Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment

Subject: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Susan T.
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:14 AM

I'd like to hear the opinions of singers who use the guitar to accompany themselves in live performance. What knowledge 'that you later learned' would have "really helped" had you known it in the beginning.

I'm starting with two chord songs (strumming - and later, simple fingerpicking patterns.) I like what I hear (so does my husband) and I have come a long way. I use the first three frets and I'm very happy with open chords for now (If I never choose to add barre chords, it will not be a concern of mine). I now realize (as a self-taught guitarist), that the guitar is not hard to learn if you practice each day.

Any tips you can offer about the guitar (folk guitar), developing and becoming a better guitarist, live performing, and anything else that you feel might be of help is appreciated.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:21 AM

For fifty or sixty quick responses, check out this recent thread on "Guitar As Accompaniment."

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Susan T.
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:24 AM

Thanks,
Suzie

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: DonMeixner
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:29 AM

Hi Susan,

The guitar can be a great resource as an instrument. It is versatile and it is also limiting. The first thing to do is decide what you are.

1. A guitarist.

2. A singer

3. A singer who is a guitarist.

Jean Redpath always said she used the guitar as a visual aid because people weren't used to hearing some one just sing.

Learn to play a song in one key. Then put a capo on the guitar and play the song elswhere in the same key but using differnt chords.

Songs in D may run D, G, and A, in the open. Capo at the seconf fret and play C, F, and G. Now you may have some lower tones or different sound shapes that allow you more color in your vocal style.

Because of problems with my hands I find my self playing more the middle of the neck with a capo. This allows me closer fret distances but it also opens up those different shapes and colors I mentioned. And at the same time it is a little limiting to me.

My best guitar advice is experiment and listen. And do a search in the data base for similar topics and find a world of advice there in.

Good luck and welcome aboard

Don

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 11:41 AM

I am a singer who has accompanied himself on guitar for 40 years. A few things I have learned along the way:

* Mix up the order of your songs with different keys. i.e. try not to do 2 in a row in the same key, especially at similar tempos.

* Use dynamics in your volume to compliment the effectiveness of dynamics in your voice. bring it up. bring it down.

* Use a capo effectively to get different and more effective tones for a break.

* You try to give your voice personality. give your guitar a personality also.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: PoppaGator
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 12:20 PM

Even more germaine to this discussion of guitar accompaniment *for a beginner* is another recent thread entitled "Folk Guitar Accompaniment."

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Blissfully Ignorant
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 12:59 PM

Learn how to change strings quickly, in case they break.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: alanabit
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 01:15 PM

Learn to use a pick properly and you won't need to change broken strings!
For once, I find myself agreeing with every word Martin Gibson has written.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 02:16 PM

Actually, a lot of broken strings happen because of improper winding of the string.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Peace
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:09 PM

It helps also to put graphite in the grooves of the nut. Faster equalization of tension on the string.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: muppitz
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:26 PM

Martin, would it be possible for you to elaborate on that last comment please, as I have problems with breaking strings frequently!

muppitz x

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: breezy
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:29 PM

singing in private is not the same as singing out.

Use basic keys of D C G and learn the chord families

a capo will prove useful as migyt a tuner ,to save time as well as to tune the guitar.

familiarise yourself with at least a thump pick if you intend to use the fingers, finger picks depend on if you play a steel strung job or if you have good nails.

Concentrate on the singimg and play quietly

The secret is to play everyday.

Good luck

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Once Famous
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:36 PM

mrrzy

When you wind the string around the post, it should start winding from the bottom up. I try to start the string in the post hole so that I get 4 good full winds on the string without it overlapping on itself. The last wind should be near the top of the post so it breaks at a heighth that is about where the nut is. I usually let my strings sit and stretch for about 24 hours before I snip off the excess.

Get a nice string winder tool, the one I believe made by Planet Waves. It's about $10 and worth it. It has a good pin puller and cutter built in.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 03:55 PM

make sure you're around when the money changes hands.

choose the key of the song by how your voice pitches, rather than what chords you can play - there are always ways to simplify accompaniments and play it with the chord shapes you know. If need be - have a more experienced guitarist to figure out the chords for you. Sing to him and let him tell you what your keys are.

Buy a tuner that lights up - so you can see it on a dark stage. only put cheap batteries in - else get rechargeables - although really good tuners like the intellituner turn themselves off.

buy as good quality an instrument as you can afford, but be aware there are a few rotten rogue expensive instruments out there. If it feels ugly - it probably is. Get an instrument that YOU like - no matter what anybody else tells you.

always get a hotel if you're too tired to drive home, but don't leave your guitar in the car - always unpack - no matter how tired you are - no exceptions to this.

take out quite a few credit cards before you quit your regular job - getting credit as a musician sometimes isn't as easy.

