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BS: Kissinger has paved the way (2023 Obit)

dianavan 18 Dec 04 - 11:17 PM
Peace 18 Dec 04 - 11:22 PM
GUEST,marks 19 Dec 04 - 12:06 AM
dianavan 19 Dec 04 - 12:48 AM
GUEST 19 Dec 04 - 12:55 AM
GUEST,marks 19 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM
dianavan 19 Dec 04 - 12:54 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Dec 04 - 01:11 PM
CarolC 19 Dec 04 - 01:15 PM
GUEST,marks 19 Dec 04 - 02:58 PM
CarolC 19 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM
McGrath of Harlow 19 Dec 04 - 03:50 PM
GUEST,marks 20 Dec 04 - 01:24 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 04 - 02:01 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 02:06 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 03:57 PM
GUEST,marks 20 Dec 04 - 04:54 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 05:01 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 05:08 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 05:24 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 05:36 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 05:44 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 05:45 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 05:51 PM
MarkS 20 Dec 04 - 05:54 PM
Once Famous 20 Dec 04 - 06:02 PM
dick greenhaus 20 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 06:29 PM
McGrath of Harlow 20 Dec 04 - 07:05 PM
catspaw49 20 Dec 04 - 09:49 PM
CarolC 20 Dec 04 - 10:28 PM
Jack Campin 30 Nov 23 - 07:11 PM
Mrrzy 30 Nov 23 - 09:47 PM
Stilly River Sage 30 Nov 23 - 10:58 PM
Jack Campin 01 Dec 23 - 04:26 AM

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Subject: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: dianavan
Date: 18 Dec 04 - 11:17 PM

I'm sorry that I do not remember the source of this paste but I found it interesting in as much as Kissinger is still running amok. Until Kissinger and his proteges are stopped, it doesn't really matter who the president of the U.S.A. might be. Kissinger controls D.C. and The New World Economic Order. Lets just hope that if we can ever get Pinochet to trial, another country will arrest Kissinger or, better yet, someone will make a citizen's arrest.

"An indictment of Henry Kissinger for genocide, crimes against humanity, and war crimes would include (but not be confined to) the following.

VIETNAM: Kissinger scuttled peace talks in 1968, paving the way for Richard Nixon's victory in the presidential race. Half the battle deaths in Vietnam took place between 1968 and 1972, not to mention the millions of civilians throughout Indochina who were killed.

CAMBODIA: Kissinger persuaded Nixon to widen the war with massive bombing of Cambodia and Laos. No one had suggested we go to war with either of these countries. By conservative estimates, the U.S. killed 600,000 civilians in Cambodia and another 350,000 in Laos.

BANGLADESH: Using weapons supplied by the U.S., General Yahya Khan overthrew the democratically elected government and murdered at least half a million civilians in 1971. In the White House, the National Security Council wanted to condemn these actions. Kissinger refused. Amid the killing, Kissinger thanked Khan for his "delicacy and tact."

CHILE: Kissinger helped to plan the 1973 U.S.-backed overthrow of the democratically elected Salvador Allende and the assassination of General René Schneider. Right-wing general Augusto Pinochet then took over. Moderates fled for their lives. Hit men, financed by the CIA, tracked down Allende supporters and killed them. These attacks included the car bombing of Allende's foreign minister, Orlando Letelier, and an aide, Ronni Moffitt, at Sheridan Circle in downtown Washington.

EAST TIMOR: In 1975 President Ford and Secretary of State Kissinger met with Indonesia's corrupt strongman Suharto. Kissinger told reporters the U.S. wouldn't recognize the tiny country of East Timor, which had recently won independence from the Dutch. Within hours Suharto launched an invasion, killing, by some estimates, 200,000 civilians."

If we can't stop Kissinger, we will never be able to stop Bush. Kissinger is proof that you can get away with murder!


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Peace
Date: 18 Dec 04 - 11:22 PM

From a google

Henry Kissinger is Not Our Chancellor!

Lots of sites on that page have used it. FYI.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:06 AM

"CAMBODIA: Kissinger persuaded Nixon to widen the war with massive bombing of Cambodia and Laos."

Er, didn't the North Vietnamese Army, coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail through Laos and Cambodia and crossing the border near Tay Ninh to attack toward Saigon, have something to do with the bombing?


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:48 AM

Cambodia was a neutral country! 600,000 Cambodians were killed by the illegal bombing.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:55 AM

That was the warmup. Pol Pot continued the genocide.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM

"Cambodia was a neutral country! 600,000 Cambodians were killed by the illegal bombing."

