BS: I heard nothing of this?!?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:31 PM

See what I mean Raedwulf. Facist dogma at its best :-(

I would never, ever say I told you so. It is so difficult for anyone who does not live this tripe on a daily basis to recognise it for what it is. Please realise that I am speaking from experience.

So, where is the offer of meeting us, James?

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:40 PM

I hate to say this James, but I love other cultures, and have many black and asian friends may be true, but it's a really piss-poor way to open an argument! It should be obvious why.

And racism, as with any other -ism, doesn't mean that you consider someone better, it means that you treat them differently. I'm sexist - I treat women differently from the way I treat men. It doesn't mean I treat them worse, just differently.

I'm afraid that I am starting to drift towards DaveTG's point of view. Like it or not, you're starting to sound like a party political broadcast of something right of centre (not necessarily as far right as BNP)!

Whilst I'd agree that there is no such thing as positive discrimination (you always discriminate against someone...), it is something that is difficult to express without sounding like a BNP spokeperson, & you're not doing a good job of not!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:44 PM

Oh, I always knew what you meant, Dave. See above. I still don't think you're right. I think James (my apologies for calling you Bradbury, Mr Bradburn!) is making a valid point, I just think he's doing it badly. And now I'm starting to sound patronising, so it's a good time to shut up!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:57 PM

:D - I'm just off to bed, R. Certainly time for me to shut up! But Mr B (Bradbury or Bradburn - No Difference), if I trust my instincts, is just a wind up merchant. When we are still here discussing folk music he will still be here trying to figure out how to get white people to hate black people. Hopefuly, in this forum, he will never suceed. Unfortunatley in others he already has:-(

Peace and love (old hippy jargon...)

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 06:58 PM

I'm not a racialist, a lot of my freinds are coloureds.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:00 PM

Go on then jOhn, what colour are they...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:03 PM

I don't know, folks. I wish things were as clear cut as some people make out. Agreed, no indication that the crime was a racist one. Yet obviously there are those out there that will latch on to the events, and interpret them to fit their own racist message. Thus, racism exists, even if this crime was not driven by racist motives.

To simply say "it's not an issue" is not good enough. Neither is it a solution to try and address one side of the problem (as in "educating the British to understand Muslim cultures"). I am looking at events in the Netherlands, a country I love (I lived there for 7 years) and that I admired for its tolerance. Yet even they have got it wrong, clearly, as the recent murder of a film maker and threats against two politicians prove.

I have no answer, just my own attitude to offer. But I am worried that we are slipping down some path to racist hell, despite our best intentions, driven by a few individuals perhaps, but unable to find effective and acceptable ways to stop them.

And no - this would never be enough to make me vote BNP. I don't think they have the answer to anything. Just more hatred.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Boab
Date: 25 Nov 04 - 07:10 PM

I will; not comment on the motives of the initiator of the thread, or on the BNP SPIN. [They may well be coming from the same source]
   I will say this, though; there is racism in my Country, Scotland. And I think that much covering up is being done. I know this from personal experience, as it is sadly evident in one branch of my family. I would suggest, though, that it is confined to a certain type of individual. You will very often find that "religious" bigotry and racism emanate from an identical source. A quick glance at the sickening behaviour at recent "old firm" games will give proof of that. Both traits were being displayed from the same moronic crapheads on the terracing. Nevertheless, while bigots are almost 100% racist besides, racism does exist in many people who aren't necessarily religious bigots. These twisted mental aberrations are by no means displayed by whits caucasians alone. Both occur in all shades of colour, and in all religions. The religious bigotry is a product of pure ignorance [and the weakness of the "our-god-alone"-besotted mind]. Racism comes from failure to integrate, which in turn makes the lack of the other requisite almost impossible to attain--education. I wish the powers-that-be had a solution . Like many another, I couldn't begin to suggest an easy way. Sad.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:05 AM

No further news from Mr Bradburn?

No handshake yet?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:32 AM

Boab is 100% correct.

Racism occurs when communities fail to integrate.

But how can integration be achieved when the two are so different in culture and aspirations?

Just another symptom of our "democratic" capitalist system.

