Mary Ann Humphreys

Subject: BS: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:24 AM

Does anyone out there have any information on the Essex (Ingrave) singer Mary Ann Humphreys? Vaughan Williams recorded her in 1909, on wax cylinder (see 'A Century of Song' EFDSS CD02)and the only other thing that I know is that she learned many/most/all of her songs fom her family (see Palmer, 1983).

Subject: RE: BS: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:34 AM

She is still alive and well and singing and playing with Anahata!

Subject: RE: BS: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Rasener
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:15 AM

If its that Mary, then I didn't realise that she was so old!!!!!

"Vaughan Williams recorded her in 1909" :-)

Let me see that would make her at 95 but probably well over the 100.

You are doing well for your age Mary LOL :-)

Subject: Mary Ann Humphies
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 12:03 PM

Ok Who knidnapped the Mary Ann thread?

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Joe Offer
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:02 PM

She was started in "BS," Les, but I moved her up here and combined her with your thread.

John, is the Palmer book Bushes and Briars: Folk Songs Collected by Ralph Vaughan Williams? In Palmer's notes for "The Golden Glove" in that book, he says that Mrs. Humphrys (note spelling) was either 72 or 75 years old when Vaughan Williams transcribed her singing in 1904. I didn't find anything in the book that tolk more about her - but VW's transcriptions of her songs may also appear in other books, I gather.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 01:05 PM

Sorry couldn't see for looking.

M & A were in good voice etc at Whitby. It must be the Shangrila of Manchester effect.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: breezy
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 03:39 PM

Put it down to botox and banjo playing

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:07 PM

There's some amusing souls out there, aren't there? The other Mary Humphreys will kill me for confusing her with RVW's (ex) informant - and besides I don't think the most recent (and still very much alive and singing) Mary Humphreys has a middle name of 'Ann'!

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: kytrad (Jean Ritchie)
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 04:48 PM

...and, according to Palmer's notes (Joe Offer's letter, above), she can't be the one that's 'alive and well and singing with Anahata' at age 175, either... although they say that trad. music can do wonders for one!

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 05:58 PM

The 1901 census lists one Mary Humphreys at Ingrave, aged 66 and born at Laindon in Essex. Additional information is available, but you have to pay for it.

The 1881 census, abstracted at The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, refers to a Mary Ann Humphreys, aged 46, born at Laindon (c.1835), and living at Common Road, Ingrave, with her husband Jonathan. He was aged 42, an agricultural labourer born at Navestock in Essex (c.1839). No children are mentioned.

Vaughan Williams noted 8 songs from Mrs Humphr[e]ys on 25 April 1904: Silvery Silvery; The Cambric Shirt; The Golden Glove; Poacher's Song; Tarry Trowsers; The Saucy Sailor Boy; I'm a Stranger (in this country), and Come Buy me a Hawk and a Hound.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 06:03 PM

I should add that age discrepancies as between census returns and the notes of folk song collectors are not unusual; neither are variant spellings of names. There is a photograph of Mrs Humphr[e]ys' cottage in Frank Dineen's book The Secret of Ingrave.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 20 Nov 04 - 07:14 PM

I know for a fact that she was our representive on Manchester City Council until only a few years since.

As good a women, singer and doer of good and sound music as is .

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: treewind
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 05:06 AM

For the Record, Mary Ann Humphreys (subject of this thread) != Mary Humphreys (alive and well and living in East Anglia with me!)

This one's middle name isn't Ann(e) but the Manchester City council bit is true though little known now. Her sister's called Ann and married to a folkie but that's just confusing the issue with further irrelevancy.

Neither of us is close to 175 yet, though I don't feel to far off the mark this morning.

At least everybody got the surname spelt correctly for a change.

Anahata

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 05:33 AM

OK, I will stop now. I have clearly flogged a smal joke to death, and probably not for the first time

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 09:25 AM

Thanks to Malcolm Douglas for some useful info. (thanks also to the current Mary Humphreys for her patience!).
I started this thread because I am fascinated by the wax cylinder recordings of the historical Mary Humphreys (Frank Dineen's spelling). I think that she was a remarkably fine singer - and the recording, which juxtaposes a lyrical rendering of 'Bushes and Briars' with the rhythmic 'Tarry Trousers' emphasises her skill. Sadly (and frustratingly!) everyone whose attention I have drawn to this recording have tended to dismiss it by remarking that 'she sounds a bit posh' - end of story. Well, yes, her diction is certainly very clear and she may even have been putting on a bit of a posh voice to impress 'Rafe'but that doesn't mean that we should completely dismiss this important historical document and, as singers of English trad. songs, learn from it as we have learned from other old singers like Joseph Taylor.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Joe Offer
Date: 21 Nov 04 - 07:27 PM

Is there an index of Ralph Vaughan Williams wax recordings and transcripts available somewhere? Are any of the recordings available online? I'm aware of Palmer's Bushes and Briars and the few songs RVW collected that are in the Penguin book of English folk Songs, but are there other books of songs he collected?
I gather from Palmer that RVW collected over 800 songs from 1903-1913, and only 16 after that (3 in 1922, 13 in 1926). Apparently, he did not collect full lyrics from most singers, since his primary interest was the tunes. He often used lyrics from printed sources to fill in the missing blanks.
-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: GUEST,Jim Ward
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 12:36 PM