I suppose the North Vietnamese Army coming through Cambodia did not respect Cambodian neutrality.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: dianavan
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 12:54 PM

I do not know what you mean by your last statement, GUEST Mark. The Cambodian people were not respected by anyone. They had nothing to say about the North Vietnamese marching through their country or the American bombs that killed them. That event paved the way for Pol Pot.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:11 PM

But he was only obeying orders...


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 01:15 PM

It is probably safe to say that Pol Pot would never have happened had the US not bombed Cambodia. And if that's the case, Henry Kissinger has the blood of all of the people killed by Pol Pot on his hands as well.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 02:58 PM

Or alternatively, had the US bombed Cambodia earlier in the war, when, say, LBJ was in power in 1968, the North Vietnamese might not have overrun the South Vietnamese after the American pullout, and Prince Sihanouk might not have been vulnerable to the Khmer Rouge in the first place.
One could also make the case that if anybody has the blood of the Cambodian people on their hands, it would be the congress during the Ford presidency, which cut off all aid for the South Vietnamese, allowing the North to prevail, and the follow on events in Laos and Cambodia to happen without intervention.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:04 PM

Perhaps you can help me understand where the US gets the authority to be bombing any countries, marks. Had the US not been so keen to keep the Vietnamese people from gaining their independence from colonization, and had the government of the US given Ho Chi Minh the assistance he requested so he wouldn't need to get it from the Soviet Union, there never would have been any Viet Cong problem in the first place.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 19 Dec 04 - 03:50 PM

In case you didn't notice, it was the Vietnamese who got rid of Pol Pot. And the Americans punished them for it, and continued to back his regime.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 01:24 PM

CarolC - What you say is right, but you cannot change history after the fact to make it the way it ought to have been. Sure, US support for Ho Chi Minh in the early 50s would have changed subsequent events for the better. Sure, the Eisenhower had the right idea when he sought to limit intervention to the least possible means. Sure Kennedy made a major error in expanding the US role in what was otherwise a regional civil war. Sure, LBJ compounded that mistake by escalating the US role after Kennedy.

However, the only cards we have to play are the ones we have on the table at the time of the deal, and the issue of making Kissinger out to be a criminal for the bombing of Cambodia, in my view, ignores the role played by the North Vietnamese using neutral Cambodia as a route south to attack the American and allied forces there. That fact is one of those delt cards we wish we did not have to play, but we can't choose not to. I would argue that given the military situation on the ground at that place at that time, bombing Cambodia was the right thing to do.

And McGrath, I sure did notice it was the Vietnamese who got rid of Pol Pot, shortly after the abortive invasion of Vietnam by China.
In retrospect, America shold have welcomed the Cambodian liberation, but once again you cannot change history to what it ought to have been!

I suspect that we are probably more in agreement in our views than the direction this thread is taking would indicate. On the issue of Kissengerian criminality relative to Cambodia though, we may need to cordially disagree.

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 02:01 PM

Once you get in a fight you have to do whatever it takes to win, including killing enormous numbers of innocent people? Even when you are in the wrong?

That would presumably mean Saddam Hussein should walk free.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 02:06 PM

CarolC - What you say is right, but you cannot change history after the fact to make it the way it ought to have been.

No, but we certainly can hold people responsible for what they have done and the decisions they've made which, I think is the point of this thread. And if we do that, instead of giving our own home grown war criminals a free pass, maybe our own people might think twice before committing war crimes in the future.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 03:57 PM

Man, talk about not getting over your life in the sixties.

Do you all still wear your bell bottoms, also?


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: GUEST,marks
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 04:54 PM

Martin

Thanks for the reality check!

Instead of rearguing the 60s, let me wish all of you a great Holiday Season and a Happy and Prosperous New Year!

Peace

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:01 PM

Cool, guest Marks.

I don't know why someone like dianavan would start a thread like this, but considering it's about Kissinger, I have my supicions. Now, if she would just take those blacklight posters of Grand funk railroad down.   What good is it discussing that tired old crap any more?

A happy holiday to you, also.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:08 PM

Interesting perspective considering the fact that this subject was never really adequately addressed in the 60s. And for me, this is all new stuff. I didn't know about Kissinger's war crimes back then. But just because it happened a long time ago still doesn't make it right. There is no statute of limitations on murder. Or do you two deep thinkers believe that we should create a statute of limitations on murder? You obviously believe that people should be allowed to get away with whatever they want. Isn't that supposed to be the "liberal" perspective?

I stopped wearing bell bottoms when I was fifteen years old. I was a member of the fashion cutting edge when I switched to the original straight leg levis with the button fly back in the early 1970s. I still wear them but with a zipper fly now.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:24 PM

Ok, CarolC. Early 70s if it will make you happy.