Im afraid if we dont find another way to live which involves respect for our brothers sisters and fellow creatures, we are all heading for an Orwellian nightmare...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Chris Green
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 07:38 AM

Regarding the original post, the murder of a white kid by Asian kids is obviously utterly repellent. And yes, there's no getting away from the fact that racial tensions do exist in many parts of Britain, which is a growing problem that needs to be addressed. But anyone who seriously thinks that the BNP hold any sort of solution to this problem needs their head read.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:14 AM

No indication that this was a racist murder. 0ner of the purpetrators have been convicted of race murder.

re-read my last post, if you think i am a racist
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Gervase
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:35 AM

Your argument might carry greater weight if you didn't rely on a website endorsing the BNP to back it up.
No-one denies that racism exists. What is at issue in the duscission that has evolved here would seem to be:
1) Is it 'hushed up' and
2) How can it be eradicated.
I think the answer to (1) is a clear No. The case you mention has been aired on network TV news in the UK, and not just in Scotland. One of the reasons the case has not been aired at length is because the trial of two of those involved is still underway, and the UK contempt laws quite rightly prohibit detailed discussion and background until the case is finished.
The answer to (2) is more difficult, but will almost certainly not be helped by the malicious meddling of the white supremacist movement and their attempts to inflame the situation.
I stand by my first comment - this is an attempt at trolling.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Paco Rabanne
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:38 AM

Charlton Heston's wig looks pretty good though doesn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 09:48 AM

Still not coming out from under your stone Mr B?

Wonder why that is of you are not a racist...

:D

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 12:20 PM

Right , we all know the B N P are a racist organisation,but what has that to do with the problem we are trying to discuss.

This forum is full of highly intelligent people from a lot of different countries.
Is shouting "troll" "troll" really the best we can do.

I would like to see a bit of proper debate on what will become a major problem...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 01:24 PM

akenaton is correct. I started this topic asking for your thoughts. I think this topic needs confronting head on, without the risks of being called racist etc, as it is already a big problem, and the way it is dealt with at the moment, i think makes the problem work.

the BNP is a racist organization at the heart. however, many people are tempted by some of its ideas such as asylum etc, as many people are very sick and tired of the asylum mess.

I am not a racist. i dont like false asylum seekers coming here and claiming benefits. that doesnt make me a racist.
i cant blame the asylum seekers one bit. you would be a fool not to give it a go, if another country offered a lifestyle much better than your home country.
but, people are angry at the asylum seekers, rather than at the government, who make England such an appealing place to come to.

got to dash
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:26 PM

Is shouting "troll" "troll" really the best we can do.

Not at all, ake. I have offered, thrice now, to shake the hand of Mr B or at least have it shaken by proxy if another 'catter is nearer! I don't think it will happen but we could all be surprised. However, if it looks like a troll, sounds like a troll and smells like a troll, chances are that it is a troll:-)

As to 'a proper debate on what will become a major problem'.

Firstly, it won't become a major problem if we don't let it. It is not now and never has been. Racism against the majority simply does not exist. It is BNP dogma. Nothing more. The more people that begin to believe it is a 'major problem' the more support they get.

Secondly, crying racism is not a proper debate either. Nor is quoting from right wing web sites. Nor is hiding blatantly racist diatribe behind a veneer of civilised debate.

Finaly, and most worrying, Mr B thinks he is finding allies here at the Mudcat. I would be worried if I were you, ake (akenaton is correct...) Start to look into that pit and you may get dragged in.

Good luck and stay away from the edge;-)

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:37 PM

I learnt something new today. I looked up the BBC report of this trial (here). I never knew "racially-aggravated murder" was an offence. So it looks like the authorities reckon race was definitely an issue. One or two of us have a point to concede to James.

I confess, though, that I can't help feeling the really significant factor in this particular case is still gang respect & territory, rather than race, but that's by the by.

I also agree with Ake, but aside from repeating that I don't think James is a troll (& give him his due - he's not being an anonymous Guest!) as such, I'm afraid I don't have much to add to what's already been said. Racism is a problem, it feeds on ignorance, integration has to come from both sides, & I haven't got a magic wand to wave, or any ground-breaking solutions to suggest...

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:39 PM

Oh, wow, i'm being brainwashed...the BNP suddenly seem like a decent bunch of blokes trying to protect us from those evil immigrants...wow..it's all becoming so clear...

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Raedwulf
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 03:54 PM

Dave - Racism against the majority damn well does exist! You're starting to sound like my Sociology degree ex-colleague! Admittedly, most of the majority may not notice it most of the time, but there are still minorities judging majorities on the basis of race/skin colour. This is racism, just as much as the other way round. In some cases, violently & fatally so.

