate what we will and won't be allowed to watch on TV, according to their definition of community standards, rather than the community standards that has served the networks for decades.

That is my complaint.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:46 PM

Have you now, or will you ever, rent the video of Saving Private Ryan?
The senator's ghost still stalks the land.
Giok

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 12:56 PM

Actually, I rented it on DVD. Also, my bad in the last post--FCC didn't fine the musicians, but the networks and affiliates.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:34 PM

Well I'm certainly not in favour of anybody being censored.

like I said I'm probably a bit superficial - i watched Apocalypse Now and just kept thinking - God I wish I had a cavalry hat like Robert Duval's.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 01:46 PM

Naw, the hat was cool. Especially with the shades.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:00 PM

"I think we all know why the conservative right and the networks make the choice to show 'Saving Private Ryan' in war time, rather than 'Apocalypse Now'. "

Guest, from your post it does not sound like YOU know the reason why the network chose to air Saving Private Ryan. Simply put, it is ratings and business.   Saving Private Ryan is still a "new" picture that ABC has exclusivity for broadcast showing. Apocalypse Now is an older picture that has gone into syndication. Even if ABC could get a contract for Apocalypse Now, they would not draw the same ratings based on the age of the two films. It is a business decision, not a political one.

I also disagree with your feelings that Apocalypse Now does NOT glorify war. I find it an incredibly insulting movie based on a piece of fiction and a sterotypical view of Vietnam.

If they really want to make a statement, let them air Robert Altman's unedited version of M*A*S*H*, although it too is in syndication.

Also, Michael Powell was appointed during the Clinton administration. It is very easy to see that the recent actions that he is taking is part of a calculated effort to change the fabric of television and radio.   Janet Jackson's nipple wasn't the first to be seen on television. People uttered "fuck" before Bono. Graphic war scenes were shown on network televsion before, including Saving Private Ryan. The FCC and the current administrations "mandate" about "moral values" has created an atmosphere that allows these events to occur.   Michael Powell has become the Joe McCarthy for this generation.   It's time people wake up. The FCC needs to get back to licensing and technical issues, something that it handles. They are not arbiters of taste.   Just looking at Powell's suits shows that he has very little taste!

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: frogprince
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:13 PM

The basic concept of fining a network because someone was "standing on their lawn" when they flashed a titty or let a vulgarity slip is pitiful; The idea, of course, is to pile the fear at the top of the slope, where it will slide downhill effectively.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:27 PM

I agree with most of what you said Ron, but I disagree about the 'why they show Private Ryan. Yes, because it is the newest of the war movie genre and because it is a popular film (hence the advertisers like it). But it is also because of the post-9/11 pro-militarism stance of both the networks and advertisers. Private Ryan makes the soldier boys (well, the right soldier boys, like Damon and Hanks) look heroic in a very simplistic way.

The one they will never show unedited in prime time is the film I consider to be the best of all the Vietnam films: "The Deer Hunter".
But I think "Apocalypse Now" is an excellent, though flawed film that got out of hand during filming. I think "The Deer Hunter" is the best American war film ever made.

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: WFDU - Ron Olesko
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 01:47 PM

I had forgotten about the Deer Hunter. Great film. You are right, it does not get shown or talked about enough.

You do make a good point about the pro-miliarism stance of Private Ryan, but I'm not sure that is a bad thing. WWII was a different era and different circumstances. I think it is very important to remember the sacrifices soldiers have made in ALL wars. Private Ryan does show that. I did not find that it glorified the tragedy of war, but I do know that there are many militarisic "groupies" that will get their juices flowing when they see something like that. For the majority of us, I don't think the film was as much of a recruiting film as it was a reminder of the sacrifice that so many have made for the country they love.   Maybe the answer is showing a double feature - Private Ryan and Deer Hunter or M*A*S*H*!

Subject: RE: BS: ABC=wimps
From: Stu
Date: 15 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM

"blame Janet Jackson and the over reaction of a few prudes and soccer moms who never saw a tit."

So there are some people in the world have never seen Michael Jackson then . . .