For those who hate RAP!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:16 PM

It will be interesting to see how much of the rap music is still around and being revived in, say, twenty years from now. How much of it will be carried down over one hundred years? Basically, that seems to be the province of folk and classical music. Maybe that is the real test of a style.

I'm way over forty and I have listened to some rap music, but it just doesn't really interest me. I am going to sound like a complete wrinkly here, but why do these guys seem to have to hold on to their crotches while performing?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:20 PM

Jacqui! You've just given me an idea for pepping up my performances! ROFL!!
S:0)
PS, sorry you and Kendall didn't get to G'boro on NYE. Hope you make it next time you're back here.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:33 PM

Willie-o, your logic is flawed. I have also heard a hundred people pronounce they 'hate rap'. Guess what, it's their sorry way of bringing 'current' their traditional sentence which was (stop me if you've heard this before) "I like all kinds of music except acid rock". They're generally tuneless, clueless and are really trying to say they're not really into music and they like lite pop. Pity them, but classify them racists? Good grief, escape from your PC world before it's too late!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 05:54 PM

I also like good books such as WAR AND PEACE, but I don't like comic books. Does that make me an old fool?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 07:19 PM

I dunno, do you hold your crotch while reading Tolstoy? It proves nothing, but I'm just curious..........

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 08:56 PM

yeah i hate sprouts too..
my wife loves 'em..

the compromise just added another 5 mins to overall cooking time
of xmas dinner
while sprouts were boiled separately from all other vegetable..


but yes i gotta face up to admit

I AM A SPROUTIST..

sorry..

and last night new years revellers were dancing enthusiastically
to top hip hop/rap pop tunes on the juke box
in the pub we all normally go to local live folk & country blues session..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Grab
Date: 01 Jan 05 - 09:24 PM

I'd refer the Bloke in the Corner to any blues or folk collection for attitude to women. The number of songs involving women and/or their lovers killed for being unfaithful is immense, so go figure. You want a positive example in rap, dwditty gave you an example of K-OS. Over in the UK, there's Ms Dynamite who's very pop but a good positive image.

FWIW, almost *everything* you'll hear on the radio is crap. How much good folk or blues did you hear on the radio last week? If you heard any, it'd be something that'd only got anywhere because there's a cute girl singing. Why do you think rap is any different?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: PennyBlack
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:43 AM

Hey we put the "C" back in rap!

PB

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:00 AM

you do understand that the majority of old delta blues music that refers to "my baby" or "big man" or "the boss" is usually a reference to god?
eg. "my baby done me wrong" = god has done me wrong. but they couldnt say it was god or their bosses who forced them to work in the cotton fields, as they would have been killed, so they changed it to their spouse as a metaphor.

Also, for most of the rest of you, music is universal, people have a right to like what they want, they dont just have to like folk and listen only to folk. music is supposed to unite us not make us have petty arguments!

and nobody can say "rap is rubbish" because there are several rap artists that were pioneers and geniuses of their art, i speak of Run-DMC, Public Enemy and Dr.Dre - most of whom sing about love and peace.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:03 AM

Rap is Rubbish.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:04 AM

Good to see a lively debate - Jacqui seems to sum it up. Almost no rap music is memorable, apart perhaps from its gruesome attitude to women. How many rap songs do You remember from, say, 1990, or even 2004? Plenty of people still listen to rock music from 30 years ago and can still sing/quote lyrics. And please, don't compare Ms Dynamite - who sang a song with her OWN NAME in it - to Aretha Franklin. Arrogance or what?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:16 AM

I have no fondness for gangsta rap with its focus on bling bling, sex, violence, disrespect for women, and homophophic lyrics.

But gangsta rap is not all rap and to DISrespect and DISregard an entire genre of music is going MUCH too far.

As to whether people are still singing and quoting rap music from the 1980s on- Yes indeed...

To cite one example: Grandmaster Flash & The Furious Five's 1982 hit "The Message" is usually ranked as the Number 1 Rap song to date. Here is the first verse & the chorus:

Broken glass everywhere
People pissing on the stairs, you know they just
Don't care
I can't take the smell, I can't take the noise
Got no money to move out, I guess I got no choice
Rats in the front room, roaches in the back
Junkie's in the alley with a baseball bat
I tried to get away, but I couldn't get far
Cause the man with the tow-truck repossessed my car

Chorus:
Don't push me, cause I'm close to the edge
I'm trying not to loose my head
It's like a jungle sometimes, it makes me wonder
How I keep from going under

end of quote

Most here probably can't relate, but since we haven't yet reached a time of heaven on earth or anything near to it, lots elsewhere can.

As to music [and other things} I say "Different strokes for different folks."

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Jukebox in the corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:30 AM

Arrogant Ignorance or what ?..?????