Also, whilst you're complaining that "the more people that begin to believe it is a 'major problem' the more support they get", this is true of both sides of the coin. I firmly believe that people that go looking for -isms find them. Racism, sexism, Nazism, whatever-ism, you go looking for it, you'll find it. All too often where it doesn't exist, which is one of the major reasons why the BNP make such utter idiots of themselves. Mountains out of molehills & all that... You are making the BNP sound like a 'major' problem'. Support for them is not widespread. I'm not suggesting that they should not be countered, but, equally, vehemence also draws attention to them!

Racism is always a major (i.e. important) problem. The question that needs to be answered is how widespread it is. My personal opinion is that there are a damn sight too many people (both left & right whinge... I mean, wingers!) who are too sensitive about it. But where it can be genuinely identified, it needs to be dealt with. How, I do not know!

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:01 PM

Oh come on BI...Everybody here has comdembed the BNP.
There is a big problem in glasgow.
A very good family friend of mine is Indian and lives in Glasgow, he tells me that the three major communities Pakistani, Indian and Scots have not integrated at all, and have little or no social contact.

I would like to hear some discussion on why this is, and how integration may become possible.
And Dave dont worry about me Im pretty sure- footed regarding racial matter...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:22 PM

"Oh come on BI...Everybody here has comdembed the BNP"

I was being sarcastic...i think we're all big enough recognise propaganda for what it is.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Megan L
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 04:56 PM

In glasgow there was and probably still is a very active community relations councill promoting an integrated community.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:01 PM

The way i see it is this-

Rascism exists to varying degrees in all sections of society and stems from a fear of other cultures, which stems from an ignorance of these cultures, which stems from lack of integration...which stems from rascism. It's a vicious circle. How to break the circle? A concerted effort from all parties to inform and educate, and most importantly frank, honest, open discussion. By stifling this, political correctness has encouraged that which it hoped to eradicate. There are no quick, easy solutions.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 05:02 PM

I just realised i spelled racism wrong all the way through my last post..oopsies...:0)

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 08:05 PM

give him his due - he's not being an anonymous Guest!

Oh yes he is. How many times do I have to offer to meet the bloke before we realise he is just that - an anonymous guest. Just because he calls himslef James Bradburn doesn't make him James Bradburn! For the 5th (or 6th) and final time. Come on James! Make yourself known. Let us know where you are and which folk club you go to. Let us know that someone can meet you in real life and let the rest of the 'cat know if you are a beligerent racist or simply worried that the blacks may take over...;-)

Raedwulf. If this guy does not respond this time will you admit that he is just out to incite hatred? In advance I admit that you are right - Racism against the majority does exist. It just doesn't matter! Because we are in the majority we can just shrug it off and get on with our lives. Those in the minority may not have that luxury.

I was once called a 'white nigger' by a crowd of young lads in Antigua. In the safety of the white resort it didn't seem to matter but while I was out there jogging through their townships it was pretty scary!

Cheers

DtG
(Of to bed now - 1am in the UK. CU Soon:-) )

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: dianavan
Date: 26 Nov 04 - 11:09 PM

Racisim and stereotyping exists, whether you're white, black or all the shades between. It is only possible to discriminate on the basis of race, however, if you are in the more powerful, dominant group.

d

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James The Guest
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:34 AM

"Dave the Gnome," dont be pathetic. Just because i dont want to meet you, therefore that PROVES that i am racist does it?
If i meet you, then i am not a racist? So racism means whether a guest poster choses to meet Dave the Gnome or not. il inform the Oxford Dictionary right away!

Do people think that too much of political correctness is making relations between ethnic groups worse?

i want this country to work. A perfect situation for me is that everyone can just get on with each other and be British, no matter what colour skin then have etc. i found it interesting that one of my Sikh friends had an arguement with someone, insisting that he was British, and he is proud to be british.

Do you think that the allegiance things that immigrants have to do in America, make people have more pride in living in America, as they feel they have been accepted and are less likely to feel like a minority?

The women on the radio complaining that Rememberance Day should stop because it may offend ethnic minorities. I think this PC stuff is very detrimental, as first people get angry at the ethnic minorities (but they dont care what we celebrate.)
Also it keeps pointing out about ethnic minorities and how delicate they are. Just let us all get on with it as British Citizens.
Also it shows that some people dont mind offending british people. Stopping Rememberance Day so not to offend ethnic minorities, but not caring about offending british people.

all the best
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:43 AM

Not at all, James. Not wanting to meet anyone does not prove you are a racist. Meeing someone in real life will prove you are not spineless and just stirring things up though. Come to my folk club if you don't want to give your whereabouts away. The White Lion, Swinton, Manchester, every Monday.