Never dismiss a technique or a style that you can't feel sympatico with. There is stuff to be learned from absolutely everybody - even other beginners! In fact particularly at the start when you are all tackling the same problems. But later on it is easy to close your mind to a style you don't admire - we've all done that. Narrowing of the mind is the first steps towards getting old. Fight it!

all the best.
Big Al

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Mudlark
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:01 PM

One of the great things about being a good guitarist, is that you can make simple melodies, repetitious songs, etc. much more intereesting. As a minimal guitarist, using the instrument just as backup to voice, I've tried to figure out ways to make simple songs less boring by using easy tricks like singing bits with no instrumentation, playing melody to emphasize certain phrases, especially if the melody can be found easily within the chord, changing tempo, delivering ballads with real feeling. Pick up a few simple bass runs but don't overuse them. Mostly, if you like what you're hearing, especially if you practice a lot, I suspect ;you're doing OK. Keeping oft repeated songs fresh is sometimes a challenge. Have fun...making music is a wonderful end in itself.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Peter T.
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:06 PM

Rick Fielding's rule (unlearned by most open mike singers I have heard): remember you are there to entertain the audience, not yourself.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Wesley S
Date: 29 Dec 04 - 05:17 PM

One of my favorite pieces of advise { I think I heard Pete Seegar say this } is that you should always end your rehearsal time playing something you can do well. That way your last memory of playing your instrument is a good one.

Also - A lot of people use way too much energy in the chording hand. Learn how to play the chords so that you don't wear out your hand. Play firmly with the right hand and lightly with your left. Assuming that you're right handed.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Uncle_DaveO
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:35 AM

DonMeixner said:

The first thing to do is decide what you are.

1. A guitarist.

2. A singer

3. A singer who is a guitarist.

Well said, as far as it goes. But I add another category, for myself:

4. A story-teller who sings and plays guitar (or banjo).

Dave Oesterreich

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Suzie
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 09:50 AM

Thanks to all of you! I can't believe all the information I'm gaining from this and the other related threads!

Love,
Suzie

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Josh in L.A.
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:06 AM

Great thread! I'm a self-taught guitarist who has never understood the following: I play in the keys of C,E,G,A and D. When playing in those keys, if I put a capo on any fret, do I still play the chord shapes "of the key" I'm playing in? I've read other capo threads, but, couldn't find the direct answer to this. I will ignore any "flame" comments.

Josh

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Peter T.
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:15 AM

Of course you can play the same chord shapes -- that is part of the fun of it.   If you can do this, you can accompany someone else who is playing in the original key -- it is a great way to thicken up a duet sound.

I guess the thing to avoid is total reliance on the capo -- bar chords and other shapes that you move up the neck give you much more flexibility over time.

yours,

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:15 AM

Not flaming, but I don't get your question. What I think you are looking for is:

When you play a three chord song in the key of D you are playing D as the first chord, G as the 4th chord, and A as the fifth chord.

If you play the same song with your capo on the second fret, a C configuration becomes your first chord, an F configuration becomes your 4th chord, and a G configuration becomes your 5th chord, but you are still playing in the key of D.

This is called transposing.

If you put the capo on second fret and use the same chord configurations (D,G,A) you are now actually playing in the key of E.

learning how to transpose chords requires a capo and knowing how to count.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: GUEST,Josh
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:25 AM

Martin,

You're right on man. I'll start looking into figuring transposing out.

Peace,
Josh

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: DonMeixner
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:30 AM

Generally speaking:

Play a song in "C" shapes (C, F < G or G7) in the open and you are playing in the key of "C". Put your capo on the 4th fret and play those same "C" shapes and your are now playing in "E". But you have the bennefit of those nice bass runs that "C" provides.

"C" Shapes
capoed at 1st fret = Key of "C#"
at the 2nd fret = "D"
at the 3rd fret = "D#"
at the 4th fret = "E"

and so on.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: Once Famous
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:42 AM

Don, you are right, but it all depends what you are looking for in a sound. Playing without the capo in the key of E for sure does not give you those bass runs in 4th fret C, but it now gives you that bluesy E configuration sound.

Finding the right chord configuration for a specific key can have major impact on how the song is presented.

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: DonMeixner
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:48 AM

Exactly right Martin, I was more trying to explain the use of a capo to a beginner than suggesting how keys should be used. I am big proponent of the right Chord shape, not necessarily just the right key for the job.

Don

Subject: RE: Singers : Use Of Guitar As Accompaniment
From: alanabit
Date: 30 Dec 04 - 10:51 AM

Good stuff from all the musicians on this thread. The capo can be a Godsend, of course, but I will go along with Peter T's cautionary word about over reliance on it. You can use your favourite runs in most keys by using a capo, but the further up the neck you go, the more resonance you will have to sacrifice from your bass strings. The other disadvantage, as you progress, is that it will make less of the fretboard available to you. Use a capo by all means, but keep on leaning bar chords and runs and chord inversions, which you can use in other positions.
You do not always even need full chords. If you are playing in E, for example, you only need to fret two or three strings most of the time. You can get some lovely effects just sliding these shortened chord forms up and down the neck. (It is like lot of things in life -you can make up for not being really good by learning to cheat better!)