Out of touch with a vital and fertile world of fresh musical creativity and new traditions formthe future or what ?


Fossilised petfified folk or what ?


Pompous self important **** or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:31 AM

DJ SPELLCHECK REMIX VERSION:

Arrogant Ignorance or what ?..?????

Out of touch with a vital and fertile world of fresh musical creativity and new traditions for the future or what ?


Fossilised petrified folk or what ?


Pompous self important **** or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:32 AM

most of you say that all rap music is homophobic, pro -violence, etc etc. Shows how VERY little you know. in fact in most cases it is completely the opposite, public enemy wrote for the majority of songs about peace and the stupidity of killing others, along with NWA, and many other rap / hip-hop artists who were and still are great musicians and writers.

I dont see how any of you can say "rap is rubbish" considerring how very little you know of the institution. You all probably heard 3 songs by Eminem, and use that to judge the whole of rap. Bollocks.

and dont try and compare rap artists to others, like aretha franklin for example... they are totally different styles! its like saying whats better.. chicken or turkey? everyone has a different opinion.

There are a few rap artists, who were and always will be great, and nothing any of you say can change that fact.
If you actually knew anything of the real artists, such as Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, you may see that you are wrong.

What we have today is people who are rubbish and give rap a bad name and write crap lyrics, such as busta rhymes and all that rubbish.
and the proof they are spoiling it for the others is the narrow minded views on this thread.
People like this are to real rap music what westlife are to real rock music - a load of rubbish. people who dont write their own songs or do anything except get up there and mime, etc.

You should try researching the topic before commenting, as quotes like "all rap is rubbish" is a load of rubbish itself

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:36 AM

What?

Who?

What?

Who pompous self important ****?

Clarification urgently required!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Folk in the corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 11:50 AM

" How many rap songs do You remember from, say, 1990, or even 2004? Plenty of people still listen to rock music from 30 years ago and can still sing/quote lyrics. And please, don't compare Ms Dynamite - who sang a song with her OWN NAME in it - to Aretha Franklin. Arrogance or what? "

Bloke building barricaded comfort zone in the corner... or what ?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:05 PM

If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Azizi
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:22 PM

Kendall,

In 200 years I will come back in my new reincarnated self with my memory of previous lives intact. Then I'll telepathically connect with you and share some raps.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 12:25 PM

"If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't."

though it does help maintain the longterm profile of old dead classical composers

if they have an institutionalized wealthy power elite
with a vested interest in keeping such music and names
prominent in contemporary and future'high-brow' culture.. or what ?

.."staying power"..
will always have more to do with power base and cultural motive
of a dominant critical orthodox elite
than any 'intrinsic quality' in
the type of music under discussion [or dismissal]

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 01:59 PM

Just for the record, I stand by my remarks. Please note I used a qualifier, I never said that anyone who says they hate rap is a racist.

But there is a rather short step between xenophobia and racism.

Think about it.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 03:52 PM

"If you want to discuss staying power, consider Beethoven, Mozart, Chopin etc. Can you vision any rap that will last 200 years? I sure as hell can't"

So your argument is that there are no rap artists that exist today that will be remembered in 200 years time, therefore rap is rubbish?
well that is a pathetic argument.
just because something does not have staying power, does not mean it is not groundbreaking and good.

And anyway, artists like Run DMC etc WILL be remembered in 200 years time. Music is passed down through generation to generation and so long as people introduce their kids to the music they like, artists can now stay around forever.
This is one of the beauties of music

For gods sake, just look at how many teenagers nowadays are turning back to Led Zeppelin and real artists from over 40 years ago, not to mention young people who are fans of folk and classical music.
Do you really think in 200 years time there will not be rap artists, and fans of the great rap artists of our generation? if so i feel sorry for you, for their music has had a huge impact on the world and will continue to do so, just as Led Zeppelin will continue to do so, just as folk music will continue to do so.

Like I said, you have probably heard 3 songs from Eminem and judge all rap by that. If this is the case, your argument did not deserve a reply in the first place.

Do not think that just because you are not a fan of rap music, that there are not grounbreaking and great artists of the genre out there, all of which you will never find because you are all too narrow minded and stereotypical of the entire genre.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Mooh
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 04:52 PM

I heartily dislike rap, do everything possible to avoid it, and read these sort of discussions with amusement. Every so often some rap comes my way via a compilation cd or a referral by someone promoting it as "good" rap. Nothing has changed my mind yet...but never say never I guess. In the meantime I'm not required to acquire a taste for rap any more than I'm required to acquire a taste for squash, which I also heartily dislike.

If the foregoing makes me a dinosaur, that's fine, there aren't many of us left. Maybe we need a union.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 05:09 PM

hey Mooh..

that fair enough..

at least you're keeping an open mind..

and maybe prepared for the possibility
you may one day
be surprised to find yourself liking something
you so far have a personal aversion to..

that all anyone can ask of anyone really..