I don't want you to prove anything - just show us you are not anonymous and can have a proper discussion with people. I will even buy you a pint.

Now how can you refuse that offer?

Cheers

Dave the Gnome

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 01:13 PM

There is no way in hell i'd pledge allegiance to Britian, or indeed anywhere...and i was born here...

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:27 PM

Dave the Gnome,
I am not here to stir things up, although i knew topics like this allways start good discussions on this forum, as there are folkies from both ends of the political spectrum.
If i am ever up Manchester way, i will try and get along to your folk club.
The reason i chose to remain as a guest, is that as soon as i mention resenting the asylum mess, positive discrimination etc (not the asylum seekers themselves, i dont blame them for coming here!) etc, someone allways shouts "RACIST, and its not a good brush to be tarred with.

Your oppinions.........
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: dianavan
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:41 PM

Guest, James -

It would be ideal if immigrants can become British while maintaining their ethnic identity (including their language). That means that all of the different cultural groups respect the holidays and traditions of the others.

The idea of abolishing Remembrance Day because it might be offensive to certain minorities is absurd.

It is easy to tar just about anyone with the "racist brush" because most of us do have an ethnocentric way of looking at things and it takes alot of awareness to be careful not to offend. On the other hand, I have found that those that are quick to pull the "race card" are often racist themselves. Its an easy way to put people down and end discussion.

d

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 03:50 PM

Who could possibly be offended by Remembrance Day? Am i missing something here?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: greg stephens
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 04:15 PM

This james Bradburn(who seems to be implying he is still at school, in some secret and unspecified part of this glorious country of ours. But he ddoes seem to have a lot in common with another similar character calling himself "Josh" who was around a while back, spouting the same old stuff. So, James,tell us where your school is , and something of your musical preferences. Most of us here are quite old, so we will be sympathetic if you political opinios are a little naive, if you are relly still at school. What exams have you taken recently?

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 08:00 PM

No, James, I realise now you are not here to stir things up. I should have known that comments like for example, our cities Sikh community laid a wreath at the Rememberence Day Service show that you are fully integrated. Who knows, the black people will be doing all sorts of things that us real humans do in a few years...

I know that you will not show yourself. After all it is a known fact that us pinko left wing communists will beat the shit out of you poor misunderstood BNP aggitators while the right wing are well known for their love of peace and tollerance;-)

Now then will anyone who was saying that James is just wanting to promote healthy discussion please stand up and be counted...

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 27 Nov 04 - 08:41 PM

The Pakistani ,who was 20yrs old was found guilty yesterday of "racially aggravated murder".
First conviction for this crime in Scotland.
He acted with three others in the abduction and murder. The three have still to be arrested as far as I know.

Im old enough to remember Enoch Powells "rivers of blood" speech, And how it virtually ended his political career.
Maybe he was more far seeing than most of us realised at the time.
I was a member of the Young Communists at that time and we spent a lot of energy campaigning against what we percieved as blatant racism.

Looking back now I can see Powell was sincere in what he said, and had the courage to sacrifice his career for his beliefs.
How many of todays politician would do that?

I still dont agree with what Powell said, but given how the different ethnic communities in Britain are just not integrating, I cant argue with his foresight.

Religious and cultural ideologies are the biggest problem,a problem which is compounded by religious teaching in schools and the new labour abomination "faith schools"

Religion should be kept out of education all together, and faith schools banned forthwith.
It is we, the older generation ,who instill racism and bigotry in our children....Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: greg stephens
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 04:32 AM

Akenaton: I really can't let you get away with describing"faith schools" as a "new labour abomination". Churches have been running educational establishments since the year dot throughout Britain, with obvious results, good and bad,(How are religious rivalries in Glasgow these days?). Whether they are on balance a positive or negative force could be discussed, but to suggest they are a new idea is total rubbish, and you know it.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 12:10 PM

Sorry Greg.. What I meant was that "faith schools " were being promoted by Blair and new labour.

Seems Blair like Bush has his own personal agenda,regarding religion,whether it is good for us or not .

I repeat, religion and politics should be kept apart.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 01:31 PM

I agree there...secularity of state, and secularity of education.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 28 Nov 04 - 05:30 PM

Dunno what to say any more really. This thread was started purely with the intention of winding people up against the asian community. Hopefully it hasn't suceeded here. I should have just ignored it but didn't:-(

James will never show himself in public because he does not exist. He is the unaccepatble face of 'upmarket' racism. At best he can win a few converts from the people stupid enough to listen.