No one is going to jail for murder. Kissinger is not going to the Hague. He's going to the deli to get a bowl of matzoh ball soup and a corned beef sandwich.

I really don't care if you have a zipper or buttons, though I suppose you can't get that tremendously huge bush of yours caught in buttons as easily as a zipper.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:36 PM

I must say, marks, I have grown used to seeing Martin Gibson trivializing the deaths of innocent men, women, and children, but until today, I have not been familiar enough with your postings to know that you also enjoy trivializing the deaths of innocent men, women, and children. I'm sorry to see that.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:44 PM

Guest, Marks

don't let this broad push you around. she's just looking to yank your chain. Kissinger is Guilty in her special court but he is still walking around enjoying his life so I guess the world court is not listening to CarolC and rightfully so.

she's known for her anti-american agenda along with her anti-Israel agenda.

she has nothing better to do than collect welfare in her trailer and sit around and hypothesize over something that she knows little about.

Viet Nam and the Nixon era is long over. i lived through it. What difference would it make discussing this crap now. The future is so much more important.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:45 PM

I rest my case.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:51 PM

Yeah, you sure do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: MarkS
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 05:54 PM

Hey all = Sorry for the guest label. I reset my cookie so now I am back as a member!

As I said before

Peace

Mark


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Once Famous
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:02 PM

same to you Mark!


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:15 PM

Does anyone agree that there's something fishy about going to war with another power and not informing Congress? or the public?


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 06:29 PM

And in regards to the future, I don't see how we can expect the leaders of today and tomorrow to really care about the "rule of law" and about what is right if we don't hold the leaders of yesterday accountable for their actions. Isn't that why the war crimes tribunals were formed after WWII? To punish and to serve as an example? And were they not still trying and convicting former war criminals from WWII right up until a couple of decades ago (by which time they were all either caught or dead)? And if they found someone from the Nazi regime who could be tried and convicted for war crimes today, would they not do it? Of course they would, and they would be correct in doing so.

But we hold our own war criminals to an entirely different standard than we hold the war criminals of other countries. They know it and that's why the leaders of the US act with impunity. They know they can literally get away with murder. And they do.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 07:05 PM

It's now thirty five years or so on from Cambodia and Vuetnam and all that - so of course "move on it's ancient history".

If someone had said that about Nazi war criminals in, say, 1980, they would have been told to shove it, and quite rightly so.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: catspaw49
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 09:49 PM

Y'all can argue this one anyway you want to til hell freezes over as the topic is still valid and all but that's not why I'm here.

See, I'm due for some new glasses and every time I read this thread title I keep thinking it says, "Kissinger has passed away."......and I feel all nice and warm inside for a second or two. Well, that's the way it goes. The good die young and the pricks live forever. I'm thinking about starting to act like a real jerkwad in the hopes of at least picking up a few years...........'Course on that basis this Martin Gibson guy oughta' live to be about 175..........

Spaw


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: CarolC
Date: 20 Dec 04 - 10:28 PM

He's already 300 years old, Spaw. One of the "Undead", I think.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Jack Campin
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 07:11 PM

Another jobbie down the toilet of history today.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way
From: Mrrzy
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 09:47 PM

Ah, Spaw.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way (2023 Obit)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Nov 23 - 10:58 PM

I see a few of the old hotheads in this thread. #GoodTimes

Kissinger got to live to 100.

Spaw: The good die young and the pricks live forever.

Well, not forever, but for a very long time. (Good to see Spaw's voice again.)

I'll give Anthony Bourdain the last word: An old quote where Anthony Bourdain called Henry Kissinger a 'murderous scumbag' is making the rounds (on X, but in other places as well)
The late celebrity chef Anthony Bourdain was famously unfiltered, and didn't mince any words when writing about former Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

"Once you've been to Cambodia, you'll never stop wanting to beat Henry Kissinger to death with your bare hands," wrote Bourdain in his 2001 book, A Cook's Tour.

The book chronicles Bourdain's world travels, as he experienced different cultures and culinary traditions. His chapter on Cambodia chronicled the local delicacies Bourdain sampled, and also delved into the country's tragic history.

In it, Bourdain went on to call Kissinger a "treacherous, prevaricating, murderous scumbag" and even likened Kissinger to Slobodan Miloševic, the former Serbian leader tried for crimes against humanity.


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Subject: RE: BS: Kissinger has paved the way (2023 Obit)
From: Jack Campin
Date: 01 Dec 23 - 04:26 AM

Bizarre story:

When Likud wanted to kill Kissinger


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