"and read these sort of discussions with amusement"

..and keeping your sense of humour in these situations
is paramount..

nice one..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Auggie
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:01 PM

Why must we "keep an open mind"?

Rap isn't anything new, not in 2005. Why are we not allowed to form an opinion about something based on what we already know. Must we each be like the government and set up our own blue ribbon extended study panel before we are allowed to discriminate between what we enjoy and what we don't?

If Rap is really that great and I miss it because my "mind is closed", what the hell is it to you? It's my loss. If anything, it's your gain because old farts like us won't drive up the price of live performances by buying up all the good seats at ridiculously inflated prices (tried buying Paul Simon or Paul McCartney tickets lately?).

I'll admit I don't know everything about rap. I don't know everything about George Bush or Tony Blair either, but I've heard enough of all three to know what I think of them.

Like the optimistic little girl confronted with the huge pile of horse manure, there may indeed be a pony in there somewhere, but I'll be damned if I'm going to spend much of my remaining free time exploring either situation.

I hope you enjoy riding your horse. Please don't be offended if some of us would rather walk.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Bloke in the Corner
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:02 PM

Excellent! Good to see real feelings and passion for different types of music. To carry on a bit, what does everyone feel about the undeniable fact that much of rap, apart from the venal and misogynistic mature of many of the songs, portrays pretty much EVERY male rap star as having a (potentially) violent attitude, and holds this up as in some way laudable? Far too many young working class (Yes, just like I grew up!) males, black and white, are given an absurd view of the world, where parroting out the songs and wearing hoodies etc. will in some way replace the need to work in the real world. The rap life (Hope you see what I mean!) is not a valid long term one for the average kid on the street.I'm tempted to say it betrays working class people, almost as if it were planned to keep them in their place by denying them chance to improve their lot.... Too much to say in one post.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: pdq
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 07:36 PM

When was the last time somebody in a black-out, lowrider Chebby pulled up beside you and blasted out Brahms at 122dB?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolk and a little bit of rap rocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:12 PM

Auggie..

"Why must we "keep an open mind"?"

errrmmm..???


sorry Auggie for being slightly sarcastic..

its born out of bemusement more than any need to be unfriendly
to anybody here..

but i genuinely dont understand much
of what you are hoping to add to this discussion..



but i somehow still get the feeling you might be one of the good guys
on this issue..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,punkfolksensitiverocker
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:16 PM

.. 2nd or 3rd day into the new year..

and i surely cant be the only one here who senses a lot of confusion
and unchilled vibes on this topic..????

happy new 2006... and at least 200 years forward into the future..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,Pa Hillbilly..
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 08:22 PM

yep.. they'm all crawling out the vittle garden on this hot arguementing..

ma.. get the shotgun..

that darn blasted grizzly bear is clambering in the window
to steal my new groovacious mo' fo' Dr Dre CD..

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 02 Jan 05 - 10:04 PM

There is a big problem that people have between not liking an artist, and whether the artist is good or not.

I do not like mozart, but the man is a genius.
I do not care much for Richard Thompson, however, I love folk music, and Thompson is also a genius. I can acknowledge this without particularly liking each persons work.

This is where people end up going wrong. They don't like rap, so every rap artist is crap. this is incorrect. If you dont like them, thats fine and is your opinion, but you cannot say they are crap.

I personally dont even like rap that much, there are maybe 3 or 4 artists who i quite like, but i know there are several who have made spectacular music with the genre.

I would also point out that I dont believe there has been a credible rap artist in the last 10 years, rap seems to have evolved into something hideous... like pop music. The majority of rap artists today shouldnt even be allowed to call themselves rap artists, and they are the equivalent of westlife in the pop world. This does not help the genre and spawns many comments like "all rappers rap about is homophobia and killing people" which has been seen in this thread.
The comment is untrue, and it is only because of modern rap that people think this.

But there are great artists out there in rap, and you all have every right to not like rap, and not seek out these artists, but you should all recognise that they are there, and not everyone in the genre is C-Rap

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:21 AM

But still no-one's answered the Big Question posed by Jacqui. Why do they hold their meat-and-two-veg all the time? Is is the funky groovy street modern version of the finger in the ear? LOL!
S:0)

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: kendall
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:34 AM

pdq, to "pull up alongside me" with ANY music BLARING, does not show good taste, only lack of manners, and a questionable I.Q.

I remember when rock and roll first hit the scene; I didn't like it then, and I detest it now so it's highly unlikely that more exposure to that type of air pollution will cause me to change my mind.That is my opinion, and no one has a right to question my IQ because of it.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:53 AM

What is the definition of rap then? Is it the foul mouthed young man in the prison baggies scratching mixes of others music or is it the modern poet quoting clever wordplay over an equaly clever electronic instrumentation? Surely, like folk, we are trying to define the undefinable.