There certainly is a list of all the songs and the singers he collected from with those he recorded noted. I had a copy about 30 years ago but it seems to have taken a walk. I'm sure there must be a copy in the library at C# house.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:11 PM

This thread has given me a good laugh!
I have a photocopy of page 153 from the Journal of the Folk Song Society of 1905-6 where Tarry Trowsers is published. RVW says it was collected from Mrs Humphreys formerly of Laindon, now of Ingrave.
If anyone would like me to copy the words I would be happy to do so.The wax cylinder recording is just a little indistinct, although my namesake's diction is exceptionally good.
Les from Chorlton and John C if you know Dave Bishop, get him to tell you all he knows about Mrs H. He is her greatest fan!

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 03:25 PM

I think I met Dave Bishop at the Song Carriers, would that be he?

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 22 Nov 04 - 04:42 PM

Most definitely, and he lives in Chorlton. PM me for his phone number.

I thought I would post Tarry Trowsers with the ABC of the tune as published in the JFSS 1905-6.


X:1
T:Tarry Trowsers
C:Sung by Mrs Humphreys, formerly of Laindon, now of Ingrave
M:2/4
L:1/8
K:A Dorian
    E|E B B ^c|A A/ B/ (A/G/) !breath!E/ E/|!
w: As |I walked out one |fine sum-mer's morn -ing, The
    A3/2 B/ A G/ F/|G A B2|!
w: morn-ing be-ing both |fine and clear,
    B (B/^c/) d e| A A (B/^c/) d|!
w:There I* heard a |ten-der    moth -er
A3/2 F/ B (B/^c/) | (B/A/) F E2||
w:Talk-ing to her* | daught -er dear.

%%begintext
Published in JFSS 1905-6 page 153. Tune noted by R Vaughan Williams.

As I walked out one fine summer's morning
The morning being both fine and clear
There I heard a tender mother
Talking to her daughter dear.

'Daughter, daughter, I'd have you to marry
Live no longer a single life'
But she says 'Mother. I'd rather tarry
I'd rather wait for my sailor bold'

'Sailors they are given to roving
Into foreign parts they do go
Then they will leave you broken-hearted
And then they'll prove your overthrow.

Don't you hear the great guns rattle
And the small ones make a noise?
When he's in the height of battle
How can he attend to you my dear?'

My mother wants me to wed with a tailor
And not give me my heart's delight,
But give me the man with the tarry trousers
That shines to me like diamonds bright.
%%endtext

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 03:06 PM

Thanks Mary (the current one, that is). Three of us in Chorlton - isn't that amazing!

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 04:15 PM

Is Chorlton a place for a sing around John?

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Cllr
Date: 23 Nov 04 - 06:30 PM

Soory sorry thread hijack

Come to ampthill acoustic club 30 november to see anahata and mary humpreys at the queens head woburn street cllr

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:09 AM

There is a list of songs collected by RVW in an appendix to Michael Kennedy, The Works of Ralph Vaughan Williams, OUP 1964. It doesn't include material noted in collaboration with Ella M Leather (who also sent him cylinders for transcription), or songs originally noted by George Gardiner and Charles Gamblin, some of which RVW re-transcribed with the aid of recordings, but it does cover all the material in the MS collection, with dates and locations. I have a copy somewhere but I couldn't find it the other day.

Most of the cylinder recordings are lost, and those which survive are imperfectly documented. It appears that copies are to be made available online by the Sound Archive of the British Library quite soon:

http://www.collectbritain.co.uk/collections/wax/

There is one to be heard there at present: John Locke of Herefordshire, c.1908, singing Died for Love followed by a hornpipe played on the fiddle. Quite likely recorded by Ella Leather and part of the residual Vaughan Williams material, but I don't know the details.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 01:42 PM

Thanks, again, to Malcolm Douglas for more interesting leads to follow up.
To 'Les in Chorlton', I don't know about singarounds in Chorlton itself but Dave Bishop (who the current Mary mentions above)tells me that there is a traditional singaround, at the Volunteer Pub., on Washway Rd. Sale, every Wednesday night; apparently it starts around 8:30 - 9:00ish - must give it a try sometime.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 24 Nov 04 - 02:24 PM

Me and my mate Ken went a bit ago. It was excellent. Not like any sing-around I haev ever been to and the room was a bit odd, a Buffs room, but songs sung discussed and made the center of what's what. Being idle and living in Chorlton I would go more often if it was in walking difference.

Their is a growing music scene so who knows. We just need a snug with decent accoustics?

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: John C.
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 01:56 PM

Les, I'm sure that Dave Bishop would give you a lift if you asked him nicely.

Subject: RE: Mary Ann Humphreys
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 02:59 PM

That's very kind John and I am sure Ken and I will go to the Volunteer again. I kind of feel that clubs are picking up again. Perhaps the boomers kids have finally cleared off and left us free to do what we like again?