Fox hunting in Europe

Subject: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 03:22 AM

Ok I know Europe is a bit big and a bit general. But the same kind of questions apply:

1. Is hunting with horses and dogs found?
2. Is a singing culture associated with the hunt?
3. Does anybody know any songs?

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: alanabit
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 03:37 AM

I don't know of it happening in Germany. I wouldn't be surprised to hear of it in another age. There is definitely a hunting culture here, although I don't know about one of hunting with horses. There are any number of hunting songs - Der Jäger längs dem Weiher ging, Ein Jäger aus Kurpfalz are just two. Keep the thread up until the real Germans see it!

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: MudGuard
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 05:43 AM

There are only two ways of hunting in Germany I know of:
one is sitting on a "Hochsitz" (a wooden construction that has a ladder for climbing up and at the top a bench for sitting, often with a roof) and waiting for the deer and roe to appear.

The second involves lots of people with sticks going in a row through the woods beating the bushes, thus driving boars and other animals towards the hunters with the rifles.

I don't think there is a lot of (if any) horse-ridden fox-hunting.
At least in Bavaria we don't have the landscape for it - there is either forest (mostly fir-trees in mono-culture) or fields for grain, corn, ...
Most fields are very big (it was reorganized some decades ago from many small fields to fewer big fields). Hedgerows (or stone walls) like in Ireland or Great Britain to divide the fields are very rare (they might hinder the machinery ...) - therefore the number of small animals (hares, rabbits, pheasants, foxes, partridges ...) is MUCH smaller than in Ireland/UK ==> no need for/sense in hunting. Those few rabbits living here are mostly killed on the roads ...



As for hunting music:
As alanabit mentioned, there are some hunting songs. Searching for "Jäger" ("hunter") on www.ingeb.org lists 88 results - I did not check them ..

But I'd guess there is more "Jagdhorn-Blasen" (playing the "hunting horn"[???] - a simple brass instruments with no valves or holes) than singing


(disclaimer: this is mostly from what I see - as I am no hunter myself, I am not on the inside of hunting in Germany)

MudGuard (from Munich, Germany, thus not only a real German but even better: a real Bavarian)

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:03 AM

Hunting on horseback was done in Germany by the nobility some centuries ago, but only for noble game: deer. It was called Parforce-Jagd. There are still the big round horns in use wich were blown throughout the hunt, called Parforce-Hörner. So it was in France, too.
Nowadays in Germany this kind of hunting is forbidden by law to prevent cruelty to animals.
In the song mentioned above Ein Jäger aus Kurpfalz the hunter orders his horse to be saddled, but nothing about chasing the deer. A line says about this game: Between his legs the deer must be shot.

Foxes are low game and to be killed by peasants. They are usualy traced down to their foxearths, then the dachshounds are sent in. By the subterranean noises the hunters learn the place where the fox defends himself and start digging. If there are too many foxes around the use of poison might be allowed by the authorities.
Following the English example of fox hunting on horseback some horse associations perform sham hunts without foxes. A scent is laid for the dogs to a certain point; first one there is the winner.

There are a lot of hunting songs in Germany (I own a fine song book published by the German Hunting Association), but I still have to meet the first song about fox hunting on horseback.

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Wilfried Schaum
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 08:14 AM

In England: REYNARD THE FOX

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:06 PM

There is hunting an (artificial) fox on horseback in Germany but I doubt it is anything else but a recent import.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Wolfgang
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 06:11 PM

Und dass er danach auch noch Waidmannsheil schreit,
hat alle peinlichst berührt,
es wurd' ein Protestschreiben übereicht,
besonders scharf formuliert.
Doch muss man dem Alten zugute halten, das war bei Hubertus ein prächtiger Blattschuss
und dass er das Wort 'Diplomatenjagd'
nur etwas zu wörtlich genommen hat.

(R. Mey; the German equivalent to Lehrer's Hunting song)

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 13 Nov 04 - 07:20 PM

In Southern Europe, hunting seems mostly to be a question of shooting things. Mainly, but not exclusively, reasonably palatable things (however small; and furred or feathered). I recall being mildly surprised that they didn't shoot frogs as well. These days it is commonly done purely for fun by people who don't actually need the meat (regardless of social class), but it's still "food" hunting, at least in theory. In the old days, aristocratic quarry such as deer and boar were hunted on horseback (and there are songs referring to that), while small game was trapped or shot for the pot by ordinary folk. France didn't suffer Enclosure in the way England did, so poaching wasn't the issue it was here.

I didn't hear of foxes being killed for fun when I lived in Provence (big hunting territory 30 years ago, and probably still is) and most certainly not for food; though I expect they were routinely killed by farmers as seemed expedient.

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 Nov 04 - 05:05 PM

one time I stopped in a hunting lodge(wild boars heads on the wall) and ate jaegershcnitzel. Wished I'd chosen the steak. Nobody was singing.

Subject: RE: Fox hunting in Europe
From: Wolfgang
Date: 16 Nov 04 - 10:42 AM

If you had ordered Zigeunerschnitzel you might have been disappointed too.

Wolfgang