BTW try getting hold of Mr Fox's 'Aunt Lucy Broadwood'. 1970's Folk act groundbreaking rap record? Surely not;-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 04:51 AM

Oh dear, I can't seem to let this go! I suppose what has really got to me is the accusations of racism from some of the pro-rappers out there. I also note that many of those people also appear to be both explicitly and implicitly ageist (you don't appreciate this particular musical form because you're old).
Leaving aside the question of ageism, all I'm going to say about racism is that I have always opposed it and, like the correspondent above, absolutely refuse to judge a person by the colour of their skin or their ethnic background; I will say no more for fear of being accused of protesting too much.
We members of the 'anti-rap' faction (if we can be characterised as such) are also accused of having closed minds - well please consider the following: my interests are folk song, identifying and photographing wild plants, science fiction and studying the history and cultures of the Balkan region - presumably that makes me a sad (old) git in the eyes of some of the pro-rappers. I can see a sneer forming on your lips as you read this so don't deny it! But don't worry I'm not about to demand that you try any of these things nor am I going to accuse you of having a closed mind if you don't want to try them.
Nevertheless, you may have sampled some of the things listed above and may, as a result, find that you are resolutely opposed to them - that's OK you have every right to do so. Furthermore you're not a 'thought criminal' for speaking out - please grant me the same right!

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Mooh
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 08:58 AM

Why keep an open mind? Well for me there's but two reasons. First, I'm not anxious to become any kind of prejudicial bigot, and I kind of like that "do unto others" stuff. Second, I've often found my mind can be changed about music. Banjo music for instance, I love it now where I hated it in my teens and twenties. Other acquired tastes: Pierre Bensusan, even (gasp) opera.

Mind you, the odds aren't great that rap will grab my heart, too monotonal for my liking. I don't care much for that microtonal stuff either...I guess it's the middle of the (tonal) road for me.

Peace, Mooh.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: jacqui.c
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 10:26 AM

Kendall here. Age has nothing to do with it. I find rap to be monotonous and lacking in depth. I felt the same way when I was a teenager about rock and roll.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: John C.
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:23 AM

That is exactly how I feel, Jacqi C. !

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:25 AM

Once again, I was only trying to offer a link to some rap music that I found quite enjoyable...and rap is not even in my top 10 styles of music.

Go to: K-OS and give it a try, if you care to. Click the mouse over at about the center of the graphic to open the listening station. Scroll down to the second album. Try Hallelujah or Commandante. Maybe you will be surprised...maybe not.

I guess I won't even bother to post a link to some Tuvan throat singing...another genre people love to hate. Or Joseph Spence's vocals.

dw

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:26 AM

Rats.

(a href="www.k-osmusic.com">Trying again

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: dwditty
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:27 AM

L'il help?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Weasel Books
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 11:45 AM

I was fairly of the view that rap was pretty pointless, until I heard some Senegalese. Their idea of rap is different, more lyrical, melodic, and they don't go calling their women 'bitch' either.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:28 PM

neither do Run DMC or Public Enemy. Like I said, you cannot tar the entire genre with the same brush.

"Age has nothing to do with it. I find rap to be monotonous and lacking in depth"

Again, this is because the poster knows nothing about the genre. artists such as Run DMC, Public Enemy, etc, have MUCH depth. Chuck D is a genius, no matter what your opinion on rap music is.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:41 PM

yeah, about as much depth as a crack in the sidewalk.

Rap is complete shit.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: GUEST,One who Knows
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 02:52 PM

Elvis sucks and so do those who try so hard to sound like him.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Once Famous
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:05 PM

Perhaps, but what does that have to do with rap sucking the big strap-on dildo?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Strollin' Johnny
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 03:54 PM

Does anyone know? Will they share the secret with Jacqui and me?

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Little Hawk
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:03 PM

I can't help out on this one...

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: s6k
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:05 PM

"yeah, about as much depth as a crack in the sidewalk.
Rap is complete shit."

This only goes to prove your ignorance. Tell me, how much do you know of rap music, and how many artists have you listened to? 1 maybe 2 ?

Your comment is an opinion. You have every right to think that rap is shit, and the majority of the modern stuff is.
You have no right however to make an analysis on a genre that you obviously know nothing about. Seeing as this is the case, why then do you think that just because you dislike the genre, that there can be no credible artists?

I think country music is shit, but i respect the fact that there are certain artists in that genre that are geniuses and innovators.

If you dislike rap, fine, go ahead and say that, and then leave it at that. Do not go on to try and make out that there is not a single rap artist who was ever influencial or innovative.

Subject: RE: For those who hate RAP!
From: Leadfingers
Date: 03 Jan 05 - 06:12 PM

100 ????