I have, unfortunately, fell into the trap of giving him a much longer platform than he deserves. For me it ends now. I will not give his racist nonsense any more house room.

James and whoever is pulling your strings. You will never win. Most people are too sensible. Those who are not are not worth winning over.

Just one more thing before I go. Anyone care to lay odds on Mr B turning up at Swinton?

DtG

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 02:50 AM

Dave the gnome. how come everybody else can add their views, yet you have to go on about wanting to meet me, laying odds on it, screaming racist, calling me josh, and other rantings.
"I know that you will not show yourself. After all it is a known fact that us pinko left wing communists will beat the shit out of you poor misunderstood BNP aggitators while the right wing are well known for their love of peace and tollerance;-)"
I reckon that communism has murdered more people than facism. could be wrong, but Stalin, killed 3 times as many people as Hitler.
i dont hate communists either. i hope that we all have the same end goal, just different ways of getting there. everybody surely wants a world that works?

James Bradburn

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: chris nightbird childs
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 02:54 AM

Don't pay attention to trolls.............

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: dianavan
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:07 AM

Bradburn says, "If this victim was black, we would never hear the last of it.

Notice how the inquiry has been rejected, as it is not "politically correct"

Bradburn is worse than a racist pig. He also hates anyone who is not racist.

You're right - NO MORE POSTS

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,Terry K
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:36 AM

To me the main problem seems to be that everyone gets carried away with what is racism and what is not, and simply end up slagging each other off so that the real issue does not get discussed at all.

The fact that various ethnic groups do not get on with the indigent population, or with each other, has nothing to do with whether someone or other is a racist or not a racist. It has nothing to do with ideology at all. It will not be solved by all the enlightened people agreeing not to be racist. It will not be solved by Governments trying to legislate against the problems.

The problems have always existed, and always will, unless someone takes a look at what the fundamental problem really is. If everyone keeps hiding behind this taunt of "racist" then nothing will ever get done. It is quite easy for anyone to accuse someone of being racist. Where does that get us? Absolutely nowhere.

Akenaton seems to be lone voice positively attempting to look at solutions instead of the usual dreary rhetoric that pervades these threads, each trying to outdo each other in the "I'm SO not a racist" stakes.

So what is the fundamental problem? What are the solutions? I have no idea, but I do know that throughout history, and all over the world, people "of difference" have squabbled with each other, they continue to do so, and I believe will continue to do so forever.

All I know is that refusing to consider the points that someone makes, whatever their motivation, by crying "racist" is not helpful.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: GUEST,James Bradburn
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:33 PM

Terry K, do you think that we can ever totally live in harmony, different ethnic groups, or do you think it will allways be a fine line, with all groups having to be careful?

Why do some ethic groups integrate better into the british way of life. Do you think that for example, banning santa at the birmigham bullring, incase it may offend ethnic minorities, will be detrimental to integration, as we are in britian now, and unless the message gets across that ethnic groups have to respect our festivals, its not going to work?

"Bradburn is worse than a racist pig. He also hates anyone who is not racist."
dianavan, shut up about the racist thing. At no point have i said that i believe that one race is better than another, i am not racist, end of story.

Is racism allways going to occur, is it a natural thing. someone who lives in manchester probably believes that their football team is better than Liverpool, and visa versa. pride in your own, and wanting your own to survive over others in natural. one species of animal only helps its own really. We are programmed to want the continuation of our species. That is why soldiers in WW1 found it very difficult, to kill (only 2% shot to kill the enemy,) this is of course, infantry, rather than machine gunners and mortars, air strikes etc.
A bear is going to want to help its own species over a koala, that is only natural. Can racism ever be removed totally?

all the best
James

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Megan L
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 03:36 PM

I wish you'd all shut up and leave my dambed city alone.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:39 PM

Megan.... does your city of today bear any resemblance to my Glasgow of the 50s and 60s?
On the surface its changed completely, but dig deeper and the shameful sectarianism which stained the souls of its inhabitants, has just been replaced by ethnic tensions even more disturbing.
When the people of Glasgow were made redundant by the Capitalist machine, they lost more than their jobs...Ake

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Rt Revd Sir jOhn from Hull
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 04:45 PM

James-humans are the same species, you fucking idiot.

Subject: RE: BS: I heard nothing of this?!?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 29 Nov 04 - 07:57 PM

Oh Well - Unless I've lost count this is the hundredth